AVS Forum banner
  • Get an exclusive sneak peek into our new project. >>> Click Here

New amplifier

2447 Views 20 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  m. zillch
Hello!

Want a new stereo amplifier with ht by pass for my Audiovector qr5.

Should i go for analog like Yamaha a s2200 or digital like moon or Hegel?

Cheers :)
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Hello!

Want a new stereo amplifier with ht by pass for my Audiovector qr5.

Should i go for analog like Yamaha a s2200 or digital like moon or Hegel?

Cheers :)
Forget the Yamaha go w/a Luxman 505uXII. :) 馃憤
Just like with bi-wiring and passive bi-amping, "HT bypass" is a marketing scam. It is a fancy name for what it actually is: bi-preamping. That is, using two preamps in a system instead of one.

The claimed logic behind its existence is that using the existing analog stereo inputs on an AVR or prepro "can't possible work well (without audible compromise) for stereo devices. . . . so one needs to purchase a secondary preamp just for those 2ch sources." This premise is wrong. The stereo analog inputs on the AVR/prepro are just fine and if the user doesn't want to apply digital signal manipulations, such as EQ, that's fine too; they almost always have a button to instantly disengage all that digital stuff called "Pure Direct" on most brands.

The notion that a competent multi channel AVR/Prepro company can make a 5.1 channel (or more) preamp section, but then for some magical reason when one turns off all but two of those multiple channels (to reproduce just plain stereo) it suddenly becomes "junky" is laughable.

For people not familiar with the block diagram for what HT bypass really is, I made one. Note, there are slight differences depending on the particular gear being used but here's the basic signal flow:


3150122


Smart people examining the diagram usually come to realize: "Oh I get it. 'HT bypass' is really just an A/B switch, shown in the dashed box, which alternates if my amplification stage is fed by one of two different preamps: the one in the AVR or the new, redundant, secondary preamp. . . . Yes, that's 'bi-preamping'. "

Just like the vast majority of speakers now have bi-wiring binding posts, even though in truth it provides no audible benefit, many if not most preamps and integrated amps now have 'HT bypass' buttons even though they too are questionable.

As with bi-wiring and passive bi-amping, dealers love this myth because it potentially doubles their profits.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 2
HT bypass can be a good thing but you need to make sure you prefer the 2ch sound of that piece to that of the AVR/AVP you are using. Its about preference.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Another reason to avoid bi-preamping, oops, I mean "HT bypass", is because it makes the proper use of a subwoofer a nightmare, or you have to accept some silly marketing lie such as: "Subwoofers should only be used for multichannel material but not 2ch." The problem is (as you'll see in my diagram) that there's no accommodation for switching the feed to the subwoofer from the two distinct preamps, just one. [And no, you can't simply merge them together by using a y-cord. See Rane's white paper "Why not wye?" to learn why.]

No sub for you!
  • Like
Reactions: 2
I don't bother w/HT pass through. I use my power amp. The RCA interconnects from my Bryston amp go to my Luxman CL38u SE tube preamp the balanced interconnects go to my Krell HT processor. Just switch the amp to channel the sound. :) 馃憤
Just like with bi-wiring and passive bi-amping, "HT bypass" is a marketing scam. It is a fancy name for what it actually is: bi-preamping. That is, using two preamps in a system instead of one.

The claimed logic behind its existence is that using the existing analog stereo inputs on an AVR or prepro "can't possible work well (without audible compromise) for stereo devices. . . . so one needs to purchase a secondary preamp just for 2ch sources." This premise is wrong. The stereo analog inputs on the AVR/prepro are just fine and if the user doesn't want to apply digital signal manipulations, such as EQ, that's fine too; they almost always have a button to instantly disengage all that digital stuff called "Pure Direct" on most brands.

The notion that a competent multi channel AVR/Prepro company can make a 5.1 channel (or more) preamp section, but then for some magical reason when one turns off all but two of those channels (to reproduce just plain stereo) it suddenly becomes "junky" is laughable.

For people not familiar with the block diagram for what HT bypass really is, I made one. Note, there are slight differences depending on the particular gear being used but here's the basic signal flow:


View attachment 3150122

Smart people examining the diagram usually come to realize: "Oh I get it. 'HT bypass' is really just an A/B switch, shown in the dashed box, which alternates if my amplification stage is fed by one of two different preamps: the one in the AVR or the new secondary preamp. . . . Yes, that's 'bi-preamping'. "

Just like the vast majority of speakers now have bi-wiring binding posts, even though in truth it provides no audible benefit, many if not most preamps and integrated amps now have 'HT bypass' buttons even though they too are questionable.

Just like with bi-wiring and passive bi-amping, dealers love this myth because it potentially doubles their profits.
I am the last person on the planet to buy into stereo snake oil. However my Marantz 7702mk2 sounds like it died compared to the Krell KRC that is being used for 2ch. The Krell sounds alive and has a massive soundstage. It's like the difference of seeing a good photo of a work of art and seeing it in person.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
I am the last person on the planet to buy into stereo snake oil. However my Marantz 7702mk2 sounds like it died compared to the Krell KRC that is being used for 2ch. The Krell sounds alive and has a massive soundstage. It's like the difference of seeing a good photo of a work of art and seeing it in person.
Since your Krell doesn't , to the best of my knowledge, have a HT bypass button it is unclear to me how you are doing the A/B comparison. Did you buy a switch? What kind? Are you instead going by memory? Is the comparison sighted or blind? Did you level match the two and if so to what accuracy? How do you know the Marantz isn't broken?
Is the largest soundstage always the goal or is it possible a preamp can be flawed because it exaggerates the width of the sound stage in which case the Krell is the inferior product (in regards to sound stage width reproduction)?
So instead to go with a stereo amplifier to get better sound in stereo it's a better option to get a 5ch poweramp?

