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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a dilemma with my setup and could use some advice and another set of eyes. I'm trying to figure out the best side surround speaker setup. The problem with the room is that it has about a 16 inch soffit on three walls and a larger soffit extending from the rear wall of about 6 feet. The room is about 13 by 19. The soffits are at 8 feet. The main part of the ceiling is 9 feet. The first row seating (head position) is at 11 feet and the rear row around 17 feet (not ideal, I realize). I have windows that will be covered (drywall over them) and a door to deal with. I don't plan on columns because of the room is narrow. I'm pretty much going with in-walls for the real speakers and will probably have to go with in-ceilings for the sides. I'm torn between putting them in the soffit (not as easy as it sounds due to wires, ductwork and framing in the way) or in the main ceiling. Not really ideal for the second row because of the soffit. I've included a few pictures to give you an idea of the dilemma. Any suggestions? I really don't want on-walls either, I would like them completely hidden.

http://images10.fotki.com/v208/photo...rrounds-vi.jpg


Back walls photos:
http://images10.fotki.com/v209/photo...CP_2237-vi.jpg
http://images10.fotki.com/v209/photo...CP_2238-vi.jpg


Thanks for your help in advance.


Bud
 

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This will not be a solution to your problem, but I would suggest considering>

to try and keep all the surrounds and center on the same elevation plane..


Sounds like you have ruled out speaker stands and midfield size monitors..

the same with "wall speaker mounts", or suspended the midfields from the soffet

area.


Again it sounds like you want to mount "in wall" .


Just thought I would try anyway :)


thomas
 

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Bud,


See attached diagram for typical 7.1-speaker layout.


If you are going to use in-ceiling speakers for the sides, I have a couple of recommendations. Side speakers should go directly to the sides of the sweet spot. In your particular situation, I would place them in line with the first row of seats and spread them as far apart as possible. This will make the speakers sound more like they're high upon the side walls and less like they are above the listeners. Also, try to get in-ceilings that have pointable tweeters and aim them at the listeners.


For the rears, you can use in-wall or in-ceiling speakers. Since our human hearing is not very good behind our heads, the rears don't have to be the same exact height as the sides. Still, it doesn't hurt to get them close to the same height. With in-walls, that would mean getting them up nearer to the ceiling. If you go with in-ceilings, get them as far back as possible (as with the sides, you want the rears to sound like they are behind you, not above).


One final suggestion for the rear speakers. If you look at the diagram, you'll notice that the rears are at least 60 degrees apart. This wide spread will allow you to hear the stereo-rear effect of 7.1 processing such as PLIIx. The easy way to figure out this spread is by measuring to the back wall and multiplying by 1.2 to get the distance apart. For example: if the rear wall is 8 feet from the sweet spot, then the rear speakers should be at least 9.5 feet apart.


Good Luck,

Sanjay
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrunet
This will not be a solution to your problem, but I would suggest considering>

to try and keep all the surrounds and center on the same elevation plane..


Sounds like you have ruled out speaker stands and midfield size monitors..

the same with "wall speaker mounts", or suspended the midfields from the soffet

area.


Again it sounds like you want to mount "in wall" .


Just thought I would try anyway :)


thomas
Thomas,


Thanks for the info. Basically I'm trying to conceal the speakers without using columns. I thought about trying to install inwalls above the door, but I have limited space.


Bud
 

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Bud,
Quote:
Where is the 60 degress coming from?
If you look at the diagram again, you'll notice that it's laid out like a circle: zero degrees is directly in front, +/- 90 degrees is at the sides, and +/- 180 degrees is directly behind. On that circle, the rear speakers are placed at the +/- 150 degree points. That puts each rear speaker about 30 degrees off the centre line, which means the rear speakers are roughly 60 degrees apart.
Quote:
I assume you mean if I drew a line from the center of the sweet spot to each rear speaker location, that would angle would be be at least 60 degrees?
Exactly! The rear speakers would be 60 degrees apart (30 degrees off the centre line) and the side speakers would be 180 degrees apart (90 degrees/perpendicular to the centre line). Basically you can think of the 4 surround speakers as being placed evenly around a semi-circle (every 60 degrees). The semi-circle in this case is rear hemisphere of the layout; i.e., the surround field.


Best,

Sanjay
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sanjay,


I meant to include this in my other response, but work interferred, so I'll run this past you now if you don't mind. BTW, my last past I edited since my English left me momentarily and even I had a hard time reading it! Again, distractions to the left and right of me.


