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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Assuming that when BD+ arrives it proves to be at least as much of a hurdle for crackers as AACS was, I'm curious what people think will happen with titles released on both formats


One scenario has BD+ remaining uncracked, with the DVDJons the internet working on it, while the common pirates rip HD-DVD releases and not BD ones. Even though a BD+ crack would not remain secret for long, I bet studios will start, if they haven't already, watermarking the releases so they can tell which format a rip was sourced from.


HDDVD rips are certainly around on the net, and will continue as long as AACS keeps being attacked successfully. BD+ may keep new BD rips from appearing. Not that we talk about it here, but we have to acknowledge that this phase of titles are vulnerable.


In this case, how much do we think WB and Paramount actually care about piracy at this stage? Would they stagger release dates? Would they cancel titles? They have to put up with piracy of DVDs, but that is their bread and butter. They put up with piracy of HD broadcasts because presumably the financials are good enough. Would the existence of two formats change anything, if one is more vulnerable?


(please leave the larger format war outside this thread.)
 

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Well, I think that Paramount may start putting BD+ on big catalogue releases like Shrek but leaving it out on the more mundane ones as it costs more money to put in.


WB will avoid it like the plague as BD+, whether we like it or not, is a big positive for the studios and if they start using it they will see that and pressure within the studio will grow to release just on Blu-ray.


A successful run for BD+ may even go a long way to convincing Universal to consider Blu-ray (I doubt that they appreciate 1080p copies of their movies floating about the internets), but if it causes player malfunctions and the like, it will re-affirm their commitment to HD DVD, so its use by Fox on the next few titles is quite pivotal IMO.


If that counts as a war comment I apologise and will edit at the request of the OP.
 

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bd+ will be cracked no less then 1 month of release. sure accs took longer but cause haxors didnt have the pc drives to do so and didnt really care to much.


bd+ wont change a dang thing
 

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With my long history in computer hardware and software, I'm of the opinion that if they implement whatever, if someone thinks it is worthwhile, it won't take them long to crack whatever schema the mfgs come up with.


The mfgs will scream about how much money they lose because of the piracy as usual, but the reality is the pirates and cohorts wouldn't have bought it anyway. Thieves are thieves, plain and simple.
 

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let me add this once they find out how to do crack bd+ it wil be all over the net step by step.


ive never copied a cd in my life and my mom asked if i can make her copies of her cd's so that she could keep the orignal in a safe place and use the copy. i told her i dont have a clue on doing so!


so i googled it and bam not even 2 minutes later i had figured out how to make copies of the cd's
 

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BD+ enjoys an advantage however in that the entire defense scheme is local to the disc and virtual machine itself, meaning that even if it gets cracked, future disc presses can quickly shift to new encryption. In fact in its ideal conceptualization, *every* BD release would have an entirely independent encryption scheme. So... BD+ isn't really a matter of being uncrackable or not as it relates to AACS, and more a matter of increased 'hassle' for the hackers. Afterall if the encryption engine is at all complicated, there are not many people that will find it worth their time to try and hack new schemes again, and again, and again...


There was a great thread on BD+ and ROM-Mark not too long ago that maybe I'll be forced to search for and link if this thread goes the expected route, but it was quite informative. Anyway we'll see what happens when it actually launches; it shouldn't take long to get a sense of its utility.
 

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BD+ will most likely and eventually be cracked but lets hope it will have a long enough run to convince at least one neutral studio(Paramount) to go Blu-ray exclusive.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggster /forum/post/0


let me add this once they find out how to do crack bd+ it wil be all over the net step by step.


ive never copied a cd in my life and my mom asked if i can make her copies of her cd's so that she could keep the orignal in a safe place and use the copy. i told her i dont have a clue on doing so!


so i googled it and bam not even 2 minutes later i had figured out how to make copies of the cd's

There is a lot of difference between putting source CD in top drawer, blank in bottom drawer, loading up Nero and clicking direct copy than defeating AACS and copying a HD DVD (impossible due to the lack of writers and media atm) or BD. CDs have little to no copy protection these days (after the whole Sony XCP rootkit fiasco, they tend to avoid it AFAIK). Currently if you want to break AACS, I think you need a working knowledge of Java and some sort of knowledge of Hex, now to some people that may not seem complicated, but it is much more than you will ever need to copy a CD. Once BD+ is into the mix, the situation will only get worse.


I think the BDA stated that this is only meant to stop casual pirates who will borrow their mates BD and copy it for themselves, and irritate the f*** out of the more serious ones who upload their stuff to to*rent sites.
 

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from what i have seen insiders say about bd+ is that it will be harder to crack but once its cracked it will be easier to get the keys.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggster /forum/post/0


from what i have seen insiders say about bd+ is that it will be harder to crack but once its cracked it will be easier to get the keys.

BD+ will actually install its own VM every time you play the disc to check the integrity of the player so until they can figure out how to trick the disc, they have got pretty much no chance of getting at the keys. Also tricking the disc will not be static, they can update BD+ to be resistant to any current methods utilised, it is a challenge, way more than AACS ever was.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 /forum/post/0


(I doubt that they appreciate 1080p copies of their movies floating about the internets)

I wonder how many people have enough bandwidth to download 20-30GB files and a fast enough computer to play them...that also just happens to have it hooked up to their big screen TV
.


