[ickysmits]

I need some help figuring out my best option. I’m 25 miles from the broadcast towers on Mt. Wilson and I can’t pick up VHF channels with rabbit ears indoors (7, 9, 11, & 13) even though I'm right in the heart of a major metropolitan market. My TVFool data is attached. I have a big window facing in the right direction and I want to put something up that will do much better. I’d rather not drill holes and put an antenna outside so I’m looking for my best option to hang in my window (and cover with a curtain).


I originally wanted to hang a big antenna in the window but I learned in another thread about how I’d need to consider the polarizations used by the local stations – i.e. many VHF antennas need to be mounted horizontally or they don’t work properly. This is a report I got from another member:


CBS 2 [43] -> Horizontal

NBC 4 [36] -> Elliptical

KTLA 5 [31] -> Elliptical

KABC 7 [7] -> Circular

KCAL 9 [9] -> Circular

KTTV 11 [11] -> Horizontal or Elliptical (Requires upgrade)

KCOP 13 [13] -> Horizontal or Elliptical (Requires upgrade)

KCET 28 [28] -> Horizontal

KOCE 50 [48] -> Horizontal


So I came across the Winegard HD-1080 and it seems like my best bet so far. It was intended to be mounted vertically (and it would fit perfectly in my window) but I’ve been reading some poor reports on its ability to receive high VHF. I’m wondering if there’s anything better for my situation or if I should give it a go for $30.


Please, any input is appreciated. Thanks!


EDIT: No matter what the TVFool report says, a "set-top" antenna is NOT sufficient to pick up high VHF channels. I've tried so many ways to pick up these channels, 9, 11, & 13 in particular, it's practically impossible for me even though there's only a two story building standing in the way of my LOS. I live on on a 'kind of' hill - or - I'm in a better situation than most Los Angelinos in the LA basin for LOS to the broadcast towers. I'm on the 'Westside' if that matters.

 

[coyoteaz]

Is putting an antenna in the attic an option? You could try a CM4228HD in the window since it's relatively shallow, but you'd probably be better off with a Winegard HD7694P in the attic.

 

[ickysmits]

Thanks for the reply.


I don't have an attic, I live in a condo and that antenna is too big for my window.


The 7694 looks good but I really have no way to mount an antenna horizontally.

 

[ProjectSHO89]

Have you tried placing your rabbit ears on the inside window glass with suction cups? Extend the elements about 29-31 inches tip-to-tip and lay the elements flat as a a starting point.


Lets also talk about window construction that sucks the power out of any signal that might be there: Known concerns include aluminum or metal frames or grilles, aluminum screening, and metallic low-E coating. Metal affects the signal in various ways, most of which are not helpful for getting a high-VHF signal into your living area.


If you have aluminum screens or metallic grilles, try positioning the dipole 12-16 inches in FRONT (suspended outside) of the screen and use it as a reflector.


Another idea would be to construct one of the high-VHF loop antennas that holl_ands posted details about. You might even partially clone the front element of a C5 using 1/2" copper pipe.


I might try to make a cloned C5 front section to play with. I'll have to see what's in my plumbing box as far as tees and elbows.


Just a few ideas....

 

[Digital Rules]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ickysmits /forum/post/16899400


So I came across the Winegard HD-1080 and it seems like my best bet so far. It was intended to be mounted vertically (and it would fit perfectly in my window) but I've been reading some poor reports on its ability to receive high VHF. I'm wondering if there's anything better for my situation or if I should give it a go for $30.

I'd give the 1080 a try. It should work down to around -50dbm with a channel 7 LOS signal. It works even better as you get closer to channel 13.

 

[arxaw]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ickysmits /forum/post/16899400


...EDIT: No matter what the TVFool report says, a "set-top" antenna is NOT sufficient to pick up high VHF channels. I've tried so many ways to pick up these channels, 9, 11, & 13 in particular, it's practically impossible for me...

