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But we need some substance in this thread, like in the other New Projector thread.

There's nothing here, so please post up if anyone has seen any of these new ones. I would post my findings concerning a pre-production Samsung LSP9T, tri-laser RGB DLP to get things started, but Nigel said the USTs are in a separate category.

UST is discussed here as well, if I understood Nigel correctly.
Please post your findings, I'm sure many of us are curious.
 
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I'd be really really curios to see contrast measurements on that thing though.
I couldn't measure contrast on the new Samsung LSP9T UST tri-laser DLP projector because my PC with that software was down. Anyway, that LSP9T I had here was a pre-production model, so not all the features were included.

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Its spec'd native sequential contrast is 1,500:1 and that looked about right. However, its dynamic contrast, using dynamic black (DB), is spec'd at 2,000,000:1. Mark H.'s review noted that DB was applicable only for SDR. But on mine, I couldn't see that any dynamic dimming was in play at all. And I'm familiar with how DB operates, from going by my DLP laser PJ, the Optoma UHZ65. On the old firmware on that one, I actually measured over 35,000:1 sequential contrast without the lasers shutting off; that was using the mid level/DB 2 function. I probably would have gotten a higher figure if I used DB level 3, but I found level 2 was the best in terms of avoiding artifacts. The Optoma uses the same XPR chip. Notice the UHZ65's black reading with FW version c.11 in DB2.

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I'm hoping the full-production version of the LSP9T's DB works the same way. And let's see if Samsung will have the same for HDR too. But even without its DB function active, I thought the LSP9T's HDR performance was very impressive.

This is the first certified tri-laser/RGB laser projector to feature HDR10+, which is what Samsung is using as a counterpart/alternative to Dolby Vision. The feature gave the picture a clean, dynamic look. I had it projecting onto a 125 inch white Stewart Cima screen, which has 1.1 gain. Highlights were preserved and dark scenes were filled with details. I set the PJ's Contrast Enhancer to High Mode. There were no issues with the LSP9T's tone mapping that I could spot, even with it being a pre-production sample.

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Projecting just inches away from the screen (has power zoom/focus/positioning), it was incredibly bright, especially in a dark room. It offers many picture settings, including film maker's movie mode, which can tame down that brightness. The images were the sharpest I've seen from projection. But I think you guys would all agree that the highlight of this projector is true RGB/tri-lasers for an MSRP of $6,499.

It does around 147% of DCI P3 and around 107% of BT2020. I said this before; I've never seen colors like that on any display. A few of our friends here were responsive to my finding, what is admittedly a subjective assessment.

One issue raised in the other new projector thread was that if like other projectors, this one is calibrated correctly to DCI P3, why would this one look any different. My response was that the native (filter-less) brightness made all the difference. It's one thing when you see wide color at 1000 lumens; it's another thing when you see it at more than double that. This projector is spec'd at 2800 lumens and at a short throw of inches from a white screen with gain in a dark room...? well, there were times I could have used sunglasses.

Another point concerning the projector's color, also raised in the other thread, ran to the PJ's 107% of BT2020 coverage. I had tested color using content that our own Arrow-AV had previously pointed to as having BT2020 grading with color beyond P3. I did see an improved difference. So, I would dispute any notion that 107% of BT2020 is meaningless due to limited content. For one, there is already some content beyond P3 and for two, having the triple lasers that can display that kind of color width "future proofs" the machine in that regard.

All I have to say is the colors were "wow factor" ridiculous! Seeing them was really a unique experience.
 

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I couldn't measure contrast on the new Samsung LSP9T UST tri-laser DLP projector because my PC with that software was down. Anyway, that LSP9T I had here was a pre-production model, so not all the features were included.

View attachment 3045449

Its spec'd native sequential contrast is 1,500:1 and that looked about right. However, its dynamic contrast, using dynamic black (DB), is spec'd at 2,000,000:1. Mark H.'s review noted that DB was applicable only for SDR. But on mine, I couldn't see that any dynamic dimming was in play at all. And I'm familiar with how DB operates, from going by my DLP laser PJ, the Optoma UHZ65. On the old firmware on that one, I actually measured over 35,000:1 sequential contrast without the lasers shutting off; that was using the mid level/DB 2 function. I probably would have gotten a higher figure if I used DB level 3, but I found level 2 was the best in terms of avoiding artifacts. The Optoma uses the same XPR chip. Notice the UHZ65's black reading with FW version c.11 in DB2.

