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OK, I was a prequel hater. I thought it did a terrible job of showing the creation of Darth Vader (what Lucas said it was about.)


I rewatched it this weekend. It does a great job of showing the rise of Palpatine! Focusing on that angle, I was much more interested in the Phantom Menace. The quick shots of Palpatine manuevering his plan into place, in all 3 movies, are great!


I can probably edit the 3 movies down to a 3-4 hour movie focusing on the rise of Palpatine!
 

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I agree, though I think you get more like 45 minutes of good Palpatine stuff - not 3-4 hours.


What I sometimes wonder is how much of the issue is the acting, and how much is the storytelling. Ian McDiarmid does a wonderful job in the preqs, while Hayden Christensen is abysmal. The "I killed them all" scene in Clones is *the* key scene in the whole becoming-Vader story. I'm convinced Hayden modeled his performance on Elmer Fudd's "I killed the wabbit" tearfest - and even then blew it.
 

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It's long been my view that the fundamental flaw in the prequels is that the story of Anakin isn't interesting at all. He's no hero, he's not a good villain, he's not the key to the fall of the Republic or the rise of the Empire, he's a laughably bad romantic lead...he's not much of anything. That's a FATAL flaw for a story that's supposed to be about him.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
It's long been my view that the fundamental flaw in the prequels is that the story of Anakin isn't interesting at all. He's no hero, he's not a good villain, he's not the key to the fall of the Republic or the rise of the Empire, he's a laughably bad romantic lead...he's not much of anything. That's a FATAL flaw for a story that's supposed to be about him.
I agree; that's a spot-on assessment. If you don't buy the presumed motivation; if the writer can't craft it and the actor can't sell it, you're not going to buy the end result. I just didn't buy Anakin's transformation from good-guy Jedi to uber-bad guy willing to even slaughter younglings to advance Palpentine's wishes. Didn't ring true. And both actors who played him (Lloyd and Christensen) were not very talented. Lloyd, in fact, may be the worst child actor of all time. :eek:
 

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Allot of people beat up on Hayden for his role as Anakin in 2 and 3, but I don’t think you can really put the blame on him. How can it be his fault when the character itself is the problem?


Without a doubt the "creation of Vader" was not what everyone expected... or shall we say... wanted. And Anakin is a unlikable character. You cant really like the guy for all his power and potential. I don’t think any actor can change the perception of that. In the end no one will like Anakin and that’s Lucas’s fault.


I liked EP3 by the way, although I know it could have been waaaaaay better.
 

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Palpatine literally "created" Anakin (there was no "father" - it was Palpatine, made obvious when he was talking to Anakin in III about being so powerful you could control midiclorians and create life, etc.), and then "created" Vader by influencing Anakin.


I don't think he was supposed to be a hero - just a powerful Jedi that would go on to affect the balance of the force.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri
Palpatine literally "created" Anakin (there was no "father" - it was Palpatine, made obvious when he was talking to Anakin in III about being so powerful you could control midiclorians and create life, etc.), and then "created" Vader by influencing Anakin.
Your statement is pure speculation. There is no proof that Palpatine is actually the creator of Anakin. It’s a good argument, but it was never said in the movie or the novel.
 

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But what about the "virgin birth"? How does that get reconciled in the story? Did Palpentine somehow impregnate Shmi without her knowledge thereby making himself Anakin's father?
 

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IMHO, he wasn't the "father" in the normal sense, but from the way he talked to Anakin about being having the power to control midiclorians, sustain life, even create it - and from the fact that Anakin came from a "virgin birth", the moment I saw Palpatine saying those things (knowing he was the Sith lord), I knew he was the one. That's my opinion anyway.
 

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To me, the problem with the prequels is that out of almost seven

hours of film, there's only about an hour of real story. In short,

they're booooooorrrrrrriiiiing.


Lucas wanted 3 films, however, and he just (IMO) started the story

of Anakin WAY too early. Literally NOTHING of consequence happens

in "Phantom Menace", almost nothing happens in "Clones", and I didn't

bother to see "Sith" (fool me 3 times....).


I can't really blame the actors. But God, how awful is Natalie Portman in these?