VHF is often much harder to pick up indoors, due to building materials stopping signal penetration and/or interference from a host of electrical/electronic noisemakers in the home that can kill DTV on VHF. Nearby FM stations can also hurt VHF reception. Have you tried adding an FM trap?


I'm on a hilltop and can get UHF stations 65+ miles away with only an indoor un-amped loop antenna . But I have not found a VHF antenna (purchased or home made) that will work for me indoors. I'm sure it's foil-backed foamboard in my walls & Low-E glass in the windows stopping my indoor VHF reception.

 

[Falcon_77]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ickysmits /forum/post/16899400


I originally wanted to hang a big antenna in the window but I learned in another thread about how I’d need to consider the polarizations used by the local stations – i.e. many VHF antennas need to be mounted horizontally or they don’t work properly.

The polarization types you have listed do not appear to correspond with how you want to mount the antenna.


The issue here that that you don't appear to want a "boom" antenna, such as Yagi's, which are designed to lay flat (as respects the long length, with the small part pointed towards the transmitters), vs. bow-tie class antennas, which are designed to be mounted like a billboard, facing the transmitters.


This is a separate issue than horizontal vs. vertical polarization. For example, both a bow-tie and a Yagi are horizontally polarized, unless they are tilted on their sides. (e.g. a 90 degree tilt will make them vertically polarized)


As you have discovered, however, most VHF antennas are of the "boom" style. I made a VHF bow-tie, but its dimensions do not make it practical indoors (outside of an attic).


The FM trap idea is a good one.


I have a Winegard HD-1080, but found its VHF performance lacking. It seems to be no better than rabbit-ears, for upper VHF.


A CM4228 would be better if you want a billboard type antenna, but it will be bigger than many windows.


VHF works better with attic and/or outdoor antennas higher up. However, that doesn't describe the majority of OTA antenna situations. I lost KABC/7 at the office as of 6/12. There's really nothing I can do indoors to change this. I'd have to mount an antenna on the roof of the office building. I came up with a different solution. I don't watch KABC/7 here. At least here, 9-13 work on the 4221, however.

 

[arxaw]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 /forum/post/16901112


...I came up with a different solution. I don't watch KABC/7 here.

Same solution here. It's too much trouble to run a coax from my outdoor antenna, just to watch a couple of VHFs that my one indoor antenna TV can't decode.


I think the stations that made the VHF mistake have lost a lot of viewers who do not have the option of an outdoor antenna. Hopefully, many stations will vacate the band. Or if they have a sister UHF station, simulcast the troublesome VHF station on it in SD, on a low bitrate sub channel, for people stuck with indoor antennas.

 

[ickysmits]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, I really appreciate ya’ll taking the time to type something out.


A few people mentioned FM traps – that sounds like something worth checking out and I think every little bit helps. I should mention that, using the signal meter on my TV, I think I’m just on the verge of receiving the high VHF channels I’m missing. The meter on the TV doesn’t seem consistent (it looks like some UHF channels require less strength than VHF) but the VHF signals I’m getting is at 50% and switches from red (bad) to green (good). I really don’t know what the proper strength should be for my TV tuner but I feel like I’m on the edge of a reliable signal without having to fuss – I can just about get 11.1 on a good day.


I know it’s difficult to suggest something when every situation is different but I’m looking for options that I can’t find. The Winegard HD-1080 is the only thing I’ve found that might work for me but I’m looking for a better spec‘ed antenna. Unfortunately, I think the CM4228 would be too bulky for me. I’m just going to try the 1080 and see what happens.


Thanks for the information!

 

[arxaw]

Some stations on VHF are giving away FM traps. You might call and see if yours are.


I have found that the Winegard HD-1080 is not much better than most dipoles are for VHF reception.


Any antenna installed outdoors usually helps improve VHF significantly. There are too many noise-producing devices indoors that can easily kill VHF.