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Hi Everyone, I'm still a newb at the subwoofer game, and was hoping you could provide some guidance on how I should go about purchasing the right subs and placing them in my limited room.

I can really only put 2 subs on the front sound stage inside the L/R speakers or one in the front right corner (unless you can find a better spot per my floorplan)

My listening habits are 60% Music/40% HT, so I need subs that can do both well. I was looking at Rythmik, HSU, PSA and SVS based on general consensus on this forum. I'm not looking for earth shaking bass, but I want enough to provide an impactful HT experience with action movies while still being musical and accurate for music.

I attached a floorplan of my space and if you take the kitchen into acct (there is a U-shaped wall in between though), the cubic area is approx 3400 cubed feet. Without the kitchen, its 2500 cubed feet.
My Budget is 2000, but if it was less then great.

Can you guys give me guidance on the following?

1 or 2 subs?
Sealed or ported?
Which model and brand
Where in the room should I place them?

Thank in advance!
 

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Order an SB-2000 or PB-2000 from SVS, a UMIK/UMM6 and install REW. Use the SVS sub to do measurements at all the possible locations. I see about 5 different locations that are worth testing and at each location you will want to measure 4 different times changing the orientation of the sub each time.


Then send the sub back for a full refund (you don't even have to pay return shipping). At that point you will have much more data and experience with subs in your space and it will be easier to make an educated choice.


EDIT: to make Imureh happy, you might very well like the SVS sub and decide to keep it. It is difficult to know what you are going to want/need until you have something in your room.
 

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Order an SB-2000 or PB-2000 from SVS, a UMIK/UMM6 and install REW. Use the SVS sub to do measurements at all the possible locations. I see about 5 different locations that are worth testing and at each location you will want to measure 4 different times changing the orientation of the sub each time.


Then send the sub back for a full refund (you don't even have to pay return shipping). At that point you will have much more data and experience with subs in your space and it will be easier to make an educated choice.
This is the reason many of the companies have started charging return shipping. If one has absolutely no intention of keeping the sub they are buying and are just using it as a proxy for another purchase, that is pretty crappy in my opinion. You can argue SVS knows this and all but ethically ask if its appropriate. I am sure SVS had no intention to provide their subs to people only for testing purposes and then return them only to by another...
 

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This is the reason many of the companies have started charging return shipping. If one has absolutely no intention of keeping the sub they are buying and are just using it as a proxy for another purchase, that is pretty crappy in my opinion. You can argue SVS knows this and all but ethically ask if its appropriate. I am sure SVS had no intention to provide their subs to people only for testing purposes and then return them only to by another...

Or people fall in love with the product and keep it.
 

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Or people fall in love with the product and keep it.
You were really not making a recommendation for SVS based on this person's need but rather for them to use it as a test. Read your post again...
 

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Hi Everyone, I'm still a newb at the subwoofer game, and was hoping you could provide some guidance on how I should go about purchasing the right subs and placing them in my limited room.

I can really only put 2 subs on the front sound stage inside the L/R speakers or one in the front right corner (unless you can find a better spot per my floorplan)

My listening habits are 60% Music/40% HT, so I need subs that can do both well. I was looking at Rythmik, HSU, PSA and SVS based on general consensus on this forum. I'm not looking for earth shaking bass, but I want enough to provide an impactful HT experience with action movies while still being musical and accurate for music.

I attached a floorplan of my space and if you take the kitchen into acct (there is a U-shaped wall in between though), the cubic area is approx 3400 cubed feet. Without the kitchen, its 2500 cubed feet.
My Budget is 2000, but if it was less then great.

Can you guys give me guidance on the following?

1 or 2 subs?
Sealed or ported?
Which model and brand
Where in the room should I place them?

Thank in advance!
Best bang for your buck and what you are after will be the HSU VTF-15H duals
 
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You were really not making a recommendation for SVS based on this person's need but rather for them to use it as a test. Read your post again...

I'm no mind reader. I don't know what people will love or what they won't. Many folks love SVS products. Please stay on topic.
 

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I'm no mind reader. I don't know what people will love or what they won't. Many folks love SVS products. Please stay on topic.

Come on man. Admit what you said. You are encouraging people to use SVS as a testing ground and then have the audacity to tell me to stay on topic.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the suggestions so far, didn't mean to cause any controversy. I wouldn't mind trying the SVS subs with the intention of keeping them.
I do like the idea of a sealed sub like a SB2000 Pro because of the small footprint and WAF factor. Could I get the sound I'm after with this or maybe dual 15" sealed subs like the HSU ULS-15 MK2 or Rythmik E15/F15HP?

@badtlc , which other spots do you see for placement?
 