View attachment 3045450

I'm hoping the full-production version of the LSP9T's DB works the same way. And let's see if Samsung will have the same for HDR too. But even without its DB function active, I thought the LSP9T's HDR performance was very impressive.

This is the first certified tri-laser/RGB laser projector to feature HDR10+, which is what Samsung is using as a counterpart/alternative to Dolby Vision. The feature gave the picture a clean, dynamic look. I had it projecting onto a 125 inch white Stewart Cima screen, which has 1.1 gain. Highlights were preserved and dark scenes were filled with details. I set the PJ's Contrast Enhancer to High Mode. There were no issues with the LSP9T's tone mapping that I could spot, even with it being a pre-production sample.

View attachment 3045444


Projecting just inches away from the screen (has power zoom/focus/positioning), it was incredibly bright, especially in a dark room. It offers many picture settings, including film maker's movie mode, which can tame down that brightness. The images were the sharpest I've seen from projection. But I think you guys would all agree that the highlight of this projector is true RGB/tri-lasers for an MSRP of $6,499.

It does around 147% of DCI P3 and around 107% of BT2020. I said this before; I've never seen colors like that on any display. A few of our friends here were responsive to my finding, what is admittedly a subjective assessment.

One issue raised in the other new projector thread was that if like other projectors, this one is calibrated correctly to DCI P3, why would this one look any different. My response was that the native (filter-less) brightness made all the difference. It's one thing when you see wide color at 1000 lumens; it's another thing when you see it at more than double that. This projector is spec'd at 2800 lumens and at a short throw of inches from a white screen with gain in a dark room...? well, there were times I could have used sunglasses.

Another point concerning the projector's color, also raised in the other thread, ran to the PJ's 107% of BT2020 coverage. I had tested color using content that our own Arrow-AV had previously pointed to as having BT2020 grading with color beyond P3. I did see an improved difference. So, I would dispute any notion that 107% of BT2020 is meaningless due to limited content. For one, there is already some content beyond P3 and for two, having the triple lasers that can display that kind of color width "future proofs" the machine in that regard.

All I have to say is the colors were "wow factor" ridiculous! Seeing them was really a unique experience.
So would you consider purchasing this as your next projector? If not, what are the shortcomings for your scenario? Seems like there is a lot to like here. Shortcomings for my room would be 1)contrast compared to my JVC 2) lag time for gaming and 3)placement (while placement seems great for a family room ... it wouldn't go as well in a dedicated HT room)
 

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So would you consider purchasing this as your next projector? If not, what are the shortcomings for your scenario? Seems like there is a lot to like here. Shortcomings for my room would be 1)contrast compared to my JVC 2) lag time for gaming and 3)placement (while placement seems great for a family room ... it wouldn't go as well in a dedicated HT room)
You have the RS2000/NX7, right? I had the same projector.

I guess if they implement Dynamic Black like I was talking about above, then in a dark room I suppose its shortcoming for me would be that it's too bright. I don't know if you remember Dave Harper, but he was kind enough to bring his BenQ LK990 for me to demo. I thought it was very bright. The LSP9T, however, going by what I recalled of the LK990, subjectively appeared twice as bright.

Martin, I had it in Vivid mode with the auto tone set to low which gave me the best uncal'd image on this one, and lit up the whole room like a mini sun. Remember it's inches away from a white gain screen. It does white balance adjustment and full CMS. So, I'd have to get a good calibration in one of the picture modes with less brightness or use a negative gain screen.

As far as dedicated room placement, you would have to make certain placement or mounting it on the ceiling does not impede sound from your center channel. It does have a ceiling mounting option. Its maximum screen size is 130 inches. It also has powered zoom and positioning adjustment functions in the menu to assist with placement, but the position option I found to be something more that adjusts the interior borders of the actual image. Here's what that menu option looked like on my sample.

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Hopefully a good number of new projectors will come out in 2021. Why not wait to see if JVC places laser in the equivalent of what is now the brand's NX series by then. I really like the long life, laser dimming is less mechanical parts than mechanical dynamic iris and does fade to black, and fewer calibrations of lasers, as well as the way laser ignites the chips. I can only speak for myself, but I'm done with lamps.
Agreed... seems like a bad time to invest in aging lamp tech. I guess we'll see which manufacturers have the most nimble pipeline to take advantage of the pandemic HT opportunity.

Aziz... would you be 1st in line to score a laser NX? Or would you be inclined to wait on some user feedback?
 

