AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 66 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,066 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Given the demand for both lens-high (original) and down-shifted (OEM) 16:9 (see the Panamorph Option thread), I’ve managed to come up with a modified, single design that will provide both without compromise. The projector still needs to be tilted up to move the image up, but the new approach will allow the image aspect ratio to be tuned in for an exact 16:9 ratio throughout the range of vertical image shift. There will still be the slight keystoning when the projector is tilted as with the original version, but the residual distortion is quite small throughout the entire range. There will be an additional set of adjustment knobs on the side of the Panamorph to perform this aspect ratio tuning operation.


This week we will be beginning operations in a new manufacturing facility dedicated to the Panamorph production complete with its own CNC equipment so that we can minimize the continued drama of working with outside sources (yes, even our latest machining vendor now has “issuesâ€) and also so that occasional changes can be quickly implemented. Even assuming that we have continued glitches as the process settles, we expect the second batch of Panamorph units to begin deliveries inside three weeks. This second batch will include the additional “shiftable 16:9†feature discussed above as well as other changes to facilitate assembly.


Herein is the standard dilemma of shipping products when revisions are contemplated. Always trying to keep things simple, this is the plan. Those later in the queue will get the revised unit (Model P752) right about as planned (all units ordered prior to June to ship by the end of July). Those earlier in the queue have a choice. While quantities of the first batch of “original†(Model P751) Panamorphs last, customers can choose to take the original or wait for the P752 with the same priority. As each new P751 unit becomes available, I will contact the next person on the list to determine which option is of interest.



------------------

Shawn Kelly

Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,129 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Thanks Shawn. This sounds like it will be very nice. Hopefully this new modified Panamorph won't impact the Panamorph II delivery too much. I am very much looking forward to both lens. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


With the new lens it sounds like I would be able to keep the original (smaller) image drop ratio but now get an exact 16x9 picture? Then with the Panamorph II, the 2.35 movies will be able to have an image top lower than the Panamorph I so the 2.35 movies will be centered top to bottom on the 16x9 screen. Does that sound right?


Ben


[This message has been edited by Ben (edited 06-18-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Ben (edited 06-18-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,295 Posts
Any comment or picture regarding what difference this new mod makes in terms of size? That would affect my decision, and I think I'm near the top of the list.


Thanks, Shawn.




------------------

Lex MC1/Sunfire CG/Hales Rev3's x3/M&K SS150 tripoles/Quadscan/Plus UP1100/Homemade screen
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,066 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Manny, the new facility is in Farmington Hills. So after we get things a little smoother in a couple weeks perhaps you could come visit!


Ben, the internal manufacturing capability will keep us on target for PII. I pretty much knew that we would not begin manufacturing development on PII until July. We may still need to see a few more orders on PII to justify the production, but we are close. Also, I think you could probably set up the PI/PII like you say, although I can't tell you exactly where to position the PI image yet. The key is that, yes, you can position it anywhere within the vertical image range and have correct 16:9.


PAP, the modified version will look very similar to the original. The bracket will be smaller just to save on some weight.


Bob, the "prior to June" comment refers to all orders prior to June, 2001. In other words, internal manufacturing will allow us to take care of the entire preorder list inside of two months (assuming other vendors keep up their end).




------------------

Shawn Kelly

Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,129 Posts
Just rereading this... So the new version will have the same .048 drop or will it have the new .08 drop?

Thanks!


Adding: I would love to get out of Hell for a visit. Thanks!


------------------

The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!

Our Silent Angels

Please visit The Manny Page!


[This message has been edited by Man E (edited 06-18-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,159 Posts
Bob,


I think he meant June as in June '01.


"The projector still needs to be tilted up to move the image up, but the new approach will allow the image aspect ratio to be tuned in for an exact 16:9 ratio throughout the range of vertical image shift. There will still be the slight keystoning when the projector is tilted as with the original version"


Shawn, I wasn't planning on tilting the projector up in the first place. I was planning on having the 9" drop.


Are you now saying that the Pj must be tilted up, or only tilted up to get a perfect 16:9 ratio image at top of screen?


With a projector tilted up, how will that affect the Panamorph 2.35 lens? Will the same "tunable" feature be implemented into the P2?


Chris
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,066 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Manny, good question! The new version actually has an image drop of 0.075 x throw without tilting the projector. I don't think this will change much now since the optics design is already being converted to the mechanical.


Chris, the original Panamorph produces an exact 16:9 ratio with the projector tilted up so the image top is at the level of the uncompressed image. If the projector is not tilted, the compression is slightly less (about 78% instead of 75%). The new version can be adjusted to produce the exact ratio within the entire tilt range. I'll probably integrate this same tuning feature into the 2.35.