I will be building a proscenium/stage and plan on purchasing Ascend 340s for the LCR. One reason why I'm struggling with the inwalls/ceilings is that I'm trying to match the Ascends as closely as possible for the surrounds. Ascend does not make inwalls/incelings. I really don't want to do onwalls (obviously), so I contacted Acend and they recommend matching their speakers with Sonance S622TRs . Aren't these considered monopoles? These are the speakers I plan on using for my inceiling side surrounds. I'm OK with these, although I have not heard them. I'm also considering for the rear the Sonance Cinema Surrounds which are monopoles. Are monopoles the way to go for the rear? I know its popular to use Dipoles on the sides and Bipoles in the rear, but I'm clueless when it comes to monopoles. Thoughts?


Thanks,

Bud
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sanjay,


On a related subject, I was reading some information on the Dolby site specifically for PLIIx and Dolby Digital EX. It actually calls our monopoles for the rear speakers for DD EX. Unfortunately, it does not specifiy the type of speaker for PLIIx. I thought I saw another post/poll of yours that you stated you have monopoles both side and rear. Are you setup for DPLIIx?


Bud
 

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Bud,
Quote:
I contacted Acend and they recommend matching their speakers with Sonance S622TRs. Aren't these considered monopoles?
Yes, they're monopoles. Judging from the specs and the recommendation from Ascend, the S622TRs look like a pretty good choice.
Quote:
I'm also considering for the rear the Sonance Cinema Surrounds which are monopoles. Are monopoles the way to go for the rear?
I prefer monopoles for the rear because they're not diffuse, like bipoles or dipoles. This helps listeners to localize the surround-back channels as being firmly behind them and even give some stereo imaging back there (again, PLIIx). Some of these qualities may end up being blurred by more diffuse speakers.


With that in mind, I would reconsider the Cinema Surrounds because of their dual tweeters, which are angled in different directions to create a more diffuse and ambient sound. Instead I'd get another pair of S622TRs and mount them way back on the ceiling or higher up on the rear wall; again, with their tweeters aimed at the listening area.
Quote:
I know its popular to use Dipoles on the sides and Bipoles in the rear...
The choice of dipoles, bipole or monopole surrounds comes down to logistics and, more importantly, personal taste.


The only time I suggest dipoles is for narrow listening rooms, where the side walls will be near the listeners on either end of the row. Nothing more distracting than having a speaker blaring at you literally a couple of feet from one of your ears. For situations like that, Dipoles work better because the null (quiet zone) in their radiation pattern can be aimed at the listeners. This way, they hear mostly reflected sound instead of direct sound.


If the side speakers will be a decent distance away, then bipoles or monopoles will be fine. For 5.1 set-ups, bipoles may work better because they can provide a more enveloping sound than monopoles. For 7.1 set-ups, you have speakers at your sides and speakers behind you, so you'll get good wrap-around envelopment no matter what type of speakers you use.


I've seen set-ups that use dipoles for sides and rears and systems that have monopoles all around, as well as systems that combine different types of surround speakers. The owner of the all-dipole set-up liked the diffuse and ambient sound with movies but absolute loved that sound when listening to classical music in surround. What can I say, the giant blur of a surround field was not my cup o'tea. But like I said, it comes down to personal taste and whatever makes the listener happy.


Bottom line: there are no hard-n-fast rules when choosing side or rear surround speakers.
Quote:
I thought I saw another post/poll of yours that you stated you have monopoles both side and rear.
Correct. Actually, same speaker at all 7 locations. I use my system primarily for listening to music in surround. After trying different types of surround speakers, I ended up settling on monopoles all around. Having 4 surrounds firing at me at the same time gave me all the diffusion I wanted. And the monopole design gave me the pinpoint imaging I like in the surround field. Personal taste; can't stress that enough.
Quote:
Are you setup for DPLIIx?
Not yet, but soon. My processor uses LOGIC7 for its 7.1-channel processing, but a recently announced software upgrade is going to give me PLIIx finally.


Best,

Sanjay
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sanjay,


Thanks. I was in denial. The Ascend folks said to use a second pair of S622TRs for the rear as well. I decided to take your advice (and Ascends) and get the second pair. This also gives me a little more flexibilty as far as placement, since I have obstruction in the soffit and do have to contend with some issues in the walls. I can easily pull (move) the wire for the rear surrounds. This also gives me all the surrounds at the same height which is what you and Thomas recommended, as well as spacing them correctly in the rear.


Thanksf rou your help guys!


Bud
 
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