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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All,


My Pioneer 919AH got fried by lightning last week as did many things at my house. It is about 6 months out of warranty and amongst dealing with insurance, I am looking at a new receiver in the $500 or less range.


Through threads on this forum, I am currently looking at these 3:


Pioneer vsx 1020

Yamaha v667

Denon 1911


I am not an audiophile but can appreciate a good set up for movies and gaming. That said, you may laugh at the speakers I am hooking this up to and have used for years. I had originally bought this Sony theater in a box:

www.musiciansfriend.com/vault/sony-ht-6800dp-home-theater-in-a-box


The disc changer and receiver are long gone but I kept using the speakers and powered sub. Will the receivers I am looking at pair well with those speakers? I am also open to recommendations for speaker packages. My requirements on speakers is that I can't have floor standing ones and need smaller size satellites that I can mount near the ceiling in my living room.


Thanks in advance for the help.


-logga
 

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I'm not familiar with your Sony speakers -- the link just said satellite speakers in the spec sheet -- but I would imagine they would be standard 8ohm speakers especially since your old Sony receiver was rated for 8ohm (and 6ohm). Satellites are small and even larger, bookshelf speakers are generally 8ohm, too.


In short, any receiver you decide to buy will run your Sony speakers fine. (I really think you should upgrade your speakers, though).


Those receivers you listed are fine. Basically in choosing a receiver, decide what options are important for you but coming from your Sony receiver, I imagine any receiver would be an upgrade.


I'm not sure if you Sony had any sort of room-correction software built in, but those receiver you listed, all have them.


Pioneer has MCACC, Yamaha has YPAO, and Denon (and Onkyo) have Audyssey, which can improve the sound based on your room acoustics. Each of these room correction technologies has it's fans.


Since your budget is around $500, I'd probably bump your models up to newer models.


Like the Denon, you could look at the 1912, 1712, 2112CI. The 1912 and 211Ci have networking. The 1712 and 2112CI have MultiEQ XT, a better version of Audyssey as most mid to lower level Denon/Onkyos only have MultiEQ or 2EQ (2EQ, the lowest version of Audyssey, does not EQ your subwoofer, but unless you get a good sub, maybe this isn't a concern for you). The 2112CI is really popular among Denon fans, and while the price is over $600, many have gotten it between $400 to $500 by calling online vendors like Electronic Expo.


These Denon's dont do upscaling, so if you want that, you'd have to go to a previous year's model (or go the higher versions of this year's Denon). See the official Denon XX11 and Denon XX12 threads here.


The Onkyo RC370 is amazingly feature-rich and has MultiEQ XT for $529. If you look at the specs, it's got almost everything you'd want, except for pre-outs (edit: i'm wrong, I think it does have preouts), but I don't imagine that is important for you (adding another power amp for more power) since you are just driving satellites.


That Yamaha you listed is really popular because of it's feature and it's pre-outs. One of the cheapest receivers to have pre-outs. In your budget, you could also look at the Yamaha RX-867 which is available at Newegg.com


Same with the Pioneer, you could look at the 1121 or the VSX models like the VSX 30/31/32/33, with VSX-33 the latest.


I personally tend to prefer something with Audyssey, so I go with Denon or Onkyo as I like the room correction that it does (helped a lot in my difficult HT room), however for a 2nd system I may try another brand. If you like to tweak a lot, the Pioneers offer a ton of EQing features to customize your sound, and there are a lot of Yamaha fans here, too, especially at the prices the Yamahas are selling for now.


For speakers, post a question in the speaker forum and you'll get a lot of good advice for budget upgrades that will be way superior to your Sony speakers, (some popular suggestions are Jamo 606 (5.1 speaker set), Energy Take Classics, Infinity Primus, Ascend Acoustics 170SE/HTM200SE, etc).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Excellent. Thanks so much for the advice.


You are right, pre outs aren't a feature I'm interested in at the moment. Something I'm curious about is power ratings. Most of the receivers I listed above and some you have listed range from 90-110w rms. I'm not sure how this all factors in, but my speakers say theyre 120w max, 8 ohm. My Pioneer that just got hit is 120w rms per channel. Question is, do I need that kind of power or will a 90-100w receiver work fine? I'm quite illiterate when it comes to the minutae of rms and necessary speaker wattage.


