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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm thinking to upgrade my current elac setup (Elac unifi LCR) for HT purpose. They sounded fine for music listening but l felt they lacked the ability to handle movie scenes with large dynamic range. Also I felt the vocal clarity from the center was a bit muddled.

I decided to upgrade to Monolith thx 365 series and I've already got the LR channels. Unfortunately, the center channel 365c was sold out and would be restocked 2 month later according to their website. Since I'm impatient, I'd like to seek an alternative.

After some research I have my eyes on the following
1) Emotiva c2+ (also out of stock)
2) KEF R2c
3) Paradigm 600c

I'll be watching movie 80% of the time and listening to music for 20%. Current sub is bic pl200 and I'm on the fence of getting dual svs pb2000.

Appreciate your input on which center to choose and welcome better alternatives other than the above ones in similar price range.
 

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I'm thinking to upgrade my current elac setup (Elac unifi LCR) for HT purpose. They sounded fine for music listening but l felt they lacked the ability to handle movie scenes with large dynamic range. Also I felt the vocal clarity from the center was a bit muddled.

I decided to upgrade to Monolith thx 365 series and I've already got the LR channels. Unfortunately, the center channel 365c was sold out and would be restocked 2 month later according to their website. Since I'm impatient, I'd like to seek an alternative.

After some research I have my eyes on the following
1) Emotiva c2+ (also out of stock)
2) KEF R2c
3) Paradigm 600c

I'll be watching movie 80% of the time and listening to music for 20%. Current sub is bic pl200 and I'm on the fence of getting dual svs pb2000.

Appreciate your input on which center to choose and welcome better alternatives other than the above ones in similar price range.
I'd get the Infinity RC263 from Amazon for $250, zero need to spend more than that.

How big is your room? For your 20% music listening I'd lean more towards Rythmik LV12-F or Hsu VTF-2 than the SVS.
 

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I'm thinking to upgrade my current elac setup (Elac unifi LCR) for HT purpose. They sounded fine for music listening but l felt they lacked the ability to handle movie scenes with large dynamic range. Also I felt the vocal clarity from the center was a bit muddled.

I decided to upgrade to Monolith thx 365 series and I've already got the LR channels. Unfortunately, the center channel 365c was sold out and would be restocked 2 month later according to their website. Since I'm impatient, I'd like to seek an alternative.

After some research I have my eyes on the following
1) Emotiva c2+ (also out of stock)
2) KEF R2c
3) Paradigm 600c
The Monoprice 365 speakers are THX Ultra certified. They have been tested and certified for some very specific sonic and acoustic/mechanical characteristics, such as output capability, on- and off-axis frequency response, dispersion, LF F3 and LF roll-off, etc. The "Ultra" designation means they provide enough output for 12' or greater viewing distances.
THX Certified Loudspeakers
None of the speakers in your list above are designed to THX parameters and none have THX certification. If you bought your L/R speakers because of their THX certification, and it has any value to you, then a THX certified CC would seem to be your best bet.

Also, THX strongly recommends matching loudspeakers for timbre, frequency response and SPL output. Therefore, I suggest you either wait for the Monoprice 365c THX Ultra certified CC to come back in stock, or you look to other THX certified CC speakers, (all THX certified speakers will have similar timbre, FR, dispersion and SPL capability), and they should all work interchangeably. The THX website linked above also has a section on THX certified products, so you can look for alternative speakers there.
Having said that, there are not many THX certified speakers in the Monoprice 365 price range. The fact that it meets THX Ultra certification at it's price point is actually a laudable feat!

There are certainly many other speakers that can meet the THX certification parameters, but don't have the certification because the manufacturer doesn't feel the need to apply for it. If you want to look at other non-THX CC speakers, I suggest you look for a speaker that can manage THX SPL levels, (105 dB SPL at 1 meter), and have neutral timbre, and with wide dispersion, especially in the horizontal plane. Ideally, the speaker would be sealed with an F3 of 60 to 80 Hz, so it works optimally with an 80 Hz THX crossover, (not surprisingly, these are all the attributes of the 365c). Again, not many $400 speakers are capable of THX Ultra performance levels.

I'll be watching movie 80% of the time and listening to music for 20%. Current sub is bic pl200 and I'm on the fence of getting dual svs pb2000.
Most, or pretty much ALL, movies contain a soundtrack with music. Therefore, I suggest you pick speakers that can do BOTH music and movies equally well because your 80% movie viewing will also be 80% music listening. Therefore 80% movies plus 20% music = 100% music listening.

Craig
 

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I'm thinking to upgrade my current elac setup (Elac unifi LCR) for HT purpose. They sounded fine for music listening but l felt they lacked the ability to handle movie scenes with large dynamic range. Also I felt the vocal clarity from the center was a bit muddled.

I decided to upgrade to Monolith thx 365 series and I've already got the LR channels. Unfortunately, the center channel 365c was sold out and would be restocked 2 month later according to their website. Since I'm impatient, I'd like to seek an alternative.

After some research I have my eyes on the following
1) Emotiva c2+ (also out of stock)
2) KEF R2c
3) Paradigm 600c

I'll be watching movie 80% of the time and listening to music for 20%. Current sub is bic pl200 and I'm on the fence of getting dual svs pb2000.

