[HiFiFun]

The purpose of this thread is to highlight local dimming LEDs products. Remember at the store that just because an LCD display uses LED backlighting does not mean it offers superior performance. Insist upon local dimming LED.

At the 2009 CES Samsung disappointed many by introducing LCDs with inferior edge lit LEDs. They selected this technology because its less costly to manufacture. For those who seek the highest levels of performance, the following true LED local dimming products should be considered:


Toshiba 55-inch 55SV760U, May 2009. No price yet


Vizio VF551XVT June 2009, $1999


LG LH90 models

* LG 55LH90 ($TBD) May 2009

* LG 47LH90 ($TBD) May 2009

* LG 42LH90 ($TBD) May 2009


Existing local dimming products are deemphazied for various issues:

Samsung 950 $5000 placed last in Home Theater face-off March 2009 issue

Sony XBR7 at $7000 is priced to high for consideration. Green color cast too.

 

[HiFiFun]

A Masterpiece of Visual Entertainment

The world's slimmest LED-backlit panel with local dimming technology is incorporated into the LG's LH90 series (LH90 and LHX), allowing for an extremely thin design with a built-in tuner. In its LHX line, LG was able to keep the set at an incredible 24.8mm by using silicone lenses to amplify the light while simultaneously increasing backlight quality. In addition, LG's premium LH90 series is the perfect combination of a sleek exterior with unmatched picture quality, a masterpiece of visual entertainment.

http://www.lge.com/about/press_relea.../21064_1.jhtml


Lets hear what LG has to state about LED edge lighting:

"The edge of the backlight unit is located on the side ... compared to (local dimming), but the drawback is lack of quality".


(poor translation):
http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=

 

[HiFiFun]

Toshiba FocaLight LED Backlight with Local Dimming

"Toshiba’s SV Series REGZA models also feature FocaLight LED Backlight with LocalDimming. Unlike simple (read puppy kicker Samsung) edge LED, FocaLight offers a full LED matrix for better brightness uniformity.

Even more important is that the Local Dimming system allows the LEDs to be controlled by zone, creating a significantly higher dynamic contrast ratio, where blacks are blacker without reducing the peak white brightness.

The result is a new level of picture quality and depth that was not possible with standard backlight systems."

http://i.gizmodo.com/5125531/toshiba...d-sv670-series

The 55-inch 55SV760U, and will be available in the US in May! It has all the cutting edge feature anyone could want:
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10134093-100.html

 

[HiFiFun]

"Vizio - The Best in Video Performance

Launching two compelling new technologies, the expanded XVT Series offers more advanced features than any previous VIZIO product line with a complete line of Full HD 1080p performance coupled with both 120Hz and 240Hz with Scanning Backlight.


Using advanced LED backlight control local dimming, the VF551XVT is capable of delivering the brightest highlights and the deepest blacks. Coupled with VIZIO's Mega Dynamic Contrast Ratio these sets can provide a contrast ratio that rivals the performance of the best plasma displays. The use of local dimming to increase overall contrast ratio and picture quality, especially in brightly lit rooms, allows these LED models to exhibit deep, three-dimensional-like images.

VIZIO's Smooth Motion II™ technology steps up the game with 240Hz Refresh Rate in the SV421XVT and SV471XVT for unbelievably flawless video -- frame after frame by eliminating motion blur from fast-action movie sequences.


Every LED and LCD model in the series is outfitted with the Advanced Glare Polarizer (AGP) and Enhanced In-Plane Switching (IPS). AGP provides up to 60% better contrast ratio in bright room environments. Earlier Anti-Glare screens tended to create an overall haze on the TV image; however, VIZIO's solution counteracts the effects of ambient light, while keeping images bright and crystal clear. By reducing the reflections that are produced by ambient light, the overall picture contrast can be preserved. IPS produces truer colors at wider viewing angles ensuring vivid and clear pictures even when sitting off-axis.


VIZIO's advanced HD/SD noise reduction removes noise and artifacts caused by signal compression from cable and satellite providers. Each model is outfitted with multiple HDMI inputs for maximum connectivity with DVD/Blu-ray players, digital cable and satellite set-top boxes, gaming consoles, and HD camcorders. All XVT series sets have a Game Port on the side of the set with inputs (including HDMI) for fast, easy connection of other devices."


Folks, this is what I wanted to hear from the CES. 2009 is going to be a great year for local dimming technology.

http://www.vizio.com/about.aspx?cid=2888&id=1318

 

[agustus]

I saw a CES video of Samsung on youtube. The rep said that it was a "third generation" LED display. She also said it was edge lit. Am I wrong by saying it's not a true 3rd gen display?

 

[michaelearth]

Are there any 40 inch LED backlight models coming out in 09?

 

[HiFiFun]



Quote:
Originally Posted by agustus /forum/post/15523724


I saw a CES video of Samsung on youtube. The rep said that it was a "third generation" LED display. She also said it was edge lit. Am I wrong by saying it's not a true 3rd gen display?

No, but this superficial answer will fool most people.


Samsung has used very high power LEDs in rear projectors for two generations

Samsung has also used local dimming LEDs in flat panels for two generations


However this is the first time Samsung has adapted the high power type of LEDs for an LCD flat panel. So in reality it is there first generation edge lit LED display.


The key is to ask the number of LEDs used in the display. Of course they don't want to tell you this! The higher the LED matrix count the better. In theory the best performance is reached when there is one LED per pixel. But this is neither practical or cost effective. At a minimum ask (better yet research) if its local dimming or edge dimming.


I would stay away from edge dimming for high-performance applications where good black-level is important.