Will not a stereo amp be alot better for the 2ch when im listen to music?
Will not a stereo amp be alot better for the 2ch when im listen to music?
That may be the prevalent view but the thing is multichannel units are deceptively inexpensive for several reasons I can elaborate on, including the economy of scale, and once we hit a certain quality tier their preamp sections typically no longer differ audibly from one another in properly conducted, scientifically controlled testing.
So instead to go with a stereo amplifier to get better sound in stereo it's a better option to get a 5ch poweramp?
Since two seater cars have faster acceleration than four seaters, does this mean the dealer's suggestion we really should buy both and switch between them depending on how many people are going on that particular trip that day, make sense?

News flash: 4 passenger cars work great at carrying 2 people and 5 channel preamps work great at reproducing fewer than all 5 channels, including just 2.
Hello!

Want a new stereo amplifier with ht by pass for my Audiovector qr5.

Should i go for analog like Yamaha a s2200 or digital like moon or Hegel?

Cheers :)
You provided no information about the components you are utilizing now and whether you wish to purchase an integrated amplifier or separates for analog use only (such as playing vinyl) or will be connecting digital sources to the stereo gear. Are you thinking about obtaining analog stereo gear and adding to it an outboard DAC? There are many options available that need to be considered. Knowing this info and your goals will help others here to offer informed suggestions.

Do you have access to brands beyond Yamaha, Simaudio (Moon), and Hegel? It would great if you have local audio shops that can loan you demo gear for overnight auditions at home, or dealers that will fully refund your money if you do not like the product.

Also, it would be helpful to know what, if anything, in your current system displeases you and what you may be trying to improve.
Today im driving my system with yamaha 2060.
Will mainly want to stream my music from spotify/qubuz.

Yea the yamaha are not the only option but seems the yamaha are very well built!
I had Yamaha receivers for years. When I needed a technology upgrade to newer HDMI/HDCP protocols I switched to Denon/Marantz breifly but then switched back to Yamaha. They get the ergonomics right, even things as simple as a volume control can be poorly done but they get it right. Their advertising/marketing/gimmicks/enhancements are all silly, frivolous shtick, but luckily you can turn all of it off (or most of it) and what's left, the raw components, are quite good.
Today im driving my system with yamaha 2060.
Will mainly want to stream my music from spotify/qubuz.

Yea the yamaha are not the only option but seems the yamaha are very well built!
If you are utilizing surround modes (such as DTS Neo:6 Music, for example) when streaming I would stay with your Yamaha AV receiver.

If your streaming is primarily in a stereo mode, go ahead and try a high-performance integrated amp, as you originally suggested. You may or may not prefer its sound quality versus your Yamaha. Only through in-home testing can you find out whether a stereo integrated amplifier will outperform your receiver to a worthwhile degree.

In my experience over many years, I typically find myself auditioning at home at least two components before one impresses me enough to keep it.

I agree with you about Yamaha. We have several Yamaha AV receivers currently in use in our house. All have been totally reliable.
Since your Krell doesn't , to the best of my knowledge, have a HT bypass button it is unclear to me how you are doing the A/B comparison. Did you buy a switch? What kind? Are you instead going by memory? Is the comparison sighted or blind? Did you level match the two and if so to what accuracy? How do you know the Marantz isn't broken?
Is the largest soundstage always the goal or is it possible a preamp can be flawed because it exaggerates the width of the sound stage in which case the Krell is the inferior product (in regards to sound stage width reproduction)?
I run my 2ch inputs to the Krell, video to the Marantz then video l-r to the Krell from the 7702.
I run my 2ch inputs to the Krell, video to the Marantz then video l-r to the Krell from the 7702.
The Krell KRC has the phono stage, it is considered by some to be Krell's best preamp ever. As far as sound quality, this Krell passes the goosebump test. I was lucky to have a friend for 30 years that into ultra hi end audio when he passed he left me his stereo. No way could I afford a preamp like the Krell. I mentioned soundstage but that is only a part of the whole experience. I don't have the vocabulary to convey it . But you know it when you experience it.
The Krell KRC has the phono stage, it is considered by some to be Krell's best preamp ever. As far as sound quality, this Krell passes the goosebump test. I was lucky to have a friend for 30 years that into ultra hi end audio when he passed he left me his stereo. No way could I afford a preamp like the Krell. I mentioned soundstage but that is only a part of the whole experience. I don't have the vocabulary to convey it . But you know it when you experience it.
I guess a way I could convey the difference between the two is like when you get a new pair of glasses, the old ones seemed to be fine but when you put the new ones on you realize what you were missing.
I run my 2ch inputs to the Krell, video to the Marantz then video l-r to the Krell from the 7702.
If I understand correctly you are cascading preamps so when listening to material from the Marantz you aren't hearing just the Marantz preamp circuit but rather the sound that's passed through the Marantz first and then the Krell.
If I understand correctly you are cascading preamps so when listening to material from the Marantz you aren't hearing just the Marantz preamp circuit but rather the sound that's passed through the Marantz first and then the Krell.
Only for l-r video. The Krell handles all 2ch audio Turntable, CD, Open reel tape, cassette FM Tuner. I am using a pair of sealed subs for audio and 8 LLT subs for video.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top