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Denon AVR-2312CI or Pioneer Elite VSX-60?

  • Denon AVR-2312CI

    Votes: 13 86.7%
  • Pioneer Elite VSX-60

    Votes: 2 13.3%
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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,


I currently have an old JVC receiver that's not even worth listing the name/specs of. Suffice it to say I don't have any HDMI on the beast. It's served me well for a while, but I've run out of connection options and functionality. Sound quality is also less than desired. I'm looking into around a $600 price point for a new receiver.


Key features I would like are great sound quality, multiple HDMI inputs, decent ease-of-use with potential for expansion with a universal remote, and best future proofing. AirPlay is also an option, as we not have an iPad. I'm comparing the Denon AVR-2312 and Pioneer Elite VSX-60. I've never owned a Denon product, though I've also thought them to be a more-premium offering. In general, I've been really pleased with the Pioneer products I own, particularly the stunning Kuro plasma I bought, as well as a great 10" compact flat subwoofer in one of my vehicles.


In this case, I'm sure both are very capable receivers, but I'd like to know from actual owners what they like best (and worst) about those models. For example, I've seen that the Denon 3312 [up one model from the 2312] with dual-HDMI outputs has some audio compatibility/adjustability issues (can't delineate different audio sources for each output) which frustrates users.


Specs of my display, peripherals I'd be hooking up:


- Pioneer Plasma PDP-5080HD

- XBox 360 w/HD-DVD attachment

- Sony Blu-Ray BDP-S300 (will likely upgrade soon, though I will find no use for 3D functionality in newer options, I'm not changing my panel)

- Nintendo Wii

- Nintendo NES

- Apple TV

- (would like to add a standalone CD-player)

- Speakers, all Klipsch, currently in 5.0 setup: 2x KG5.5 for mains, 2 KG2.5 for rear surrounds, 1x KG2.5 for center (I can add 2 more KG2.5 to make 7 channels, though I still need a sub...)



Additionally, I'd like to know if I've overlooked other decent options like an Onkyo or a Marantz. Feature-wise, I narrowed down these two listed based on my preferences. Price point is important for me, and the 2312 is on-sale for $599, with the Pioneer in similar range. Thanks in advance!
 

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All but the least expensive of the Denon receivers have Audyssey and can equalize your future subwoofer. Pioneer receivers have MCACC and cannot.
 

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Discussion Starter #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22147571


All but the least expensive of the Denon receivers have Audyssey and can equalize your future subwoofer. Pioneer receivers have MCACC and cannot.

Wow, interesting. So, one would need to adjust subwoofer output to the desired level (in the Pioneer), rather than using the auto-setup microphone for all speakers (such as in the Denon)? Thanks for that info!
 

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Discussion Starter #5

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22148899


He means the Pioneer will not "EQ" the sub ... different from simply setting the proper volume level.

Got it, I think I tried to say the same thing, just didn't come out right ;-)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22149365


Just wanted to confirm as some folks mistakenly think that "EQ"ing simply means setting the proper distance and volume of the sub/speaker as well as thinking they can do the same job as the Auto EQ simply using a SPL meter.

I inserted a "mistakenly" just to make it as clear as possible.



Many subwoofers and many rooms can seriously distort the amplitudes of different low frequency sounds. They may sound great for explosions, but not so good terrible for music. Equalizing them (making them more accurate) can help a lot, as can placing a subwoofer in the correct position in the room.
 

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Discussion Starter #9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Lee  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22151975


sus'ed as I'm in the same boat now and dont want to start another thread.

Excellent, join the party! The subwoofer adjustment discussion was interesting, and something I clearly had not gleaned from reading the specs.


Are there other similar-caliber receivers that I'm overlooking as viable options, perhaps a Marantz option? Or are those better-suited for audio applications? Specifically, I noticed that the Marantz SR6006 has only 3 audio-video inputs, but 8 audio-only inputs. Whereas the Denon 2312 has 8 audio-video inputs and only 2 audio-only. Is that therefore a correct assumption, in general?
 

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Keeping away from the original thread (LOL), nice collection of "vintage" Klipsch speakers. I have had a pair of KG 3.5's for 15 years hooked up to several Sony ES (1-old prologic GA7ES, 1- DA3300ES, 1- TAE/N9000ES separates), and a Yamaha RXV-2600. With all of them I found the towers were very "bright" leading up to "harsh" with some material. Pioneer IMO is known for a bright sound so matching up with them might be a little much. I love the Denon/Marantz "twins" (I know, much debate here, but the reality is they ARE). I am actually thinking about doing either an AV7500, or SR7500 myself.



I just got 2 KG2.5's (thanks CL) and a KG2.2v. I actually (initially) preferred the KG2.5's as the mains as they are somewhat more "laid back" than the 3.5's ( I DO have a Klipsch Sub10 so no issue in the LFE dept.). My goal was to have a "matching" 3 across soundstage, the 2.5/2.2v matches up perfectly.


Of course, my current setup does not use any "calibration" (in fact, it is ALL analog for bluray, DVD audio, and SACD).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDoctor15  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22158265


Are there other similar-caliber receivers that I'm overlooking as viable options, perhaps a Marantz option? Or are those better-suited for audio applications? Specifically, I noticed that the Marantz SR6006 has only 3 audio-video inputs, but 8 audio-only inputs. Whereas the Denon 2312 has 8 audio-video inputs and only 2 audio-only. Is that therefore a correct assumption, in general?

To first approximation, the digital audio electronics in Marantz and Denon equipment is the same: many of their current products use the same circuit boards. Their advertising does mention differences in the design of their analog circuitry, but it can be (and has been) argued that so long as their distortion levels are well below human auditory levels, they'll sound the same.