A pirated movie is a pirated movie no matter what resolution it's in and I'm sure only the "uber geeks" of the world would appreciate an HD quality movie that took them days to download.


Remember that right now there are people watching a camcorder filmed Spider-man 3 and looking at the fat guy that just got out of his seat and is blocking the screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 /forum/post/0


BD+ will actually install its own VM every time you play the disc to check the integrity of the player so until they can figure out how to trick the disc, they have got pretty much no chance of getting at the keys. Also tricking the disc will not be static, they can update BD+ to be resistant to any current methods utilised, it is a challenge, way more than AACS ever was.

I'm sure BD+ will be only a cheap PC BD drive away from being cracked. I'm also sure that there will be compatibility problems of epic proportions with alot of players (Hello Pioneer tech support, my $1000 Blu-ray player won't play *insert any Disney animation film*)
 

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But one has to wonder if current drives even support BD+, what with all the BD spec's being unfinished and all, which is part of the reason my 1200 was returned yesterday.


virtual machine=additional attack vector. BD+ will be nullified within 1 business week of showing up I think.


Hopefully everyone here realizes that AACS and BD+ are in place to support Business Models and not preventing piracy.
 

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I just want to store them on my server for ease of use in my automated theater. BD+ will ruin that, as there isn't an option to backup/store them on a server authorized by the studios... nor are there any official plans to any time soon.


If anyone has information to the contrary, please share.


All you Kaleidescape and Fusion Research customers need to watch our for BD+ as you may only have a Hi-Def HD-DVD only solution. Especially after they won the lawsuit, I don't believe they're gonna have an easy time getting approved for Hi-Def discs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyricardo /forum/post/0


I'm also sure that there will be compatibility problems of epic proportions with alot of players (Hello Pioneer tech support, my $1000 Blu-ray player won't play *insert any Disney animation film*)

Thats what testing is for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I was actually curious when I started this thread what people think will happen in the window before BD+ gets cracked. For the sake of argument, say it survives Q4 this year, since Q4 will be interesting anyway.


We've had a mix of technical and non-technical people commenting on how long it'll take to be cracked, but I'm more interested in what will happen while it holds. The trusted client problem won't go away, but protection systems can delay piracy.
 

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I think the idea of neutral studios going BD exclusive and abadoning HD-DVD because of BD+ is a myth. First of all, I see BD+ causing a lot of problems initially with older players, etc, and whether these discs will work even with a firmware upgrade. After we get past that, BD+ will be cracked in weeks and then it's back to the drawing board. I wonder if FOX will ever release another BD title again if it's really piracy that's delaying their BD releases because BD+ is a temporary solution at best.
 

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nothing is gonna stop piracy period.


people pirate money,pirate id's,pirate mostly everything out their.


and i doubt the bda is giving more effort then the us treasury is to stop piracy and even then money gets pirated... but not many due it due to strict laws and actually following through with them.


now one way to actually slow them down big time is to enforce the current laws. like if a cop pulls you over and say you have a dvd-r and cd-r's with music and movies taht are still unreleased then they pursue with charges. right now cops can careless.


the most i see them do when they catch someone is take away teh stuff and let them go without a ticket...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyaDawn /forum/post/0


I think the idea of neutral studios going BD exclusive and abadoning HD-DVD because of BD+ is a myth. First of all, I see BD+ causing a lot of problems initially with older players, etc, and whether these discs will work even with a firmware upgrade. After we get past that, BD+ will be cracked in weeks and then it's back to the drawing board. I wonder if FOX will ever release another BD title again if it's really piracy that's delaying their BD releases because BD+ is a temporary solution at best.

Well, I'm not saying they would at this point. But to say that BD+ will be cracked in weeks seems unlikely given that while there are successful attacks on AACS, it's not dead yet. If somehow the new AACS keys hold longer than BD+ this thread will be moot. But we've seen WB delay BDs for BD-J... might they do the same waiting for new rounds of AACS keys after new attacks while BD+ protects BD?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pellucidity /forum/post/0


Well, I'm not saying they would at this point. But to say that BD+ will be cracked in weeks seems unlikely given that while there are successful attacks on AACS, it's not dead yet. If somehow the new AACS keys hold longer than BD+ this thread will be moot. But we've seen WB delay BDs for BD-J... might they do the same waiting for new rounds of AACS keys after new attacks while BD+ protects BD?

the new keys where hacked already. its been posted....


and with more popularity of course comes more demand and with more demand comes more demand for pirated and more instrest in the pirates so pretty much it will be hacked.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 /forum/post/0


There is a lot of difference between putting source CD in top drawer, blank in bottom drawer, loading up Nero and clicking direct copy than defeating AACS and copying a HD DVD (impossible due to the lack of writers and media atm) or BD. CDs have little to no copy protection these days (after the whole Sony XCP rootkit fiasco, they tend to avoid it AFAIK). Currently if you want to break AACS, I think you need a working knowledge of Java and some sort of knowledge of Hex, now to some people that may not seem complicated, but it is much more than you will ever need to copy a CD. Once BD+ is into the mix, the situation will only get worse.

You lost 90% of America when you used the word "source" in the first sentence.
 
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