[RedHotFuzz]

Now that CES is officially underway, has there been any news on pricing or launch dates?

UPDATE: I see the original story as linked to at the beginning of this thread has been updated with pricing and dates. Sadly the Onkyo models I'm interested in won't launch until June.

Onkyo TX-NR5100

• 5.2.2 channels
• 80 watts per channel (stereo)
• Four HDMI inputs and two outputs (with eARC)
• $499 (June)

Onkyo TX-NR6100

• 5.2.2 channels
• 100 watts per channel (stereo)
• Six HDMI inputs and two outputs (with eARC)
• $699 (August)

Onkyo TX-NR7100

• 7.2.2 channels
• 100 watts per channel (stereo)
• Seven HDMI inputs (one front) and two outputs (with eARC)
• Dirac Live calibration
• $899 (June)

Onkyo TX-RZ50

• 7.2.2 channels
• 120 watts per channel stereo
• Seven HDMI inputs (one front), two outputs (with eARC)
• Dirac Live calibration
• $1,099 (June)

Pioneer Elite VSX-LX105

• 5.2.2 channels
• Six HDMI inputs, two outputs
• 80 watts per channel
• $699 (August)

Pioneer Elite VSX-LX305

• 7.2.2 channels
• Seven HDMI inputs (one in front), two outputs
• 100 watts per channel
• Dirac Live calibration
• $999 (June)

 

[bungi43]

@jsil my buddy had an 809 for 10 years with no issues. He had it on its own shelf, plenty of breathing room all around it and so it could have just been that people with issues had their Onkyos stuffed in a sealed cabinet for years. But again my father in law has had an Elite vsx32 stuffed in a cabinet for years without any issue. 😕

I've yet to have an issue with an Elite
My church is using my VSX 03 and I have no idea how old that is now. I have my VSX 23 in the garage (I got it back in 2008 or 2009 maybe)?
My main AVR in my HT is an SC-77...going strong 8 years later. I have a 502 in my living room, and a 103 in my kids room.

I'm not going to say I've been lucky, as I don't think failing is the norm. I would buy one again in a heartbeat. My only concern is...the 502 I have...I just can't get the sound completely to my liking. Which is why it's in the room it is. It's not bad, but I can't get it to reproduce the sound of, say, that VSX 23 or even the 03.

 

[RedHotFuzz]

The "my Brand X Model Y went up in smoke, I'm never buying Brand X again!" anecdotes are utterly useless on their own. Name the brand (Denon, Sony, Marantz, Arcam, whatever) and you'll find similar (and similarly-useless) personal stories. I've seen one user on this forum claim that his Denon burned his house down and nearly killed his sibling. So I guess I should never buy Denon/Marantz either?

I've never owned an Onkyo but I'd like to give one a try (frankly, I'm always rooting for the underdog). I've had Sherwood, Pioneer and Denon and never had a problem with any. I remember as a kid being obsessed with my father's Onkyo receiver. How I miss the smooth-but-clicky action of those old mechanical volume knobs!

 

[qirex]

That is some serious pre-announcing, I guess since they have basically no product in the channel there's no harm in it but I don't think I've ever seen a company admit a 7 month lead time.

 

[bass addict]

That is some serious pre-announcing, I guess since they have basically no product in the channel there's no harm in it but I don't think I've ever seen a company admit a 7 month lead time.

cough TRX cough

 

[RedHotFuzz]

That is some serious pre-announcing, I guess since they have basically no product in the channel there's no harm in it but I don't think I've ever seen a company admit a 7 month lead time.

It’s crazy. Knowing what the new models are all about, I’d be crazy to buy a current model, but it also delays my HT makeover plans by 5 months.

 

[eriksells916]

@RedHotFuzz no worries, my new 5.2.4 setup has been sitting for 2 months, my 4 new ceiling speakers are in boxes still in the closet and my dual jbl end table subs are in the garage unfinished. What's a few more months?

 

[onesolo]

No issues on my Onkyo!!! Still rocking fine, not even Arc problems with my Tv!!!

Can we get seperated general threads for the Pioneer and Onkyo 2021 avrs??

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[onkyoKURD]

glad to hear this, i loved my sr607, im never going back to denon ever! and im hoping this the real hdmi 2.1 not some half ass **** denon tried.

 

[mk1981]

The good part is avoiding the bugs that crippled Denon, Marantz and Yamaha receivers. O&P luckily avoided teething issues.