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What are your current L/R speakers?
Do you have a center channel speaker, or would you consider one?

Subs should probably not be thought of as speakers as L/R pairs, unless you want mid-bass (that you can localize) to help the front speakers. For LFE, it's more about "evenness" of low-frequency across the room.
Because the viewing area isn't enclosed, you have to count all the open space for the sub. That not only includes the kitchen, but upstairs as well, since the staircase is wide open.
That said, you probably can't get a set of subs that can affect the whole house for $2K, so you could focus on affecting the viewers by proximity to the sub(s).

The top right corner is probably a good place for 1 sub for LFE, as the corner walls can reflect energy back to the room.
Does the couch offer room underneath for a low-profile subwoofer to go directly under the seating position? They don't need to be very powerful to feel the effect that close.
Also, does the table to the right of MLP have enough height to put a slim sub underneath?
Finally, would you be open to the idea of having a sub made as furniture to supplement or replace anything else in the room?
If you look at the DIY forum, you'll see that people have made VBSS and Mini Marty tables. I'm sure there are other ideas as well.

For music, if your current speakers have trouble handling low frequency sounds, you might consider adding subs as L/R mid-bass modules to help.
If you'd consider this, you'd need a way to cut the low frequencies from going to the speakers, so an in-line high-pass filter could be considered.

If not 2 big subs, 1 big sub for LFE and a pair for music can be had under your budget.

Hi Everyone, I'm still a newb at the subwoofer game, and was hoping you could provide some guidance on how I should go about purchasing the right subs and placing them in my limited room.
I can really only put 2 subs on the front sound stage inside the L/R speakers or one in the front right corner (unless you can find a better spot per my floorplan)

My listening habits are 60% Music/40% HT, so I need subs that can do both well. I was looking at Rythmik, HSU, PSA and SVS based on general consensus on this forum. I'm not looking for earth shaking bass, but I want enough to provide an impactful HT experience with action movies while still being musical and accurate for music.
 

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Best bang for your buck and what you are after will be the HSU VTF-15H duals
A pair of HSU VTF-15H is closer to $2,100 and it doesn't have a small footprint. For several hundreds less I would consider the HSU VTF 3 MK5 and also has a smaller footprint.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
What are your current L/R speakers?
Do you have a center channel speaker, or would you consider one?

Subs should probably not be thought of as speakers as L/R pairs, unless you want mid-bass (that you can localize) to help the front speakers. For LFE, it's more about "evenness" of low-frequency across the room.
Because the viewing area isn't enclosed, you have to count all the open space for the sub. That not only includes the kitchen, but upstairs as well, since the staircase is wide open.
That said, you probably can't get a set of subs that can affect the whole house for $2K, so you could focus on affecting the viewers by proximity to the sub(s).

The top right corner is probably a good place for 1 sub for LFE, as the corner walls can reflect energy back to the room.
Does the couch offer room underneath for a low-profile subwoofer to go directly under the seating position? They don't need to be very powerful to feel the effect that close.
Also, does the table to the right of MLP have enough height to put a slim sub underneath?
Finally, would you be open to the idea of having a sub made as furniture to supplement or replace anything else in the room?
If you look at the DIY forum, you'll see that people have made VBSS and Mini Marty tables. I'm sure there are other ideas as well.

For music, if your current speakers have trouble handling low frequency sounds, you might consider adding subs as L/R mid-bass modules to help.
If you'd consider this, you'd need a way to cut the low frequencies from going to the speakers, so an in-line high-pass filter could be considered.

If not 2 big subs, 1 big sub for LFE and a pair for music can be had under your budget.
My L/R speakers are JBL Studio 530's. I don't have a center right now but will definitely be adding one.

I had a feeling that placing the subs on L/R on the front wouldnt be best for room response. Front right and maybe one more spot would be better. I dont hate the idea of Putting a slim sub under the table to the left of the MLP. Would maybe a Rythmik L22 on its side do ok there? I guess I would need an identical one for the front right corner?
I never considered DIY, but the VBSS offerings look very interersting. I'm not very handy, but maybe I can gt some friends help.
I may have some room under the couch (sectional with 3 recliners), but not sure which subs will fit under there. Is thee a link I can research?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
A pair of HSU VTF-15H is closer to $2,100 and it doesn't have a small footprint. For several hundreds less I would consider the HSU VTF 3 MK5 and also has a smaller footprint.
Agreed, the VTF3 MK5 would be a more acceptable size. How would you compare these to the Rythmik FVX12? Is the bigger woofer in the HSU worth the tradeoff in musicality?
 

