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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm finishing a new home theater with Dynaudio S5.4's and haven't decided on a sub yet. My thoughts and considerations so far:


Martin-Logan Descent - Excellent, well controlled sound. A little bigger than I (or my wife) would like.


Velodyne DD series - Haven't listened to these yet since there's no dealer nearby. I have heard numerous issues about reliability of the unique digital amplifier used in the earlier HGS series I and II from a former dealer and on the internet. Does the DD use the same amp? Anyone hear of any continuing problems?


Dynaudio Contour - Supposedly just released new subs at CES


Any opinions or comments?


Thanks
 

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Why no SVS or HSU considerations? I think either one from this company would perform at or above the performance level of any of the ones you mentioned. And probably cost less!
 

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Good God,


If I had s5.4's I don't think I'd want a sub in there potentially mucking up the wonderful bass you already have. What ever sub you do get, it will have to be extraordinary to match in with the 5.4's. Whatever you do, don't skimp on the subwoofer or otherwise you'll be wishing you never got it.


You say you're setting up your home theatre. Do you actually have the 5.4's in your home yet? Cause if you don't I'd wait and see how they sound on their own first with movies before buying the sub.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Obiwan,


I'm glad you like the s5.4's as much as I do. They really are amazing. I just took delivery of them and they're standing, silently, in my theater room. Unfortunately, I just learned that the Meridian G68 processor I have on order may take another 4-6 weeks to arrive! Good thing the Dynaudios are as beautiful to look at as they are to listen to.
 

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try a REL sub. They do wonderful things, but use a unique hook-up that doesn't muck with the speakers. HSU or SVS are great subs, but when you've got speakers as good as yours you need something a little special. go the the REL acoustics website for more info on their products.


I've personally heard a REL subwoofer with a pair of Dynaudio Temptations (speakers which don't miss much) and it was astonishing how much the REL added to the music. I'm lucky because my dealer has Dyn's, Logans, and RELs all set up in one building. No contest between DYN, Logan, and the REL for subs. Also, they're competitively priced.


good luck, I hope you have a REL dealer near you.
 

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xrayyou,


I believe that the amplifier used in the DD series is indeed the same one used in the HGS Series II. Although I'm aware that there were some reliability issues with the HGS-10 Series I (usually due to its being overdriven), I wasn't aware that the problems continued into the Series II. Are you sure about this?


Ran
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by xrayyou
Haven't heard of SVS. Seen a few ads for Hsu but I think they're internet only making an audition difficult. I'll look into it. Thanks.
My experience is that auditioning products from the internet only companies is as easy as brands/models available in B&M stores, and sometimes more convenient. All the internet only companies that I am aware of offer 30-45 money back return policies. This gives you the ability to audition in your own home and in the long run you are only out the shipping costs to return something you decide not to keep.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for everyone's feedback.


Bradz, do I understand you correctly in thinking that the Dyn, ML, and REL subs are fairly comparable? I've been reading good things about REL in general on this site. Will try to locate a dealer. By the way, does your Dyn dealer have the new subs yet? A CES report I saw described a new sub 300 (10", 200W) and a sub 500 (12", 250W).


theranman, the dealer I spoke to specifically said the problems spilled over into the HGS series II. Not just 10's but the larger subs including the 18. I believe they all used the same amp anyway. He went on to say that Velo's customer support was as big a problem as the technical issues. Fully paid for subs DOA out of the box had to be returned for repair with 4-6 week turn around times while he tried to supply loaners from his store. I've written to Velo about this and am awaiting their response.
 

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my dealer doesn't have the new dyn subs, but since they started carrying the RELs they've sold more of those than anything else. They said to me that if all you're doing is theater then the dyn or logan subs are fine, but for music the REL is clearly superior. from my auditions I'll have to agree. do a search for sumiko distributors- they are the US distributor for REL.


Again, I think the key is that you can hook up two different ways at the same time, one for theater another for music. check them out. with speakers like yours you need something special. My dealer told me that he talked to dynaudio about REL and they even said that the REL was hard to beat.
 

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I had a problem with a Velodyne HGS12II. The problem started with intermittent woofer pumping. Usually it would either go away on its own or cycling power would do it. Progressively, the problem got worse. Eventually, the problem turned from woofer pumping to a crackling noise that would eminate from the sub and from my mains. Playing around with my system configuration confirmed that the sub was the culprit. Curt from Velodyne called me after I had left a message with customer support. He said the symptoms sounded like something's wrong in the amp board (possibly a bad cap.) The strange thing was that the issue only happened when the sub was idling with no source music being pumped through it. I brought the sub to the store where I purchased it. Of course their techs couldn't reproduce the problem. So they were reluctant to just replace parts. As luck would have it, a friend of mine just upgraded his HGS12II to a DD12. So I arranged for a swap of my old sub to my friend's old sub. To this date, I haven't had any problems. I've had the "new" sub in my system for about 2 months now. BTW, my sub was purchased brand new and the sub was about 4 months old when it went in for service. Despite my problems, I would still give Velo another chance. I'm happy with the sound of the Velo and am considering a DD15 purchase. My ordeal would have been solved sooner had it not been for the fact that the HGS series had been discontinued. My dealer said they would have given me a new one based on the problems I was experiencing.
 

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Take a good look at ACI subs. I have a fair amount of experience with the various RELs and Velodynes. My pair of ACI Force subs provide deep, clean and very well integrated bass. The quality is just exceptional. They're also built like tanks and ACI is a factory-direct leader for over 25 years. Great people to work with. Maybe a pair of their Titans or their new Maestro sub.
 