------------------

Shawn Kelly

Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Thanks Shawn,


Is the drop measured from the top of the projector's lens, middle or bottom? Which leads me to also ask: is the Panny assembly in-line with the projector's lens, or will the image leaving the Pannies leave at a point lower than projector lens level? I guess what I'm asking is: where do you start calculating the drop from?


Thanks again.


Luca


------------------

PICTURES OF MY THEATER
albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1659592&a=12715694&f=0
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,815 Posts
Shawn Kelly-


Per the private email I sent this afternoon, I would like the Model P752 (revised Panamorph I 1.78 lens) with the "exact 16:9 ratio throughout the range of vertical image shift", and "additional set of adjustment knobs on the side of the Panamorph to perform this aspect ratio tuning operation."


(Exact quotes are to prevent misinterpretation on my part, confusing other readers- and myself! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif ).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
Hi Shawn,


I like the design of the P752, and I will wait for it. According to your message, you will notify me when the P751 is ready for me, then I need to let you know my decision. Am I right? Can you tell me how many person shall I shift down starting from this point if I prefer P752?


Xiaoyu,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,840 Posts
thanks for the design change reaction Shawn. In case you're keeping relative numbers on the decisions, I'll be taking the new adjustable 752 model when you e-mail


thanks again-


ken
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
704 Posts
Not to be a complete moron, but could someone give a definitive answer as to what reference the “drop†is calculated from?


The calculator notes explain that the Panamorph calculator gives “the vertical distance from the Panamorph image top to the original image top…to show where the image top will be before and after installationâ€.


a) Is the “original image†a full 4x3 image directly out of the projector lens?


b) And/or can the drop be calculated from some lens-based location (top, mid, bottom), per the question in Luca’s post?


Thanks a lot!

-Jeff



[This message has been edited by Jeff J (edited 06-18-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Jeff J (edited 06-18-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
Shawn

Will the P752 still have the same variable compression ratios avaliable (1:66-1:85) as per the P751 ?

Because I am curious and because my brain is old and maths was a long time ago, what will be the ideal drop with no tilt to "central a 2:35 image" with the Panamorph 2 on a 1:78 screen ? (not to be confused with what drop the 2:35 Panamorph 2 actually is (.083 )

(.075 = 1:78 , ?? = 2:35)


When will the first of the P751 ship ?


DavidW


[This message has been edited by David Wallis (edited 06-18-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
574 Posts
Shawn,


Now, with your new changes, I'm switching back to the 'adjusted' or newest version P752. This seems to be the best of both worlds.


I, also, would like to see manufacturing etc. if possible - I live in Ann Arbor and would be willing to visit if you are able.


Brian



------------------

Our Home Theater - http://www.fatbulldog.com

Last updated 5/25/01
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,066 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Jeff, Luca. The nominal place to measure from is the center of the lens and then assume an initial downward shift of about 20mm to 35mm from there to consider other variables. Each projector shoots differently from its projection lens, just as each projector may or may not put the top edge of a 4:3 image at the center lens height. Consequently, we can't provide accuracy on exactly where the compressed image top will be for all scenarios. However, you will be able to slightly tilt the Panamorph to fine tune the vertical position once everything else is set up.


------------------

Shawn Kelly

Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,270 Posts
Most presentation projectors are set up so that the bottom of the image is aligned with the lens when the projector is perpendicular to the screen. It also allows for the case where the projector to is ceiling mounted and the top of the image is aligned with the lens of the projector. This gives the most headroom for low ceilings. Adding drop to the throw results in the need to lower the screen which reduces headroom.


Tilting the projector with respect to the screen to raise or lower the projected image adds keystone distortion, but may be unavoidable for a given application.


I've tried to demonstrate the concept below with a table mounted projector. The angle is much much larger than would be produced with projector. (It seems that extra spaces are removed when displayed on the web page, so this little ASCII pic will not make any sense. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif )


/

_ /

| /

| /

|\\ /

| |-------------------------------------------------

|/

|

_|



_________________________________________________________



The Panamorph lens will shift the image as well as compress it. So, if you have already mounted your projector aligned with the top of your screen you may need to tilt the projector (adds keystone) or lower your screen.



There are other arrangements that are used for rear projection or cases where the projector is roughly aligned with the center of the screen. Some projectors provide a lens shift feature that moves the image up and down relative to the projector to accommodate cases where the projector is not aligned with the top or bottom of the screen. This is preferable to digital keystone correction, but adds complexity to the optics and is not as common as it should be.



[This message has been edited by JoeFloyd (edited 06-18-2001).]
 
1 - 20 of 66 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top