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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I recently purchased a Denon AVR 1911 Receiver and the Mirage MX 5.1 Speaker Package. I am a little underwhelmed by the speakers and it wasn't a huge step up from the three previous HTIB that I purchased. I am thinking about taking the speakers back to Best Buy and keeping the Denon Receiver. There are currently two speaker packages that I am debating on and would like some input/help with my choices. My first choice is the HSU Research Enthusiast 2 speaker set. I wasn't able to find any reviews online, but it really looks awesome and think it would be a big step up from the Mirage speakers. Here is the link: http://hsuresearch.com/products/enthusiast2.html


The second choice is the Aperion Audio Intimus 4B Harmony SD. Here is the link to this site as well: http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...16,70,265.aspx


Both of them sound like a good deal and would make a significant difference over what I have. Please let me know what you guys think. Thanks.
 

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Go with the Hsu: more capable speakers and better subwoofer. The Aperion 4B will have no bass whatsoever, due to their tiny 4" woofers. Their low frequency extension only goes down to 120 hz before rolling off, that means you have to crossover the sub that high, and such a high crossover will draw attention to the subwoofer, but not in a good way. The Aperion sub won't dig anywhere near as deep as the Hsu either; the Hsu can be set to playback down to 18 hertz, almost below human hearing- very deep bass. Aperion's Bravus 8D sub really only digs down to the mid 30 hz region (-3dB, 35Hz - 180Hz -- -6dB, 30Hz - 180Hz). This frequency gap may not sound like a lot, but believe me it is. All the problems of high-output playback extend to the center channel too, and the Hsu center with its much larger woofers and horn-loaded tweeter will walk all over the Aperion center.


I'm not trying to slam the Aperion speaker set too hard, I think it would be good for a small system, but if you can handle the larger size of the Hsu's speakers and subwoofer, you should go that way. That Aperion set was made for small bedrooms and offices, I think it would really struggle in a full size room. Note how Aperion recommends it for small rooms. A comparable system to the Hsu's from Aperion would be the 6B system. But even the 6B system has its shortcomings with respect to the Hsu system, despite costing twice as much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

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Originally Posted by shadyJ /forum/post/0


Go with the Hsu: more capable speakers and better subwoofer. The Aperion 4B will have no bass whatsoever, due to their tiny 4" woofers. Their low frequency extension only goes down to 120 hz before rolling off, that means you have to crossover the sub that high, and such a high crossover will draw attention to the subwoofer, but not in a good way. The Aperion sub won't dig anywhere near as deep as the Hsu either; the Hsu can be set to playback down to 18 hertz, almost below human hearing- very deep bass. Aperion's Bravus 8D sub really only digs down to the mid 30 hz region (-3dB, 35Hz - 180Hz -- -6dB, 30Hz - 180Hz). This frequency gap may not sound like a lot, but believe me it is. All the problems of high-output playback extend to the center channel too, and the Hsu center with its much larger woofers and horn-loaded tweeter will walk all over the Aperion center.


I'm not trying to slam the Aperion speaker set too hard, I think it would be good for a small system, but if you can handle the larger size of the Hsu's speakers and subwoofer, you should go that way. That Aperion set was made for small bedrooms and offices, I think it would really struggle in a full size room. Note how Aperion recommends it for small rooms. A comparable system to the Hsu's from Aperion would be the 6B system. But even the 6B system has its shortcomings with respect to the Hsu system, despite costing twice as much.

Thank you for the info. I have a couple questions for you though. Firstly, do you think that there will be a noticeable difference from Mirage MX 5.1 speakers to the HSU Speakers and sub? Also, I currently have my Subwoofers Crossover at 150hz. Is that too high? Lastly, what I'm really looking for more than anything is nice, clean, clear sound. Will the HSU speakers provide that and not just more power? Thanks again.
 

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There will be a big difference between the Mirage system and Hsu system, in clarity, power handling, sound character, and output ability.


To begin with, compare the designs of the speakers: the Mirage speakers diffuses sound all over the place with its "Omnipolar technology". A consequence of this is it takes a lot more power and mechanical exertion to get loud at the listening position because so much energy is dumped into spraying the sound everywhere else in the room. This is a good design for creating background noise, but horrible for a dynamic, clear, direct listening experience. The Hsu's take an opposite approach: the sound is directed in a much more narrow pattern of coverage toward the listener, just take a look at the horn-loaded tweeter. Then there is the drivers: compare the Mirage MX' 5/8" tweeter and 2 1/2" woofer vs the Hsu HB-1's 1" tweeter and 6.5" woofer. To sum all that up, the Mirage's already less capable drivers have to work even harder to achieve the same loudness as the Hsu's. It's like racing a corvette vs a hyundai over a distance of a mile, but the Hyundai's mile long track is all uphill while the Corvette's track goes downhill!