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@Aztar35

Thanks for the feedback.
What you say is in line with what I suspected, the sheer brightness (on top of the extra wide coverage) gave you a true woow effect of colors. This is all excellent news however you also say its a mini sun and it might be too bright in cave, which I suspect it would be. So that begs the question if it was calibrated if possible to a much lower light output, would it still blow you mind?
 

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Agreed... seems like a bad time to invest in aging lamp tech. I guess we'll see which manufacturers have the most nimble pipeline to take advantage of the pandemic HT opportunity.
Some people still like the idea of changing a lamp every 2,000 hours or so because it gives them a fresh start in the light source. On the other hand, with a laser, 20,000 to 30,000 hours before half-life could take up to 20 to 30 years (based on likely average hourly use) so that in the fast-paced A/V world, there's the risk projector will be obsolete by then.

Aziz... would you be 1st in line to score a laser NX? Or would you be inclined to wait on some user feedback?
And here my affirmation in one direction or another would escalate not far beyond the precipice of a layman's limitations. Unlike a subject well-rooted in performing that six-stringed instrument --about which I could opine in an all omniscient voice-- the query relegates itself to some misfortune: it leaves me to ascribe little more than a litany of speculation. But it's on that "note" that I hazard my guess.

For me personally, I have my sights set elsewhere. As far as user feedback, my guess is the company is just changing out the light source but it's also a good idea to read reviews and get a grasp of user experiences.
 

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@Aztar35

Thanks for the feedback.
What you say is in line with what I suspected, the sheer brightness (on top of the extra wide coverage) gave you a true woow effect of colors. This is all excellent news however you also say its a mini sun and it might be too bright in cave, which I suspect it would be. So that begs the question if it was calibrated if possible to a much lower light output, would it still blow you mind?
Andrew, I woke this morning not expecting a workout in mental gymnastics. 😊

The LSP9T was definitely bright in Vivid mode coming off my white screen. Accucal tested the screen fabric and asserted it had 1.2 gain while Stewart spec's it as 1.1. My tools were down, so Vivid was used because it appeared most color-accurate.

Now, I did test the same color mode on a .4 gain screen and the color intensity still dazzled but the overall brightness was controlled.
 

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Andrew, I woke this morning not expecting a workout in mental gymnastics. 😊

The LSP9T was definitely bright in Vivid mode coming off my white screen. Accucal tested the screen fabric and asserted it had 1.2 gain while Stewart spec's it as 1.1. My tools were down, so Vivid was used because it appeared most color-accurate.

Now, I did test the same color mode on a .4 gain screen and the color intensity still dazzled but the overall brightness was controlled.
Couldn’t you just use the Panasonic set to one of the high NIT level display options and just have crazy bright specular highlights? The projector doesn’t have a “low mode”?

Since there is no lens memory, how hard do you think it would be to zoom in out for those that don’t have a 16:9 screen (CIH).

How big is the perceived black level difference between this and the NX7? Is the black level on the Samsung better than your Optoma?
 

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Couldn’t you just use the Panasonic set to one of the high NIT level display options and just have crazy bright specular highlights? The projector doesn’t have a “low mode”?
Hello. The LSP9T uses its contrast enhancer to auto tone map. My sample had a low mode and a high mode. There are also other picture modes that brought down the brightness. So, yes the brightness can be controlled. I just used the brightest picture mode because that one was more color accurate.

Since there is no lens memory, how hard do you think it would be to zoom in out for those that don’t have a 16:9 screen (CIH).
I don't know as I didn't experiment with that.

How big is the perceived black level difference between this and the NX7? Is the black level on the Samsung better than your Optoma?
When the image is dark for a while with no highlights, the perceived black level difference, going by memory, is definitely noticeable in favor of the NX7, again this is on my white 1.1 gain screen.

The Optoma comparison. Visually, the native black level on the Samsung is slightly better than the native black level on the Optoma. I had previously measured the laser Optoma's native contrast at 1,420:1. However, the Optoma's dynamic black makes a huge difference. Using dynamic black, I had measured it on FW v. C11 at over 35,000:1 and on the new FW v. C17 at just over 20,000:1. It operates in low ADL and releases in low upper ADL where the Optoma's native contrast is pretty good, making for smooth transitions. That's why I'm hoping the LSP9T's full production release's dynamic black operates similarly.

You mentioned the UB820. If DB engages in SDR only, I'd like to see if mapping in the player to send SDR BT2020 to the PJ will then allow for DB to be active with wide color. I will have to confirm that it can be done on a full production sample.
 

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Couldn’t you just use the Panasonic set to one of the high NIT level display options and just have crazy bright specular highlights? The projector doesn’t have a “low mode”?