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I just faced the same decision. I have Mcintosh LS-360 speaker and was trying to mate them with a sub. I know the Internet brand subs always get great reviews but my speakers retail for 7k and I wasn't sure if those subs were up to the same quality. I suspect that they may well be performance wise considering the specs. However, I enjoy looking at my speakers as well so aesthetics was also a factor. I've spent a lot on leather recliners and the best gear I could afford and don't want to look at a large tube sub and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Before I purchased my speakers, I spent a lot of time listening to everything around my price point. It took about a year and alot of travel. I was looking for a speaker that could enable me to hear accurate pitch changes as I find that the inability to hear them destroys the illusion of reality for me since I listen to so much live jazz here in New Orleans. The Martin Logans speakers were some of the absolute best at this. Stats are extremely fast and for any sub to blend it must be as well. When a bass guitar is playing with Martin Logan Odysseys, you can clearly hear the bass change in pitch with good rock recordings. When the Martin Logan Descent was added, the bass was seamless. The only difference was more bass so I'd highly recommend the Martin Logan sub. Velodyne subs have consistently gotten high praise. I do know that of the many dealer's show rooms that I have visited, the higher end surround system will almost always feature a Velo sub if that dealer carries the brand. However, if the dealer has a second room more geared to music, the sub is usually Rel or another brand. I decided to stick with a Mcintosh sub because I was assured by Mcintosh that with proper placement the sub would blend perfectly, the demo that I heard did in fact blend perfectly and the dealer that I purchased it from offered to allow me to return it if I was unhappy. There is no substitute for a great sub. My music is more dynamic and "realistic." I certainly advise you to take the time to find one that matches your system. I would addtion the Dynaudio sub if possible but if it's just been introduced, my experience is that it will be months before it's shipping but sometimes the best decisions require patience. A great sub is just not for movies. I'm told that almost any full rande speaker will have less intermodulation distortion when paired with a sub. My first priority is music and at least 80% of the time my system is being used it's playing music. You need to know everyone's biases.
 

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I don't know if my experience is that helpful because I have an all-Martin Logan speaker setup, so I guess it is natural that I am enjoying the Descent.


However, for what it's worth, we recently upgraded all the cables and interconnects and obtained a new pre/pro (Krell Showcase). In tweaking the system, we decided to try crossing over to the sub on the front speakers as well as the center and rears.


This is really a good test of a sub, because you are really asking it to blend in seamlessly and retain musicality, not just boom away on LFE's.


It was remarkable in its ability to relieve stress from the rest of the speaker (and amplifier) and expand the soundstage without causing boominess or a sense that everything was coming from the sub.


Oh, and it can still blow you out of the room on LFE.
 

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I don't think you could go wrong with a REL, ML Descent or Velo DD. The only way to know for SURE would be to demo each in your room with your speakers. I realize that may be difficult.


If I had ML speakers - I would absolutely get the Descent. I'm not sure I would put it on the top of my list with Dyns. I think the high end Velos are great and the DD series adds some nice features for overcoming room problems. But REL is still king for great seamless bass integration.


It's difficult to make a decision when there are so many excellent options.


;)
 

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I certainly would look and listen hard at all of your options before jumping to conclusions about what to buy.


A good friend has the awesome sounding Aerial Model 9 (30 Hz to 22 kHz +/-2 dB) but he wanted to get more extension and even up his room response by using a separate sub in the best room location (relative to his prime listening seat). Of course the Rosewood SW12 is top of the line and was his prime target but at $4.5k it was a big ask with his new system. I talked him into taking a 30 day listen to the Hsu Research VTF-3R (18 Hz - 125 Hz +/-1 dB) and he was a bit unsure, but once we had it in his system and he could see and hear it, it became very obvious that the sound of this combo is absolutely stunning. He is one of the fussier people I know, "especially about his music", but he is extremely happy with the ability of the VTF-3R to be neutral and not show signs of being bloated and/or displaying port related problems that other subwoofers tend to do.


His system is used for 90% music and 10% HT.
http://www.aerialacoustics.com/Aeria...9/small/11.jpg
http://hsuresearch.com/images/vtf-3_rosewood.jpg


Secrets did a review of it this month:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-1-2004.html


Also for those into black take a look at the new 350w Piano Black VTF-3 MK2's

.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...HsuVTFmkII.jpg


Dr Hsu has improved dramatically the fit and finish on these new models. They have a finish that is first rate to go with their great SQ.


Ddavidson
 

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Xrayyou, Audio Resources, in Metarie, is a Velodyne dealer. I'm sure if they don't have the new models,they will be getting them in soon. Also, that's one of the places that I heard the Decent.
 

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Having owned a flagship Velodyne in the past, I can only speak to how excellent a performer it was. Too bad the wife and esthetics are in the mix. Isn't it about sheer performance??:D With a set up like yours I'd for get the pretty name brand models and go for a Servo_drive ContraBass or B-DEAP32. Either will easily outperfrom the aforementioned subs in the LFE department and bring the home theater portion of your system to a new level. I can speak personally for the BDEAP32 and say that it is tight, deep and has essentially unlimited output to those low, low 12-15 hz levels.


Yes, they cost a bit more than the above when you add in amplification and EQ but like most else in this hobby, you get what you pay for....
 

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I am afraid to say Audio Resource no longer supports the fine of subwoofers manufactured by Velodyne Acoustics.
 
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