Here is a better link (can't post urls here yet) to my original setup:

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&partNumber=HT6800DP#specifications



I'm sure my satellites are crap and I want to replace them. My current living room and wife's distaste for speakers that are too noticeable are killing me. I plan on purchasing a bic f12 ASAP to replace my sub. I'll post in the speaker forum in regards to a decent set of mountable speakers to replace what I've got. At the least, maybe I could get a good center channel and keep the satellites for now?
 

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Looks like I might be wrong about the Onkyo RC370 not having pre outs, I think it might, just like it's bigger brother TX-NR709 does, but like you said, you probably won't be interested in adding a power amp. I edited my reply.


As far as wattage, I would not be too concerned about that, especially if you plan to upgrade your speakers. That new link you gave had the speaker sensitivity rating and it's 86db, which isn't bad but not great. Higher efficiency speakers, like 89 or over 90db will use less watts and you can push your receiver to higher volume levels with less power. Most of the budget speakers that people will recommend on these forums will also happen to be 87 to 91db sensitivity, but don't get obsessed with this as speaker quality, it's build and SQ (sound quality) is most important. A 75 to 90watt receiver should be fine for you, so 110w is more than enough, unless you play really loud above reference levels, and/or have difficult speakers to drive (towers that are 4ohm instead of 8ohm), then you may want more. Most satellites and bookshelves are 8ohm and very easy to drive.


Glad to hear you are upgrading your subwoofer. BIC F12 is a popular entry-level subwoofer. I haven't heard it but I know it'll be better than your HTiB subwoofer.


In that case, since you do have a decent subwoofer, you may now want to look at receivers that can also EQ your subwoofer as the low frequencies is the most problematic range for getting good sound and every room has issues, unless you acoustically treat it.


You can get devices to EQ your subwoofer, like the Behringer Feedback Destroyer, SMS-1, Antimode 8033, etc, but for the novice, and for those who do not want to get a separate device, you can instead look for a receiver that has Audyssey, with MultiEQ or higher (MultiEQ, MultiEQ XT, MultiEQ XT32, but not 2EQ). YPAO (Yamaha) and MCACC(Pioneer) does not EQ your sub.


Subwoofer that has been EQed, manually or through Audyssey, will greatly improve your sound, imo.


Take a look at Onkyo, Denon (and Marantz and NAD but may be more expensive) and look for a model that has Audyssey MultiEQ. I have a receiver with MultiEQ XT and it really improved my sound but I have $2000+ in my speaker setup, so for budget speakers, in your case, even if you upgrade speakers, MultiEQ may be all that you need and you'll find more choices (and cheaper choices) for AVR/receivers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This sure has sparked me to think alot about what I really want from a receiver. I think I'm narrowing down my options big time.


I went and looked at what Best Buy had and got my hands on a Yamaha 671, Pioneer 1021, and Denon 1912. After getting my hands on the Denon and Yamaha, I found one aspect of them that offends my OCD nature: they only have 4 quick select buttons for inputs on them. What's more is the Yamaha only has bd/dvd, cd, TV, and radio and I just can't have my 360 or ps3 assigned as "cd" or "radio". The Denon at least had icons on it for an optical disc, game controller, TV, etc. I can deal with that. On a bad note though, if you walk up to the receiver, the Yamaha has these tiny little input forward/backward buttons on it which bothers me. I guess after getting my hands on them I started to realize how much I really like the input selector knob on my Pioneer receiver. The Denon and Onkyo at least has a button for each input but they're small hard to read and span across the whole display. Not a deal breaker, but a downer...


One big ding I have against Pioneer at this point is that they have a 1yr warranty vs 2 year from everyone else...


All that said, it made me think about why I don't use my remote more regularly. The big reason why is that my wife has this massive yet electronic constricting armoire which has wooden doors on it. Number 2 is that we have 3 young kids, one of which is 1yr old, who love pressing buttons. Because of this, we keep the receiver behind said wooden doors and got in the habit of walking up to the receiver to change the input and set the volume to what we got accustomed to for each source (-32 for directv, -42 for 360, -22 for bluray, etc.).