Then there is the matter of comparing the subwoofers. Now things will really get brutal for the Mirage system. The Mirage MM-6 subwoofer only reaches down to 42 hz according to its specs. By Hsu's definition, this is not even a subwoofer, it is a mid-bass module. Seriously, compare it's frequency response to the Hsu's mid-bass module, the MBM-12, which Hsu does not consider or market as a true subwoofer. Against the VTF2, which is the sub in the package you are considering, the Mirage sub is hilariously outmatched in every possible performance metric. The only drawback with the Hsu sub is it is a much larger than the MM-6, so take a look at it's measurements and make sure you have room for it- it's about as big as an endtable. Some users have it double for an endtable next to their seating, as there is many advantages in near-field subwoofer placement.


But, of course, this is an apples to oranges comparison, the Mirages are much cheaper and were designed to be unintrusive. Their only performance goal is to be noticeably better than built-in TV speakers. The Hsu's were designed to get a high ratio of audio performance for the dollar, however the drawback to this is they are a lot larger, a lot heavier, and they are only available from the manufacturer's website. In other words, the Mirages were made to accommodate to you, but the Hsu's expect you to accommodate to it. If you decide on the Hsu system and want to mount the speakers, make sure your speaker mounts are rated to hold the 15 lbs weight of the HB-1s. One mount I strongly recommend is the AM40 Pinpoint side-clamping speaker mounts, they are the only mounts I know of that can support that weight without needing you to drill holes in your speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ /forum/post/0


There will be a big difference between the Mirage system and Hsu system, in clarity, power handling, sound character, and output ability.


To begin with, compare the designs of the speakers: the Mirage speakers diffuses sound all over the place with its "Omnipolar technology". A consequence of this is it takes a lot more power and mechanical exertion to get loud at the listening position because so much energy is dumped into spraying the sound everywhere else in the room. This is a good design for creating background noise, but horrible for a dynamic, clear, direct listening experience. The Hsu's take an opposite approach: the sound is directed in a much more narrow pattern of coverage toward the listener, just take a look at the horn-loaded tweeter. Then there is the drivers: compare the Mirage MX' 5/8" tweeter and 2 1/2" woofer vs the Hsu HB-1's 1" tweeter and 6.5" woofer. To sum all that up, the Mirage's already less capable drivers have to work even harder to achieve the same loudness as the Hsu's. It's like racing a corvette vs a hyundai over a distance of a mile, but the Hyundai's mile long track is all uphill while the Corvette's track goes downhill!


Then there is the matter of comparing the subwoofers. Now things will really get brutal for the Mirage system. The Mirage MM-6 subwoofer only reaches down to 42 hz according to its specs. By Hsu's definition, this is not even a subwoofer, it is a mid-bass module. Seriously, compare it's frequency response to the Hsu's mid-bass module, the MBM-12, which Hsu does not consider or market as a true subwoofer. Against the VTF2, which is the sub in the package you are considering, the Mirage sub is hilariously outmatched in every possible performance metric. The only drawback with the Hsu sub is it is a much larger than the MM-6, so take a look at it's measurements and make sure you have room for it- it's about as big as an endtable. Some users have it double for an endtable next to their seating, as there is many advantages in near-field subwoofer placement.


But, of course, this is an apples to oranges comparison, the Mirages are much cheaper and were designed to be unintrusive. Their only performance goal is to be noticeably better than built-in TV speakers. The Hsu's were designed to get a high ratio of audio performance for the dollar, however the drawback to this is they are a lot larger, a lot heavier, and they are only available from the manufacturer's website. In other words, the Mirages were made to accommodate to you, but the Hsu's expect you to accommodate to it. If you decide on the Hsu system and want to mount the speakers, make sure your speaker mounts are rated to hold the 15 lbs weight of the HB-1s. One mount I strongly recommend is the AM40 Pinpoint side-clamping speaker mounts, they are the only mounts I know of that can support that weight without needing you to drill holes in your speakers.