Since there is no lens memory, how hard do you think it would be to zoom in out for those that don’t have a 16:9 screen (CIH).

How big is the perceived black level difference between this and the NX7? Is the black level on the Samsung better than your Optoma?
I figure after a week of trying to use this projector to fill your scope screen with scope movies and you will be wanting to throw the projector out the window. It would be that frustrating. :)
 

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Hello. The LSP9T uses its contrast enhancer to auto tone map. My sample had a low mode and a high mode. There are also other picture modes that brought down the brightness. So, yes the brightness can be controlled. I just used the brightest picture mode because that one was more color accurate.



I don't know as I didn't experiment with that.



When the image is dark for a while with no highlights, the perceived black level difference, going by memory, is definitely noticeable in favor of the NX7, again this is on my white 1.1 gain screen.

The Optoma comparison. Visually, the native black level on the Samsung is slightly better than the native black level on the Optoma. I had previously measured the laser Optoma's native contrast at 1,420:1. However, the Optoma's dynamic black makes a huge difference. Using dynamic black, I had measured it on FW v. C11 at over 35,000:1 and on the new FW v. C17 at just over 20,000:1. It operates in low ADL and releases in low upper ADL where the Optoma's native contrast is pretty good, making for smooth transitions. That's why I'm hoping the LSP9T's full production release's dynamic black operates similarly.

You mentioned the UB820. If DB engages in SDR only, I'd like to see if mapping in the player to send SDR BT2020 to the PJ will then allow for DB to be active with wide color. I will have to confirm that it can be done on a full production sample.
It’s crazy with that much brightness that they don’t engage DB. Hopefully they change their mind and implement it. Maybe your dealer can email Samsung lol.
 

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Do ALR or grey screens not work with UST projectors? I have no experience with them, but this projector sounds cool. Seems like fixing brightness would be very easy, if that's the problem? I mean I know a lot of people don't want to also have to buy a new screen, but... wouldn't it also help the contrast?
 

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Could that be that the DB is not engage due to pre production model ? I saw somewhere ( I think krain blog) that samsung actually work with Coretronic ( Optoma ) on the UST. So I would expect that they should behave in the same way?
 

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Do ALR or grey screens not work with UST projectors? I have no experience with them, but this projector sounds cool. Seems like fixing brightness would be very easy, if that's the problem? I mean I know a lot of people don't want to also have to buy a new screen, but... wouldn't it also help the contrast?
Yes, they do work with this and this PJ is intended to be mated to one, but it has to be the proper material. Yes, it's always good to have brightness on the top end to bring down rather than the other way around. That brightness discussion was personal to me because I would use it on a white screen with gain. But another screen, different picture modes or player settings and it's not an issue. I used it on a 2.35:1 white screen with gain and just zoomed it to avoid the black bars on the movie content. On 125 inches, I did not have a perfect fit on the sides but didn't spend too much time adjusting it perfectly to fit either. Still, it could be that it works a better fit on larger screens by using a 16x9 format.

On screen size, it can do only 130 inches diagonal max.

As far as contrast, a screen would not help with actual contrast but would help with the appearance of improving black levels.

Could that be that the DB is not engage due to pre production model ? I saw somewhere ( I think krain blog) that samsung actually work with Coretronic ( Optoma ) on the UST. So I would expect that they should behave in the same way?
That's my thinking.

Yeah, it's also called exactly that, "dynamic black."
 

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What white screen with gain do you plan to use? Most screens with gain require a longer throw distance, to not cause artifacts.
I and the A/V merchant who loaned me the LSP9T discussed the possibility of hot spotting.

What was truly amazing was that the Cima Neve from that short throw with all that brightness had no hot spotting. It was really shocking. Absolutely ZERO! How can this be explained? ...no added sparkles either. Funny thing is when I tested the LSP9T on a .4 gain screen, there was speckle, but not on the Cima Neve. And that's the screen in my review. That screen is really excellent.
 

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I and the A/V merchant who loaned me the LSP9T discussed the possibility of hot spotting.

What was truly amazing was that the Cima Neve from that short throw with all that brightness had no hot spotting. It was really shocking. Absolutely ZERO! How can this be explained? ...no added sparkles either. Funny thing is when I tested the LSP9T on a .4 gain screen, there was speckle, but not on the Cima Neve. And that's the screen in my review. That screen is really excellent.
That's because the screen has the properties of lambertian reflectance. That what you get if you have a rough surface (even if it has very fine roughness) without any gain particles. See also Lambertian reflectance - Wikipedia
 
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