It would be epic if I could use my iphone or ipad to control said receivers through the network which would bypass the wooden door limit I have... found that the Pioneers have a 1st party app for that and that there are third party apps for Onkyo and Denon that give them that functionality as well.


I was considering saving some money by purchasing a 2010 model receiver, so I have been looking and found some good deals on the following receivers:


Yamaha A800 (has input knob...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggahead /forum/post/20803839


This sure has sparked me to think alot about what I really want from a receiver. I think I'm narrowing down my options big time.


I went and looked at what Best Buy had and got my hands on a Yamaha 671, Pioneer 1021, and Denon 1912. After getting my hands on the Denon and Yamaha, I found one aspect of them that offends my OCD nature: they only have 4 quick select buttons for inputs on them. What's more is the Yamaha only has bd/dvd, cd, TV, and radio and I just can't have my 360 or ps3 assigned as "cd" or "radio". The Denon at least had icons on it for an optical disc, game controller, TV, etc. I can deal with that. On a bad note though, if you walk up to the receiver, the Yamaha has these tiny little input forward/backward buttons on it which bothers me. I guess after getting my hands on them I started to realize how much I really like the input selector knob on my Pioneer receiver. The Denon and Onkyo at least has a button for each input but they're small hard to read and span across the whole display. Not a deal breaker, but a downer...


One big ding I have against Pioneer at this point is that they have a 1yr warranty vs 2 year from everyone else...


All that said, it made me think about why I don't use my remote more regularly. The big reason why is that my wife has this massive yet electronic constricting armoire which has wooden doors on it. Number 2 is that we have 3 young kids, one of which is 1yr old, who love pressing buttons. Because of this, we keep the receiver behind said wooden doors and got in the habit of walking up to the receiver to change the input and set the volume to what we got accustomed to for each source (-32 for directv, -42 for 360, -22 for bluray, etc.).


It would be epic if I could use my iphone or ipad to control said receivers through the network which would bypass the wooden door limit I have... found that the Pioneers have a 1st party app for that and that there are third party apps for Onkyo and Denon that give them that functionality as well.


I was considering saving some money by purchasing a 2010 model receiver, so I have been looking and found some good deals on the following receivers:


Yamaha A800 (has input knob...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Wow... It's so easy to get overwhelmed!!! There are so many model numbers from each manufacturer, its difficult to sort them all out!


I just looked up the Yamaha V867 like you mentioned and the A800...


As far as Pioneer goes, I think I'm settled on the Elite VSX 32. I also noticed that the Elite series has a 2 year warranty instead of 1, that's a bonus.


But jeez, I still haven't nailed down which Denon or Yamaha to decide amongst. For Onkyo, I think the RC370 that turtle mentioned earlier is my fav of those so far.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggahead /forum/post/20804508


Wow... It's so easy to get overwhelmed!!! There are so many model numbers from each manufacturer, its difficult to sort them all out!


I just looked up the Yamaha V867 like you mentioned and the A800...


As far as Pioneer goes, I think I'm settled on the Elite VSX 32. I also noticed that the Elite series has a 2 year warranty instead of 1, that's a bonus.


But jeez, I still haven't nailed down which Denon or Yamaha to decide amongst. For Onkyo, I think the RC370 that turtle mentioned earlier is my fav of those so far.

Loggahead,


No need to get overwhelmed. If you have your needs and even some of your wants straight, and are comfortable with your budget and for what (avr vs speakers) you will do fine.


Regarding warranties, Yamaha has 2 year standard.


You'll not go badly wrong by choosing last year's models from Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, or Yamaha that are now discounted to $350 to $500. All will suit you well and be a very large step up from what you are replacing.