Note too that LEDs will offer a wider color gaumet than traditional fluorescent bulbs. However most display’s color is already over-saturated.

 

[HiFiFun]

Local LED dimming can be used in conjunction with 240Hz frame interpolation as Anand explains:
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/...spx?i=3496&p=2


These new techniques are expected to be hotly contested here in the coming year.

 

[HiFiFun]

Vizio uses 2000 LEDs in its local dimming design. If true, then that is most remarkable:

"Additional benefits of the VF551XVT's backlight array of some 2000 white LEDs includes local dimming for increased

picture contrast as well as reduced edge flicker - side by side comparisons to the fluorescent-backlit VF550XVT were convincing."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2338664,00.asp

 

[Timbelmont]

HiFiFun:


Thanks for taking the time and effort to set-up this thread. I have a built-in bookshelf that takes up to a 40" TV (what I have now) but I really want the local-dimming feature.


Sony hasn't made any (announced) progress on the OLED front with a marketable product, so local dimming seems the only path toward better black levels (for the plasma crowd, there generally isn't anything good under 42").


I continue to use my home theater equipped with a Sim2 projector for "serious" movie watching.


TA

 

[altaguy]

will local dimming completely remove all flashlighting/bleeding issues?

 

[westa6969]

If your going to make self prophetic and self serving SUBJECTIVE and OPINIONATED STATEMENTS how about posting your credentials that support those self serving "OPINIONS" --- for now that's all they are HIFI!

If you have the credentials to determine for AVS members then why don't you tell us your background in your PROFILE --- Give us something other than FLUFF HOT AIR! How about some facts and credentials instead of Opinion FARTS!!!

A Professional ISF'er would not make such statements without having the opportunity to professionally calibrate and then would support their argument with evidence of FACTS from those calibrations and I've seen nothing of the sort on these especially since most are not even in the marketplace to test just yet.

Also, were you at CES to examine these LED Panels or are you simply making assumptions? I'd rather trust a credentialed ISF'er that actually was at CES or an AVS Engineer to make such statements.


It appears your using each manufacturers own self serving marketing literature to make your arguments - If you have not examined these panels personally and you possess no credentials and background in this sector how in the Hell could you begin to be a voice on the matter from a FACTS based OBJECTIVE point of view? I say you have not even seen these panels outside slideshows on the Web personally have you? Have you had a single event where you have ISF tools and experience to put them all to the test to support your Posts?

Your truly regurgitating opposing panel manufacturers marketing bullet points - Were you present to examine these?


A simple answer should suffice of Yes or No. What is your related AV background that should have us believe your soapbox Opinions? Or are you just trying to be the loudest voice in the forest through your redundant posts on the issue?


Are you Joe the Plumber "AV Hobbyist" or Joe the AV Engineer or ISF'er "Professional"?

 

[davegow]

Wes, go for a walk and relax. I find this thread interesting and am glad it's here.

 

[animeXL]



Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun /forum/post/15530669


Vizio uses 2000 LEDs in its local dimming design. If true, then that is most remarkable:

"Additional benefits of the VF551XVT's backlight array of some 2000 white LEDs includes local dimming for increased

picture contrast as well as reduced edge flicker - side by side comparisons to the fluorescent-backlit VF550XVT were convincing."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2338664,00.asp

Yes and so does the Samsung a950. It uses over 2000 LEDs in it's design, However Samsung divides them all into only 64 clusters. This is the way all LD sets are done, there must be appropriate coverage for the entire screen (Sharp is the only exception right now). The Vizio is most likely doing something similar. It'll be interesting to see how good this set actually is, also I wonder whose panel they're using. I would guess it's CMOs new 55" but I've heard that it was an IPS panel so they may be using LGs new panels.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

What was there reasoning behind moving the LED's to the side?(just for thiness?)

It would be a shame if these are found to be lower performing than the a950 and LCD took a step backwards.

 

[vud911]

Very interesting, looks like the lower tier brands are about to go up a few notch, which is nice. Most interesting would be Vizio and their quest to go from a cheapo brand to a high end competitive set be, considering this upcoming set will be their first high end set.

Oh, and anyone got a link to the Face Off 2009? I want to read it.

 

[TVbc]



Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S /forum/post/15531890


What was there reasoning behind moving the LED's to the side?(just for thiness?)

It would be a shame if these are found to be lower performing than the a950 and LCD took a step backwards.

the LED edge backlighting essentially is a replacement for the now-normal CCFL (fluorescent tube) backlights, with certain advantages including potentially (if not currently) cheaper to manufacture, better contrast ratios (real and imagined), wider color gamut, and the ability to turn on and off quickly, and yes the design considerations of thinness.

 

[TVbc]



Quote:
Originally Posted by vud911 /forum/post/15532531


Very interesting, looks like the lower tier brands are about to go up a few notch, which is nice. Most interesting would be Vizio and their quest to go from a cheapo brand to a high end competitive set be, considering this upcoming set will be their first high end set.

Oh, and anyone got a link to the Face Off 2009? I want to read it.

high end ? vizio ?


let's not get carried away.


vizio will never compete, nor wants to, at the cutting edge high end. their whole business model is competing on "value".

 

[vud911]

240hz and local dimming LED from Vizio looks pretty nice at the 2k pricetag. I wouldn't dismiss them just yet.

 

[Sweet Humble Pie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by vud911 /forum/post/15534301


240hz and local dimming LED from Vizio looks pretty nice at the 2k pricetag. I wouldn't dismiss them just yet.

It would be very interesting to know who did the backlight design/manufacture for them, as that's too much like "manufacturing" for an integrator like Vizio (that's not a criticism, BTW).