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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all, new adventure here for me. One of the kids that spent the night over this weekend for my sons birthday was picked up by his father, who saw my marty cubes and loved it. When I told him I made it, he said his friend who plays in a band was looking for someone to make cabinets for 6 Faital Pro 18HP1020 subs. It is a spanish band that plays outdoors a lot and some times indoors so he wanted something loud, not necessarily room shaking bass like for theaters. He says he wanted something like a folded horn or even a regular cabinet with 2 18's on it like the JBL cabinet.


He asked if I could build it. I know I can physically build it, but my question is how do I figure out what is the best cabinet for this sub. Also is this sub any good? Do I start by entering the parameters in winisd and select the box type? The it will tell me specs? Any help would be appreciated. I think this is a great opportunity to make some extra cash to get my mains and rears, from Erich.



Here is some info regarding the sub.

http://www.faitalpro.com/en/products/LF_Loudspeakers/product_details/index.php?id=201070110


Technical Parameters

Nominal Impedance 8 Ohm

Minimum Impedance 6.6 Ohm

AES Power Handling (1) 1000 W

Maximum Power Handling (2) 2000 W

Sensitivity (1W/1m) 99 dB

Frequency Range 35÷1600 Hz

Voice Coil Diameter 100 mm (4 in)

Winding Material Cu

Former Material Glass Fiber

Winding Depth 23 mm (0.91 in)

Magnetic Gap Depth 12 mm (0.47 in)

Flux Density 1.3 T

Magnet Neodymium Slug

Basket Material Aluminum

Demodulation No

Cone Surround (3) Triple Roll

NET Air Volume filled by Loudspeaker 6.2 dm^3 (0.219 ft^3)

Spider Profile 2x non-adjacent symmetrical constant height waves


Thiele and small parameters

Fs 35 Hz

Re 5.4 Ohm

Qes 0.28

Qms 9.74

Qts 0.27

Vas 207.2 dm^3 (7.32 ft^3)

Sd 1134 cm^2 (175.77 in^2)

Xmax (4) 9.50 mm

Xdamage (5) 17.5 mm

Mms 182.0 g

Bl 28 N/A

Le 1.7 mH

Mmd 159.5 g

Cms 0.11 mm/N

Rms 4.1 Kg/s

Eta Zero 3.10 %

EBP 125 Hz



 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks, I could never do this for a living, way to much to figure out. He was hoping I could make him some of Bill Fitzmaurices Tuba cabinets. I sent Bill an message as to which on would be best for this sub but I honestly don't even know how to tell if this is a good sub or not? I see they are pricy, lowest I found them for was $450. But that doesn't mean its a good sub. Look at the SI subs, cheap price and its a great sub.
 

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From experience: Moving large cabs gets tiring very quickly; as a result large cabs are often traded for smaller ( though hardly small ) cabs.

That driver is recommended for use in vented ( bass reflex ) cabs ranging from100~250 liter ( 3.5 - 8.8 cu. ft. ).

Fairly Typical for a Pro 18

The range depends on desired tuning/alignment.

It should be modeled.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cessna1466u  /t/1525013/new-cabinet-using-this-sub-for-live-music#post_24548364


Thanks, I could never do this for a living, way to much to figure out. He was hoping I could make him some of Bill Fitzmaurices Tuba cabinets. I sent Bill an message as to which on would be best for this sub but I honestly don't even know how to tell if this is a good sub or not? I see they are pricy, lowest I found them for was $450. But that doesn't mean its a good sub. Look at the SI subs, cheap price and its a great sub.

I don't have the time anymore to do much modelling, but that Faital appears to be a great driver for the job. You wouldn't attempt to run live sound with something like the SI sub at all.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSyd  /t/1525013/new-cabinet-using-this-sub-for-live-music#post_24548386


From experience: Moving large cabs gets tiring very quickly; as a result large cabs are often traded for smaller ( though hardly small ) cabs.

That driver is recommended for use in vented ( bass reflex ) cabs ranging from100~250 liter ( 3.5 - 8.8 cu. ft. ).

Fairly Typical for a Pro 18

The range depends on desired tuning/alignment.

It should be modeled.

Thank you for the response, stupid question but how where you able to tell that it recommends a vented bass reflex cab and the size? Is it something in specs that tells you that?
 

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Yes there are indicators in the listed T/S parameters.

Google searched that driver and picked up bits, BUT no actual builds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSyd  /t/1525013/new-cabinet-using-this-sub-for-live-music#post_24548432


Yes there are indicators in the listed T/S parameters.