Regarding the rx-v867, good feature set, starter capable networking reciever with wireless built in. See this thread for comments and observations.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1340354


I am not pushing it, (much) but I was quite interested in its quality and features for the buck. Then I kinda chickened out on entering the wild world of intertube thing-y music. Figured I'd wait a couple more years. Regardless, with much reading I did decide that for the current sale prices on this unit, you can absolutely not go wrong.


btw, the 867 has a multi point 3d YPAO. It is more of an automated speaker and equalizer set-up than a room correction function, but most users thought quite highly of it. The power supply and amp numbers (at 1kHz to 20kHz) are very useful for most any conceivable speaker that you'd hook-up to it.


Moving to speakers, the advice above from flyingturtle about upgrading your speakers, and doing some time on the speaker threads is right-on. There are a lot of choices, both new and used. Many threads are fun reads. My last new speakers were 8yrs ago (280/pr Atoms + CenterChannel + SW = @$800) that served as a 3.1 in our theater (Living) Room for many years. Again, with a competent AVR, you can make a legitmate sounding theater just using one wall and a SW. Since, I've upgraded but by using local used market to gain quality (albeit older) speakers and so far improved our sound substantially at approx. 1/3 price of comparable quality new.


If you can squeeze an extra 150-300 dollars into high quality 2 channel speakers up front (most likely on the used market) you will benefit greatly. You will be very surprised what those, with a good SW will sound like after you've used your automated set-up/correction function on the above AVR's. You will likely put the 5 HTIB speakers you have onto craigslist and just enjoy the "simple" life for a while.



Again, good luck.


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I just read on another thread on this forum that purchasing a Pioneer Elite from an online retailer voids the warranty!? What gives with that!?


I found the VSX-32 on Amazon for around $450 shipped, but if the warranty is void, I'll definitely pass...
 

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I just purchased a new Pioneer Elite VSX-50 at BB last week for $550. Was going to get the non-elite 1021K, but for the extra $50 bucks or so, it came with a 2 year warrenty, and just looked sharper to me. I did a sound cmapre with the Denon 2112CI and it was a tough choice. Unit has Airplay, networking, 2-zone, advanced MCACC, upscaling, blah, blah, and most importantly sounds fantastic once I got it setup in my living room and dialed in.


I probably could have found something online for less, but like mentioned here, I just didn't want to wait, or worry about warrenty hassle. Since I bought it from BB, I still have another 2-3 weeks to change my mind if something else comes along that I might like better! ;-) LOL!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbonadio /forum/post/20806435


I just purchased a new Pioneer Elite VSX-50 at BB last week for $550. Was going to get the non-elite 1021K, but for the extra $50 bucks or so, it came with a 2 year warrenty, and just looked sharper to me. I did a sound cmapre with the Denon 2112CI and it was a tough choice. Unit has Airplay, networking, 2-zone, advanced MCACC, upscaling, blah, blah, and most importantly sounds fantastic once I got it setup in my living room and dialed in.


I probably could have found something online for less, but like mentioned here, I just didn't want to wait, or worry about warrenty hassle. Since I bought it from BB, I still have another 2-3 weeks to change my mind if something else comes along that I might like better! ;-) LOL!

Wow, my FAIL-train BB doesn't stock Elite's... all they have in their Mag room is the the Denon 1912, Yam 671, and Pioneer 1021K all priced at $550...


Thanks for the link on the Pioneer retailers... So I see Amazon is listed there, but does that count for a reseller selling through Amazon? Technically I am still ordering from Amazon...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
NVM, found the fine print on the link you posted:

*Pioneer does NOT authorize any dealers to sell Elite-branded products on the Internet (only in-store sales are permitted). Therefore, any Elite-branded product purchased on the Internet is NOT authorized, which means that it does NOT carry the manufacturer's limited warranty and does not qualify for any manufacturer's rebate.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbonadio
I just purchased a new Pioneer Elite VSX-50 at BB last week for $550. Was going to get the non-elite 1021K, but for the extra $50 bucks or so, it came with a 2 year warrenty, and just looked sharper to me. I did a sound cmapre with the Denon 2112CI and it was a tough choice. Unit has Airplay, networking, 2-zone, advanced MCACC, upscaling, blah, blah, and most importantly sounds fantastic once I got it setup in my living room and dialed in.