Appreciate your input on which center to choose and welcome better alternatives other than the above ones in similar price range.
I have had Paradigm 600C for a number of years and have mixed reactions. It is a full range and very dynamic sound that will fill the center. However, I have continually wished that the Beryllium tweeter was clearer or more pronounced. This could be a problem if you value absolute clarity and presence at the higher end....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
There are certainly many other speakers that can meet the THX certification parameters, but don't have the certification because the manufacturer doesn't feel the need to apply for it. If you want to look at other non-THX CC speakers, I suggest you look for a speaker that can manage THX SPL levels, (105 dB SPL at 1 meter), and have neutral timbre, and with wide dispersion, especially in the horizontal plane. Ideally, the speaker would be sealed with an F3 of 60 to 80 Hz, so it works optimally with an 80 Hz THX crossover, (not surprisingly, these are all the attributes of the 365c). Again, not many $400 speakers are capable of THX Ultra performance levels.
Thanks a lot for the info. My budget is around 1k and trying to find hidden gems that doesn't have thx certification but with similar performance. I tried to look online for spl measurement chats of some centers but they are highly inconsistent. Usually they don't have spl level chart with what distance they were measured at.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have had Paradigm 600C for a number of years and have mixed reactions. It is a full range and very dynamic sound that will fill the center. However, I have continually wished that the Beryllium tweeter was clearer or more pronounced. This could be a problem if you value absolute clarity and presence at the higher end....
TBH I'm attracted by the speaker's look and paradigm's reputation on some of its older speakers like CC590. Too bad to hear the vocal clarity of 600c isn't its strength.
 

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Around 2000 ft^3. Any reasons?
That's fairly sizable, so I'd recommend a pair of Hsu VTF-3 over a pair of PB2000 (similar price).
If it were a smaller space, a pair of VTF-2.
 

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FWIW, AVS Forum member @bear123 posted on another forum that he had performed compression sweeps of an Infinity RC263 vs. a Revel C25 and found that the RC263 had about 5 dB more headroom at higher levels than the C25 and sounded subjectively cleaner up to reference level. Although the RC263 hasn't been submitted to THX for certification I would be surprised if it doesn't come very close to matching the overall performance of the THX-365C.
 

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Thanks a lot for the info. My budget is around 1k and trying to find hidden gems that doesn't have thx certification but with similar performance. I tried to look online for spl measurement chats of some centers but they are highly inconsistent. Usually they don't have spl level chart with what distance they were measured at.
Yes, that is certainly an issue. Far too many manufacturers skimp in the very basic specifications. The VAST MAJORITY don't post FR graphs of any kind, much less ANSI-CTA 2034-A* standard measurements. That makes it darn near impossible to make adequate comparisons based on actual, factual data. All you have left to go on is anonymous, and often contradictory, subjective commentary on speaker forums. People love to jump into threads like this and tell you: "I bought these speakers and they are GREAT!" Worse yet, you get suggestions form people who will say: "I think these speakers will work GREAT for you.", only to find out that they are just parroting what they've read or heard and have no personal, first hand experience with the recommended speakers. How do you know what to believe?

There are a couple of websites that offer the 3rd-party ANSI-CTA 2034-A measurements for various speakers. They might be useful in your search:

That said, THX certification does all that for you. If a speaker has achieved THX certification, you can rest assured it will perform to THX's spec's. That is why I suggested waiting for the Monoprice CC to come back in stock. Or, if you can't wait that long, looking at other THX certified speakers.)

Good luck with your search.

Craig

*American National Standards Institute, (ANSI), and Consumers Technology Association, (CTA), Standards Method of Measurements for In-Home Loudspeakers, (ANSI-CTA 2034-A):
 

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FWIW, AVS Forum member @bear123 posted on another forum that he had performed compression sweeps of an Infinity RC263 vs. a Revel C25 and found that the RC263 had about 5 dB more headroom at higher levels than the C25 and sounded subjectively cleaner up to reference level. Although the RC263 hasn't been submitted to THX for certification I would be surprised if it doesn't come very close to matching the overall performance of the THX-365C.
Would you please PM me a link to that post. Thanks!

Craig
 

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Buy a pair of 265s, use one as the center for now. Move to surround duty when the center comes in. Using some other center for this speaker is not the way to go. Instant gratification is overrated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Buy a pair of 265s, use one as the center for now. Move to surround duty when the center comes in. Using some other center for this speaker is not the way to go. Instant gratification is overrated.
Unfortunately I've already completed the 7 speaker setup for surround. Why using alternative center is not the way to go?
 

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Because you want your front three to be as closely matched as possible. To mismatch them for no other reason than impatience is .... <negative term redacted>

Have you tried phantom center?
 

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So, I looked at Bear's graphs. Compression sets in above about 95 dB for the RC263. However, this is an in-room measurment at his listening position, so it's not really comparable to the anechoic measurements THX performs. Also, he doesn't seem to be certain of the calibration of his mic/measurement system, as it doesn't correlate to an SPL meter on his phone. (Personally, I would have more confidence in the measurement mic as phone apps are notoriously inaccurate unless calibrated properly.) Nonetheless, a THX speaker is certified for 105 dB at a 12 foot listening distance.

That said, the Infinity has remarkably smooth response and very consistent response across all his listening positions. It should sound quite good, so if 95 dB of output is enough for @JasonBa, it should match the Monoprice THX speakers pretty well from a timbre standpoint.

I would still wait for the matching THX certified CC however. But that's just me... and apparently @RayGuy too. (y) 😉

Craig
 
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Unfortunately I've already completed the 7 speaker setup for surround. Why using alternative center is not the way to go?
It is not the OPTIMAL way to go. If you're just looking for "good enough"...

Craig
 
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