Thanks for the in depth explanation. That pretty much just sealed the deal SHU System. One more question if u don't mind. I was looking at pictures for the speaker set and noticed alot of inputs on the back of the subwoofer. Some of the inputs I noticed were for the speakers. Would I still run the speakers and sub into my Receiver, or would I run the speakers into the sub and then the sub into the receiver. Just need some clarification. Thanks
 

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You can do either, but it's recommended that you use the line level RCA inputs using the AVR's subwoofer out jack. If you connect the subwoofer via speaker wire, you can not use the receiver's crossover. I would try to avoid connecting the sub by using speaker wire. The manual will explain it. By the way, don't go out to buy a expensive "subwoofer cable", all those cables are is RCA cables. Any $2 RCA cable will work, and so-called "subwoofer cable" is a scam.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ /forum/post/19567416


You can do either, but it's recommended that you use the line level RCA inputs using the AVR's subwoofer out jack. If you connect the subwoofer via speaker wire, you can not use the receiver's crossover. I would try to avoid connecting the sub by using speaker wire. The manual will explain it. By the way, don't go out to buy a expensive "subwoofer cable", all those cables are is RCA cables. Any $2 RCA cable will work, and so-called "subwoofer cable" is a scam.

Shady, sorry for the confusion. My question is about the actual speakers that come with the HSU Package. Will I connect the HSU Speakers into my reeceiver or into the Subwoofer? Thanks.
 

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The sensitivity difference is this; If one has a 130w/ch. receiver, at any given operational spl, the HSUs would require approx 20 watts, the Aperions approx the full output of 130w. That's how significant the sensitivity difference is between these two models.


This is merely one measurable parameter, however with the dynamic range associated with HT, sensitivity is very important.


Perhaps one would argue that either speaker gets as loud as one would ever care for. Ok, the max the Aperion could produce is about 105 db w the 130w receiver. When a speaker system operates in excess of about 10% rated power, compression begins. There are two types of compression, power compression, and the lesser discussed magnetic flux compression. Just consider power compression. Now at full rated power, compression artifacts are full tilt and very significant. The voice coil heats up, the output level drops by several db. Transients are muted and squashed and the entire presentation is muddied up, slowed and thickened. It's typically not an offensive type of distortion, it just removes all sharp detail and renders the presentation lifeless. There are additional frequency based changes as well.


A speaker with a higher sensitivity, operating primarily within it's linear range retains an apparent quickness, and much more realistic dynamic portrayal of the material. Transients have a better leading edge, and a dynamic snap that is more natural than a compressed signal.


Good luck
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy /forum/post/0



Shady, sorry for the confusion. My question is about the actual speakers that come with the HSU Package. Will I connect the HSU Speakers into my reeceiver or into the Subwoofer? Thanks.

Your receiver provides connections to all speakers and sub. Do not forget to disable any filters/bass management in sub, since receiver will do this job for you. Use Audyssey setup to fine tune your system when you put it in place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
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Originally Posted by shadyJ
If you decide on the Hsu system and want to mount the speakers, make sure your speaker mounts are rated to hold the 15 lbs weight of the HB-1s. One mount I strongly recommend is the AM40 Pinpoint side-clamping speaker mounts, they are the only mounts I know of that can support that weight without needing you to drill holes in your speakers.
I found the AM40 Mounting Bracket for the front left/right and surround left/right. What Mounting Bracket would you guys recommend for the Center Channel that comes with this HSU Speaker Package? Thanks.
 

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I don't know much about center channel mounts, I have always improvised my own there, sorry. I guess it depends on your setup, is the center going below or above the screen you will be watching? Will it have to be mounted on the wall, or the floor, or will it rest on a shelf? Make sure that the center speaker is 'aimed' at the listeners ear level.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ /forum/post/19569600


I don't know much about center channel mounts, I have always improvised my own there, sorry. I guess it depends on your setup, is the center going below or above the screen you will be watching? Will it have to be mounted on the wall, or the floor, or will it rest on a shelf? Make sure that the center speaker is 'aimed' at the listeners ear level.

The center speaker is going above my tv. The way my room is setup, I have to mount the center speaker higher than all of the other speakers because my tv is right in front of three big windows. So I have to mount the speaker above the window and curtain. About 8-9 feet off of the ground. I'm sure I can improvise somehow. I just wasn't sure if the same bracket was available for Center Speakers. Thanks.
 
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