Google searched that driver and picked up bits, BUT no actual builds.

Thank you, I will enter the info into winisd and see what I get. I appreciate the help.
 

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I don't have any modeling software on this machine and haven't used WinISD before but they all use the same parameters the Big 3 are:

Qts. Fs and Vas.

Some programs generate so called "optimum" tuning; for instance BassBox used to produce a .707 Q. alignment.


* BTW I also noticed that some ARE modeling this in horns
 

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Yes, winISD is a good start. One of the things that I caught was the huge impedance spike, 150 ohms.
The suspension looks well behaved, no blips in the impedance, other than a small one at 900 hz, and again at 1800 hz or so.


That is a free-air impedance curve, in a ported box you will have two peaks, instead of one. When impedance is high, current through the coil is low... so having nice large impedance peaks is good.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSyd  /t/1525013/new-cabinet-using-this-sub-for-live-music#post_24548471


I don't have any modeling software on this machine and haven't used WinISD before but they all use the same parameters the Big 3 are:

Qts. Fs and Vas.

Some programs generate so called "optimum" tuning; for instance BassBox used to produce a .707 Q. alignment.


* BTW I also noticed that some ARE modeling this in horns
Thanks I will head over there and see what they have. Thx
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd  /t/1525013/new-cabinet-using-this-sub-for-live-music#post_24548491


Yes, winISD is a good start. One of the things that I caught was the huge impedance spike, 150 ohms.
The suspension looks well behaved, no blips in the impedance, other than a small one at 900 hz, and again at 1800 hz or so.


That is a free-air impedance curve, in a ported box you will have two peaks, instead of one. When impedance is high, current through the coil is low... so having nice large impedance peaks is good.

Thanks Michael, they need an emiticon that shows everything going over its head.
I will input this into winisd and see what it says, I will also head over to the horns section and see if they have anything going on with this sub. I really do appreciate all the help, I know I shouldn't be really even messing with this since I don't know enough about it but I figured the best to learn is to get your hands dirty so here I am.
 

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Well there is gratification upon completion
.

You will find with sound there is no free lunch....

Before you jump and build a horn OR any large speaker - NOTE the size.

Some even build cardboard approximations and get Volume Shock


And the problems of how to get it moved and through doorways and up/down stairs are realized.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I know what you mean, when I built my martycube which is only 24x24x24 I thought, its not that big. That was in the garage, first trying to get it into the house it took both my wife and I to do it and then when placed next to entertainment center I realized how big it actually was. He plans on putting casters on them and handles, he has cabs right now that they use for shows so I assuming he realizes how big these things will be,
 

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AND Horns are even bigger...

Worked with a band that had horns that required 4 guys to move them; it was such a PITA to move them, they got sold.

Though 15's outsell 18's - it's probably due to the fact that big drivers require big cabs.

Pro cabs are often designed as modules that pack and move and stack well.


Did a couple of Q & D calcs and it looks like a 250L cab would have an f3 of 33Hz and f8 of 27Hz

A 150 L cab an f3 of around 40Hz.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSyd  /t/1525013/new-cabinet-using-this-sub-for-live-music#post_24548663


AND Horns are even bigger...

Worked with a band that had horns that required 4 guys to move them; it was such a PITA to move them, they got sold.

Though 15's outsell 18's - it's probably due to the fact that big drivers require big cabs.

Pro cabs are often designed as modules that pack and move and stack well.


Did a couple of Q & D calcs and it looks like a 250L cab would have an f3 of 33Hz and f8 of 27Hz

A 150 L cab an f3 of around 40Hz.

Is that in a vented cabinet or in a horn?
 

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Vented

( Now check the size of a horn
)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So almost 9cubic feet per cabinet. That is a little bigger than the marty cubes I have. Not too bad, just have to find the right box style and port size. Again thank you for all the help. I now have something I can go to him with. I know he thinks he needs a folded horn design or the tuba design to be able to get louder sound from these but maybe some cubes with the right ports might work out better for him as far as storage and carrying them around.
 

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Honestly: Loved horns since the 60's, Built many

but like I said no free lunch - to be effective Horns have to be BIG.
Hoffman's Iron Law.

So there are horn plans that use 15's that require 9ft cabs, 16 cu ft cabs even up to 24 cu ft cabs depending upon how loud and low you want.

A horn loaded with an 18 would be even larger - that's why you don't see many plans, not because an 18 is inferior - far from it - it offers Sd advantages.

In comparing a horn to a Reflex cab - consider response flatness and excursion demands as well.

Tuning is like a performance envelope with tradeoffs and compromises.
 
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