That said, the two product lines do tend to be marketed to different audiences, so the number and types of input and output connections differ, as do some of their menu options. Marantz includes separates (preamp/processor and amps) in their product line, while Denon currently does not. And their enclosures look different!
 

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Discussion Starter #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfbar1  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22158462


...I love the Denon/Marantz "twins" (I know, much debate here, but the reality is they ARE)...

If I read correctly somewhere... they have the same parent company, no?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDoctor15  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22159811

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfbar1  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22158462


...I love the Denon/Marantz "twins" (I know, much debate here, but the reality is they ARE)...

If I read correctly somewhere... they have the same parent company, no?

Yes.


The same parent company owns Denon, Marantz, McIntosh, Boston Acoustics, Snell Acoustics, and several other home entertainment companies. Up until last month, the company name was "D&M Holdings". A name change to "D+M Group" was announced a few weeks ago. See http://www.cepro.com/article/dm_holdings_rebrands_as_dm_group/
 

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Yes, D&M Holdings is the parent company of both.


I just got a Marantz SR6006, and am in love with it. I wanted Marantz since I was a tyke, so to finally own one is a source of some pride. The current prices on the 6006 and the 5006 make them very attractive, as the new models were just announced, although they will not ship until July or so.


The 6006 has 7 HDMI inputs and 2 outs, as well as a legacy phono input, if you still have some vinyl, or if you are part of the resurgance. The newer models don't add much, other than 4k pass-through. IMO, that is currently unnecessary, as we are a few years from mass adoption of 4k. ASFAIK, there isn't even currently a consumer-level 4k source available, just displays.


The 6006 will stretch your budget, however. Currently somewhere around $800, although deals can be found!


The only thing the 6006 lacks for me is the highest level of Audyssey, as it has MultiEQ XT, not XT32. Currently no Marantz offers XT32, although it can be found on some higher-end Denons.


Here is a link to the 6006: http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&SubCatId=0&ProductId=SR6006


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #15

Quote:
Originally Posted by McSpike  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22159875


Yes, D&M Holdings is the parent company of both.

I just got a Marantz SR6006, and am in love with it. I wanted Marantz since I was a tyke, so to finally own one is a source of some pride. The current prices on the 6006 and the 5006 make them very attractive, as the new models were just announced, although they will not ship until July or so.

The 6006 has 7 HDMI inputs and 2 outs, as well as a legacy phono input, if you still have some vinyl, or if you are part of the resurgance. The newer models don't add much, other than 4k pass-through. IMO, that is currently unnecessary, as we are a few years from mass adoption of 4k. ASFAIK, there isn't even currently a consumer-level 4k source available, just displays.

The 6006 will stretch your budget, however. Currently somewhere around $800, although deals can be found!

The only thing the 6006 lacks for me is the highest level of Audyssey, as it has MultiEQ XT, not XT32. Currently no Marantz offers XT32, although it can be found on some higher-end Denons.

Here is a link to the 6006: http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&SubCatId=0&ProductId=SR6006

Mike

Thanks for the clarification. I was reading the specs off of the Crutchfield website and it seems that they reversed the number of audio-video inputs/outputs with audio only... Oh well, guess the Marantz website is "straight from the horse's mouth!" I had not considered the Marantz as much up until now, but it seems that may provide the best options for my desired setup. Additionally, once I have a house with multi-room wiring options, it will be great to expand into multiple zones. Well, when I can convince my wife, looks like the SR6006 is the choice for me!
 

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Discussion Starter #17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Lee  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22163501


Go straight to the Denon 3312. I just picked one up BNIB for $660 shipped.

Yes, I saw similar deals as well. So, you don't have an issues/complaints with it? I had read reviews with users reporting firmware issues, HDMI issues, as well as the inability to broadcast digital audio to other zones (analog only). Additionally, folks weren't really happy with the remote.


I also like the 'look' of the Marantz a bit better than the Denon models... Though the price is nearly $200 more, even with discounts (I've been looking on Crutchfield.com).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDoctor15  /t/1416417/new-600ish-receiver-denon-avr-2312-or-pioneer-elite-vsx-60#post_22182908


Yes, I saw similar deals as well. So, you don't have an issues/complaints with it? I had read reviews with users reporting firmware issues, HDMI issues, as well as the inability to broadcast digital audio to other zones (analog only). Additionally, folks weren't really happy with the remote.

I also like the 'look' of the Marantz a bit better than the Denon models... Though the price is nearly $200 more, even with discounts (I've been looking on Crutchfield.com).

I just got a 3313 and am happy with it, but I haven't tried all of those things you mentioned above. I really doubt that the 3312 is going to suffer all sorts of issues while the 2312 is issue-free, as they are very similar receivers.
 

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I am also trying to decide between the 2312 and the vsx-60.


I am wanting a receiver that will run 5.1 HT audio in the Den (Zone 1) and 4 pairs of speakers from 4 other rooms (Zone 2). I want to have the option to play any combination of the other 4 rooms, for example - just room 1 with rooms 2-4 off, rooms 1 & 3 with rooms 2 & 4 off, or all rooms on. I do not need multi-source for the 4 rooms as they will all be playing the same source. I would also like to control the volume in zone 2 with the receiver & iphone app.


From the little research that I have done, it looks like I can accomplish this with both the 2312 or the vsx-60 and an external amp/speaker selector combination connected to zone 2. Is this correct? Other than the fact that the vsx-60 cannot EQ the sub as mentioned above, are there any other major differences b/w the two receivers. I can get the vsx-60 for about $115 less than the 2312.
 
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