Ugh.

After the prequels, I've really come to a new understanding and appreciation

of how good the cast is in the original trilogy. Same bad writing, but they REALLY

make it work!
 

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Palpatine claims Darth Plagueis had the power to do this. So was it Palpatine who created Anakin or Plagueis? Palpatine did lead Anakin to believe he has the know-how on bringing the dead to life, but then later he tells Anakin (after he turns), he will figure out the secret with his help, implying he does not actually know how to do this. There is no proof that he was the one who was able to do this. But this is all in theory, and AFAIK, Lucasfilm has not commented on that. Perhaps it will be revealed in the future.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by megaman_y
Your statement is pure speculation. There is no proof that Palpatine is actually the creator of Anakin. It’s a good argument, but it was never said in the movie or the novel.
It was implied.
 

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Arguing about the prequels at this point is moot. They are completed and over. They're not going to change. They are what they are. So you deal with it and move onto new films. If you didn't like them, there's always the original three. If you did like them, well, you've got all the Star Wars films to enjoy.


At this point, nothing can be said that hasn't been said at least a thousand times already. I thought TPM and AOTC were pretty good films, though not what they could have been. ROTS is actually a very good, though not entirely perfect film. A big improvement over the first two in almost all aspects. There are three real weaknesses that kept these films from being all they could be.


1. The weak scripts. Lucas doesn't like writing nor is he good with dialogue, according to his own admission. This is where the real weakness lies. A great screenwriter could have vastly improved the dialogue, made the story tighter, and enhanced character development.


2. Lucas never really had these films mapped out in any detail, and he really made quite a bit of it up on the fly.


3. Lucas admitted in recent interviews he felt obligated to make these films, and would have rather done the kind of films he loves. But he's like a man trapped by his own creation, and seemingly can't let it go. He claims he's glad it's over and wants to do smaller, different projects. We'll see if he can remove himself from Star Wars and do that. So in the end, Lucas didn't really want to do these films, by some of his recent statements.


THat's about all I will add. I've regurgitated this same thing at least a dozen times. Everything else said here has been repeated elsewhere so many times on this and other forums, that it's gotten sad. It's time to move on and stop harping on these prequels.
 

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Terrell, lie down here and tell me why harping on the prequels bothers you so much.

:p
 

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Quote:
Terrell, lie down here and tell me why harping on the prequels bothers you so much.
Here's a funny story along those lines: Someone posted that while he was watching ROTS in the theater, some people in the audience started giggling at the awful dialog. Someone shouted "if you don't like it, you can leave!". Sounds like certain people I see post. :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrell
They're not going to change.
They'll be in a constant state of change.


I mean after all we are talking about Star Wars films made by George Lucas.


Even for the prequels, the projected film versions were changed slightly for the digitally projected versions which were again changed for the DVD versions.


Sanjay
 

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Quote:
They'll be in a constant state of change.
Good point. And even if they didn't change, who says you can't discuss a film once it's done? Does Terrell want to shut off all discussion of, say, The Godfather or Ben Hur or any other film that's "not going to change"?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwalt
It was implied.
It was also implied that Plagueis could be the father. My point is that we don’t know for sure. Either scenario is possible.


I have no problem with people not liking the prequels. I totally agree they are weak in comparison to the original trilogy, and to be honest I feel thier pain. But when all is said and done, I do like EP2 and 3. They were good, for what its worth. It pains me to see people blaming Hayden for his role as Anakin. I thought he did a good job, considering the material presented to him. Anakin was a punk, plain and simple.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by megaman_y
Palpatine claims Darth Plagueis had the power to do this. So was it Palpatine who created Anakin or Plagueis? Palpatine did lead Anakin to believe he has the know-how on bringing the dead to life, but then later he tells Anakin (after he turns), he will figure out the secret with his help, implying he does not actually know how to do this. There is no proof that he was the one who was able to do this.
There is no proof, of course, but it is pretty obvious that Palpatine is toying with Anakin in revealing how much power he actually has. I have no doubt that Palpatine is completely capable of all of his his previous master's abilities, including bringing the dead to life when it might suit him to do so.
 
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