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Agreed, the VTF3 MK5 would be a more acceptable size. How would you compare these to the Rythmik FVX12? Is the bigger woofer in the HSU worth the tradeoff in musicality?
You don't know that there will be a trade off in musicality. If there is, it might even be to the HSU's advantage since you can easily convert it to run in sealed mode. Get the most sub that you can afford and fit. ;)
 
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If you have any interest in DIY, there are "flat-pack" designs that you can assemble yourself with more modest carpentry skills and tools.
I haven't tried it myself (I'm too chicken so far :)), but imagine that getting an aesthetically pleasing finish on it could prove to be a challenge without experience.

If it's possible to put something under the seating, I'm talking about something inexpensive like the Dayton Audio SUB-1000L at partsexpress.com.
There are other makes/models, but if it fits, it could affect listeners on the couch without trying to pressurize the whole house for not a lot of money.
That is not exclusive of putting a big ported sub in the corner and tying them together for LFE.
The LFE subs don't have to match, but multiple subs would need a way to combine to work together for a single, optimal LFE response. You'd need a DSP solution to tie them all together.
AVRs handle 1 sub, and higher-end ones 2 subs for delay and gain. Otherwise you need an external DSP solution to tie in other subs.
A lot of people like miniDSP.com solutions, but Dayton also has the DSP-LF, which is relatively inexpensive and can correct 1 sub each.
Some subs such as the SVS "Pro" models have DSPs built-in and may resolve this.

The Rythmik sub to the left of MLP would be very effective, but is relatively expensive. Additionally subs you're placing for LFE may not be effective for music as you may like if they're needed to help the L/R speakers.
If you think the JBL 530s need help with bass for stereo music, and since you use the system more for music than HT, you may want to consider prioritizing that usage and get subs for music.
You might want those subs near the L/R positions if you want the low frequencies of the music to be able to be localized.
If that's not an issue, just go for the bigger subs.

Under budget you could get actually try to get subs to try to address both music and LFE (but you may be facing a space/wiring problem after that!).
For music, a pair of RSL Speedwoofer 10s subs dedicated to stereo L/R could work. Connect the JBLs with a high-pass filter, and let the RSLs handle the bass.
Then you can tell the AVR that your front L/R are "Large". That would allow the LFE subs to not have to do double-duty for music.
For LFE, go for ported subs with the remaining budget. 1 large sub in the corner, or 1 in the corner and 1 left of MLP.
If a pair, consider Hsu VTF-2 Mk5, or Rythmik LV-12F. After tax and the DSPs, you're a bit over budget. SVS PB-1000 or Monolith 10" could keep you closer to budget.
If the one near the kitchen wall is too deep to face MLP without blocking the path, consider pointing it at the dining area, but from the location closer to the stairs.

My L/R speakers are JBL Studio 530's. I don't have a center right now but will definitely be adding one.
I had a feeling that placing the subs on L/R on the front wouldnt be best for room response. Front right and maybe one more spot would be better. I dont hate the idea of Putting a slim sub under the table to the left of the MLP. Would maybe a Rythmik L22 on its side do ok there? I guess I would need an identical one for the front right corner?
I never considered DIY, but the VBSS offerings look very interersting. I'm not very handy, but maybe I can gt some friends help.
I may have some room under the couch (sectional with 3 recliners), but not sure which subs will fit under there. Is thee a link I can research?
 

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Order an SB-2000 or PB-2000 from SVS, a UMIK/UMM6 and install REW. Use the SVS sub to do measurements at all the possible locations. I see about 5 different locations that are worth testing and at each location you will want to measure 4 different times changing the orientation of the sub each time.


Then send the sub back for a full refund (you don't even have to pay return shipping). At that point you will have much more data and experience with subs in your space and it will be easier to make an educated choice.


EDIT: to make Imureh happy, you might very well like the SVS sub and decide to keep it. It is difficult to know what you are going to want/need until you have something in your room.
This is terrible, please don't do this OP. If you have a genuine interest in their product then give it a try, if you want to compare a couple different options in your space? Fine. But don't just get a product to perform the tests and then return.

We need more businesses that have great customer service and flexible return policies, these sorts of abuses result in companies cutting such programs.
 

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@badtlc , which other spots do you see for placement?

1) outside of FL speaker
2) between FL speaker & TV
3) Between FR speaker & TV
4) outside of FR speaker
5) Against wall next to couch near the FR corner


They don't seem like drastically different placements but you'll be surprised at how much difference there can be, especially when you rotate the sub in all 4 directions.
 
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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
If you have any interest in DIY, there are "flat-pack" designs that you can assemble yourself with more modest carpentry skills and tools.
I haven't tried it myself (I'm too chicken so far :)), but imagine that getting an aesthetically pleasing finish on it could prove to be a challenge without experience.