The bad part is that it's still the same chip, so some people will complain that it's limited HDMI 2.1 (clocked at 10 GHz, not 12 GHz, for effective 40 Gbps bandwidth, not 48).

Does it matter? Yes and no.

I'm using this timings calculator for all calculations: Video Timings Calculator and I will refer to CVT-R2 timings as standard.

For RGB or YUV 4:4:4 and no compression:
8K/60 does not fit in 48 Gbps
8K/50 8 bpp requires 48 Gbps minimum
8K/30 10 bpp fits in 40 Gbps
8K/30 12 bpp requires 48 Gbps
8K/24 12 bpp fits in 40 Gbps
I'm not aware of 12 bit HDR content hitting the market anytime soon.
Drop down to YUV 4:2:2 and 8K/60 at 10 bits require 48 Gbps, but 8 bits fit in 40 Gbps. Dropping to YUV 4:2:0 makes 10 bit HDR fit in 40 Gbps again.
4K/144 8 bpp fits in 40 Gbps
4K/120 10 bpp fits in 40 Gbps
4K/120 16 bpp YUV 4:2:2 fits in 40 Gbps
4K/60 16 bpp 4:4:4 fits in 40 Gbps

Anything lower than that and it all works in 40 Gbps.

When it comes to common formats, the only ones that require 48 Gbps are 4K/120 (and 8K/30) 12 bit HDR or 8K/50 10 bit HDR.
However, with DSC, all these formats will work perfectly fine on 40 Gbps, and I doubt anyone could spot a difference at 60 fps 8K or 120 fps 4K. For static images, VRR will drop refresh rate to 30 Hz or less, and DSC will no longer be necessary.
I'm not even aware of any camera that could supply oversampled 8K video. All 8K camcorders, cameras, cine cameras, and so on, are Bayer array and as such, they are automatically reduced to the equivalent of 2:2:1 subsampling. No console or even overpowered gaming PC is able to run AAA games smoothly at 8K/60, or even 4K/120.
If you want to use 8K for office work or to edit pictures, you're already limiting your refresh rate, you don't need anything faster than 30 fps for static content and any fast movement will be covered by DSC.

 

[mk1981]

Now that CES is officially underway, has there been any news on pricing or launch dates?

UPDATE: I see the original story as linked to at the beginning of this thread has been updated with pricing and dates. Sadly the Onkyo models I'm interested in won't launch until June.

Onkyo TX-NR5100

• 5.2.2 channels
• 80 watts per channel (stereo)
• Four HDMI inputs and two outputs (with eARC)
• $499 (June)

Onkyo TX-NR6100

• 5.2.2 channels
• 100 watts per channel (stereo)
• Six HDMI inputs and two outputs (with eARC)
• $699 (August)

Onkyo TX-NR7100

• 7.2.2 channels
• 100 watts per channel (stereo)
• Seven HDMI inputs (one front) and two outputs (with eARC)
• Dirac Live calibration
• $899 (June)

Onkyo TX-RZ50

• 7.2.2 channels
• 120 watts per channel stereo
• Seven HDMI inputs (one front), two outputs (with eARC)
• Dirac Live calibration
• $1,099 (June)

Pioneer Elite VSX-LX105

• 5.2.2 channels
• Six HDMI inputs, two outputs
• 80 watts per channel
• $699 (August)

Pioneer Elite VSX-LX305

• 7.2.2 channels
• Seven HDMI inputs (one in front), two outputs
• 100 watts per channel
• Dirac Live calibration
• $999 (June)

I saw reference to this:
Pioneer Elite VSX-LX505

• 7.2.2 channels
• Seven HDMI inputs (one in front), two outputs
• 120 watts per channel
• Dirac Live calibration
• Unknown price, June release

Notably missing are higher end Onkyo AVRs and Pioneer Elite SC-LX models. Also missing are mass market AVRs.

What I find odd is that Onkyo quotes power per channel in stereo, while Pioneer states power per channel with no such reservations. It would be awesome if all Pioneer models were able to supply 80, 100 or 120 watts on all 7 or 9 channels, but it seems hardly possible.
Maybe it's power per channel when multiple are enabled, but for up to 3 or 5 channels?

 

[NismoZ]

Looks like Pioneer and Onkyo are still kicking in some way and are brining Dirac Live room correction to the lineup. Along with doing a better room correction job with a much more user friendly and tweakable interface, it should also EQ the sub down past the 36Hz range, that other AVRs besides Audyssey Multeq XT32, cannot EQ down to. This potentially removes the need to add/configure miniDSP to EQ the sub down in that range.