I probably could have found something online for less, but like mentioned here, I just didn't want to wait, or worry about warrenty hassle. Since I bought it from BB, I still have another 2-3 weeks to change my mind if something else comes along that I might like better! ;-) LOL!
out of curiosity what speakers did u do the sound compare with?


I currently have a NIB VSX-31 from costco..but am contemplating picking up the SC-35 w/ ICEpower if its really the cheapest way to do so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for all the input and advice from everyone. This was a hard decision but I was finally able make my choice and purchase today!


In the final stretch I was torn between these receivers:


Yamaha V867

Yamaha V671

Onkyo RC370

Denon 1912

Denon 891

Pioneer 1020K

Pioneer 1021K


Upon much deliberation and nitpicking over minor details that ranged from aesthetics to odd features, I decided to purchase the Pioneer 1021k. I had a RewardZone coupon for 10% off any single item so I purchased the receiver for $495 +tax.


I see that Amazon is selling last year's 1020K for $370 shipped but decided on the 1021K after reading about the apparent beefier powersupply upgrade the 1021 got. All the network features I liked from all parties but after watching Pioneer's video on iControlAV2 for the ipad, I was sent over the edge. I already downloaded the app to my ipad and put it in demo mode. fingerswipe eq'ing, MCACC modification, etc. It's sick.


My current living room restrictions prevent me from any bookshelves or floor standing speakers. My living room is very open and opens up into the foyer, kitchen, and dining room + has the fireplace and mantle on an opposite wall. This limits floorspace for where I can have speakers.


I decided that for now I have to keep my 4 satellites and I would put some money in my center and sub. Like I mentioned earlier, I ordered a BIC F12 to replace my htib sub and decided to buy the Pioneer A.Jones center speaker with the receiver. I demo'ed the center speaker alongside the $280 Klipsch and definitely liked the $80 Pioneer much better! The Klipsch center came across as very shrill to me. At $80 I figured I couldn't go wrong and can sell it later should I go to something more prestigious.


Anywhoo, I decided that a Pioneer 1021K, a Pioneer A.Jones center, and a BIC F12 would be a good beginning of my theater system's evolution.
 

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If your receiver is going to be enclosed in an armoire, you need to make sure it doesn't generate too much heat. I don't know about the specific Onkyo you're interested in, but in general Onkyos run hotter than other brands.


I'm in a similar situation with 3 kids. My 3 year old likes to play with knobs, so my Onkyo receiver is locked up and it gets extremely hot and as a result it has problems. I can't use the On screen display any more. All the video outs have failed (HDMI, composite and component are all dead). Makes it very difficult to adjust anything. I don't ever play it loud and it's a big issue. If I played loud for an extended period, I wouldn't be surprised if it started a fire.


I used to have a Yamaha in the same location and it never had any issues and was much cooler.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Roger that and thanks for the advice. I had my Pioneer 919 in the same location for 2 years without a problem. I plan on adding ventilation to the armoire if I ever have an issue.
 

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I too am debating between the Yamaha v671 and Denon 2112ci. Newegg had the Yamaha for $370 last week and I didn't pull the trigger in time (had it in cart but didn't complete transaction in time). The Denon has been listed on avforums for around $450 if you call EE. I'm wondering if others think the extra $80 is worth it for the Denon 2112ci? The Denon xx12 forums have more a lot more posts/comments than Yamaha's x71's. Yet, online retail sites have more positive posts/comments for the Yamaha 671 (e.g., Amazon, who in fact has 10 reviews - 9 five stars, 1 four star. Denon 2112ci only has 5 reviews: 1 (5), 3(4), 1(3). Not sure if that means anything, yet it is curious.

I'm currently still using my Sony STRDB-930 av receiver along with Infinity 5.1 speakers (large minuette speakers and CMS-2 12" sub). Sony receiver still does a decent job but it is 12 years old.

Summary:

Is $80 extra worth it for the Denon?


And is it best to:

A) first get a new receiver to awaken my 12 year old speakers or

B) first get new speakers or

C) get new speakers and an AV receiver?
 
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