If it's possible to put something under the seating, I'm talking about something inexpensive like the Dayton Audio SUB-1000L at partsexpress.com.
There are other makes/models, but if it fits, it could affect listeners on the couch without trying to pressurize the whole house for not a lot of money.
That is not exclusive of putting a big ported sub in the corner and tying them together for LFE.
The LFE subs don't have to match, but multiple subs would need a way to combine to work together for a single, optimal LFE response. You'd need a DSP solution to tie them all together.
AVRs handle 1 sub, and higher-end ones 2 subs for delay and gain. Otherwise you need an external DSP solution to tie in other subs.
A lot of people like miniDSP.com solutions, but Dayton also has the DSP-LF, which is relatively inexpensive and can correct 1 sub each.
Some subs such as the SVS "Pro" models have DSPs built-in and may resolve this.

The Rythmik sub to the left of MLP would be very effective, but is relatively expensive. Additionally subs you're placing for LFE may not be effective for music as you may like if they're needed to help the L/R speakers.
If you think the JBL 530s need help with bass for stereo music, and since you use the system more for music than HT, you may want to consider prioritizing that usage and get subs for music.
You might want those subs near the L/R positions if you want the low frequencies of the music to be able to be localized.
If that's not an issue, just go for the bigger subs.

Under budget you could get actually try to get subs to try to address both music and LFE (but you may be facing a space/wiring problem after that!).
For music, a pair of RSL Speedwoofer 10s subs dedicated to stereo L/R could work. Connect the JBLs with a high-pass filter, and let the RSLs handle the bass.
Then you can tell the AVR that your front L/R are "Large". That would allow the LFE subs to not have to do double-duty for music.
For LFE, go for ported subs with the remaining budget. 1 large sub in the corner, or 1 in the corner and 1 left of MLP.
If a pair, consider Hsu VTF-2 Mk5, or Rythmik LV-12F. After tax and the DSPs, you're a bit over budget. SVS PB-1000 or Monolith 10" could keep you closer to budget.
If the one near the kitchen wall is too deep to face MLP without blocking the path, consider pointing it at the dining area, but from the location closer to the stairs.
The DIY flat packs are tempting for the price, but looking at the V.B.S.S. and Marty design, they're huge! (The 18" Marty Cube is 24Wx23.5Dx28H) It could go in the front right corner for LFE and then add a L22 left of the MLP. But unless I use DSP like you were saying (which is kind of beyond my ability) I cant imagine it sounding good for music. It seems a compromise has to be made between music and HT where music would win out. With this, the RSL speedwoofer or maybe rythmik F12's would do the trick at LR positions.

Another idea I had was there is a dead space behind the wall to the right of the staircase. I could potentially frame out an opening (a cubby)and slide a big ported sub into that cubby with the woofer facing out and towards the back of the couch. If I had the big sub in front right and a second identical sub in the dead space, would that work? Or is the idea of putting a sub into an enclosed space not a good idea? Take a look at my revision attached.
 

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It seems a compromise has to be made between music and HT where music would win out.

Good subs these days don't make compromises between music and HT.
 
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Yep. They're big! lol. That's why a some people build them as end tables. Then they're good for sound and holding stuff.
Don't forget to budget for amps if you go this route.

As far as the dead space behind MLP, why not? If you were going to have a space issue anyway, this could help resolve it. I'm sure you'll get tips here, the DIY forum and the home theater build forum to optimize it.

You might as well call RSL, Hsu, SVS and Rythmik, and explain your situation to see what they suggest. In particular about placing subs for music in the non-L/R location, and how to tie them in for LFE for HT.
Sure they're motivated to sell their solutions, but they may give you some insights.

As far as DSPs, whatever the AVR can do for LFE is automatic with the room correction that's built-in. The Dayton DSP looks straight forward as well, using an iPhone app to make the adjustments.
The miniDSP solutions require a calibrated microphone and a laptop running free software.

The DIY flat packs are tempting for the price, but looking at the V.B.S.S. and Marty design, they're huge! (The 18" Marty Cube is 24Wx23.5Dx28H) It could go in the front right corner for LFE and then add a L22 left of the MLP. But unless I use DSP like you were saying (which is kind of beyond my ability) I cant imagine it sounding good for music. It seems a compromise has to be made between music and HT where music would win out. With this, the RSL speedwoofer or maybe rythmik F12's would do the trick at LR positions.

Another idea I had was there is a dead space behind the wall to the right of the staircase. I could potentially frame out an opening (a cubby) and slide a big ported sub into that cubby with the woofer facing out and towards the back of the couch. If I had the big sub in front right and a second identical sub in the dead space, would that work? Or is the idea of putting a sub into an enclosed space not a good idea? Take a look at my revision attached.
 
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