Its said that these AVRs will have HDMI 2.1 and support those gaming features. We still aren't sure if its out of the box or with a firmware update later. We also aren't sure if they are using the corrected HDMI 2.1 chip that fixes 4k/120 and 8k/60. Likely not, given the fact that the new chips probably will not be available in time. Pioneer's successors (not listed in this first announcement) to the higher end Elite SC-LX704/904 for better amps and additional Atmos channels will likely come along later, and could potentially include the new HDMI 2.1 chips...

Onkyo and Pioneer's 2021 receivers back in black with 8K video, from $499 - CNET
Pioneer Elite VSX ‑ LX105, VSX ‑ LX305 And VSX ‑ LX505 - New Season AV Receivers (techweekmag.com)
Pioneer DIRAC Partnership: Is this the End for MCACC Room EQ? | Audioholics

As a Pioneer fan, I had written them off over the last year, like many people given the parent companies financial issues. This new room correction implementation has me interested though. We should be aware of potential support issues, but even through 2020s issues, the Klipsch distribution change and financial troubles, Pioneer did release some firmware updates for their most recent models.

How do you think moving from MCACC to Dirac Live room correction will go in the first AVR lineup? Would it be hard to implement given the fact that Pioneer has always used MCACC and Onkyo with AccuEQ?

 

[eriksells916]

@mk1981 no issues, the older lx504 ranked very high on the list of receivers rated with all channels driven. Hopefully the lx505 has the same if not improved power supply/amps.

 

[shtao]

These AVRs list X.2.2 channels, so only 2 channels of Atmos. Would they support 4 Atmos speakers if one didn’t need all X surrounds? For example, would 7.2.2 support 5.2.4?

 

[mk1981]

All previous models did. VSX-LX501 (503, 504) had 9 powered outputs (assignable) and 11 pre out outpus (one extra pair). You could configure it for 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 without an external amplifier, or to 7.2.4 with one external amplifiier.
LX70x and LX801 have the same configuration.
LX904 has 11 powered channels and 11 pre out, so you don't need an external amplifier for 7.2.4.
I found reference to LX901 being able to run 9.2.2 and LX801 able to run 9.2.2 with an external amplifier.
Apparently there never was an Onkyo or Pioneer AVR that would allow Atmos in 9.x.4 or any x.x.6 configuration.

My guess is that SC-LX705 and SC-LX905 will support 9 surround channels and 6 or 8 overhead channels, but then again, it's such a tiny part of the market that they might not even bother this year.

 

[eriksells916]

@shtao nevermind mk1981 got it.

 

[CurunirTheWise]

These AVRs list X.2.2 channels, so only 2 channels of Atmos. Would they support 4 Atmos speakers if one didn’t need all X surrounds? For example, would 7.2.2 support 5.2.4?

They show the back of the TX-NR7100 in this video:

The "Surround Back" shows "Height 2" as an option, so as mk19871 said it should be an option. Wish they did have an option for 7.2.4 on these but I'm just happy to see them back in the running either way.

 

[CurunirTheWise]

Update: Looked again at the preamp outs on the RZ50 and it does look like it can be configured 7.2.4 via that. Happy dance!


I'll be preordering this thing for sure.

 

[NismoZ]

Those look very intriguing and I loved my Onkyo gear for a long time (and still want to love them) but man would it be hard to shell out that kind of money with the condition they're in at the moment.

Catch 22. Don’t buy their gear because they’re failing; guarantee their failure by not buying their gear.

The good news is that the average joe doesn't know about their troubles. They just want to go and buy what's best for the cheapest amount of money. If Pioneer/Onkyo can get the price reasonable with having great room correction, then then they will bite. If word gets out that these are good, then some enthusiasts may also come back. I for one, was ready to leave Pioneer after 25 years with them, and this has me interested again.
My current Pioneer SC-07 has lasted since 2008 and sounds awesome. I had no failures of prior models either and I'm in the market to complete my 4k HDR TV and console upgrades. Hopefully these new models turn out well and its a viable option.

As far as Pioneers higher end Elites (the SC series with different amps, features and more channels) usually comes out at a later time. Might be next year.

 

[RedHotFuzz]

With no/low stock of existing models, I wonder if there's any chance of seeing these new models earlier than promised.