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Hi everyone,
This is my first post after reasearching the forums. In a few weeks we will start to insulate the house we are building. I had a last minute idea to turn the great room (26'x23'x20') into a Dolby Atmos 9.2.4 room, and I need suggestions.

I would like to install the speakers in wall, but it seems like it might not be the best idea (should I install in enclosed speakers in wall, or make a diy enclosure that the in wall speaker will sit in?).

I will install all speakers except for the center channel at ear level and I would like to recess the subwoofers into the wall (front and rear) if possible (opinions against?). The whole house will have rockwool insulation, and most of the wall space except for the rear wall is 12".

Last week I went to Magnolias and really liked the Martin logan speakers (Motion 60xt), as much as the KEF brand which was 2K more for the fronts.

Suggestions for how to spend the 20K (speakers and receiver/amp brands)? Feel free to ask any questions for clarification.

Thanks everyone.
 

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Hi everyone,

This is my first post after reasearching the forums. In a few weeks we will start to insulate the house we are building. I had a last minute idea to turn the great room (26'x23'x20') into a Dolby Atmos 9.2.4 room, and I need suggestions.



I would like to install the speakers in wall, but it seems like it might not be the best idea (should I install in enclosed speakers in wall, or make a diy enclosure that the in wall speaker will sit in?).



I will install all speakers except for the center channel at ear level and I would like to recess the subwoofers into the wall (front and rear) if possible (opinions against?). The whole house will have rockwool insulation, and most of the wall space except for the rear wall is 12".



Last week I went to Magnolias and really liked the Martin logan speakers (Motion 60xt), as much as the KEF brand which was 2K more for the fronts.



Suggestions for how to spend the 20K (speakers and receiver/amp brands)? Feel free to ask any questions for clarification.



Thanks everyone.

I’m not huge on designing rooms but if you liked Martin Logan, have a look at Chane and Emotiva. They use ribbon tweeters similar to ML. If you like the brightness and imaging of Kef, I would have a look at HSU’s CCB8 speaker. Very very interesting speaker. On my “to hear” list. It uses a coaxial driver just like Kef but with a larger 8 inch driver. These are all ID companies, I’ve bet you’ve never heard them. I would look into them though. This forum has a big liking to ID companies over Magnolia sold speakers.

As for subwoofers. You could get 4 of SVS’s PB12-NSD for only $2000. Black Friday sale right now and they go real quick. Arguably the best subwoofers for the money. If you want to spend a little more money try Rythmik (FVX15 and up), HSU (VTF3 and up), and JTR (Anything by them is amazing). Those companies can get expensive quick however.

As for receivers and amplifiers, Emotiva and Anthem make some really nice stuff. Check them out. Denon and Marantz too (I think x6400 and SR8011 is what you need). Dirac (Emotiva and Anthem) and Audessey XT32 (Denon and Marantz) will be your best friend when tuning your setup.

You can honestly disregard all of that info as long as you listen to this:

The subwoofer and center channel are the most important parts of a theater. Spend most of the budget on subwoofers and get the largest center you can fit. If at all possible try to get 3 of the same speaker for the LCR (three towers if at all possible). As for electronics, spending $500 more to get 50 more watts vs a 200 watt amp is a waste of $500. That will provide less than a dB of gain. Doubling the wattage provides a 3 dB gain. Keep that in mind when buying amplifiers. And lastly, don’t forget to ask questions. The only stupid question is the one not asked.

Good Luck!
 

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For 9.2.4, I would do the following:

Fronts: JTR Noesis 212HT $1,599 * 3 = $4,797
Surrounds/Front wide/Rear surrounds: JTR Single 8HT $699 * 6 = $4,194
Atmos Speakers: RSL C34E $125 * 4 = 500
JTR Captivator 4000 ULF * 2 = $6,998
Denon AVR-X8500H = $4,000

Total = $20,489

The AVR receiver is really expensive for 2 extra channels...

Alternatively, go with 7.2.4 to save some money on the receiver, and get better surround speakers:

Fronts: JTR Noesis 212HT $1,599 * 3 = $4,797
Surrounds/Rear surrounds: JTR Noesis 228HT $1249 * 4 = $4,996
Atmos Speakers: RSL C34E $125 * 4 = 500
JTR Captivator 4000 ULF * 2 = $6,998
Denon AVR-X6400H = $1,499

Total = $18,790

JTR is having a BF sale for the aforementioned speakers and a holiday sale for free shipping on speakers and subs. You will be saving at least $2000. These JTR speakers are high efficiency speakers so they are very dynamic and extremely efficient. They can play loud with very little distortion. These 2 systems will be sick! :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I’m not huge on designing rooms but if you liked Martin Logan, have a look at Chane and Emotiva. They use ribbon tweeters similar to ML. If you like the brightness and imaging of Kef, I would have a look at HSU’s CCB8 speaker. Very very interesting speaker. On my “to hear” list. It uses a coaxial driver just like Kef but with a larger 8 inch driver. These are all ID companies, I’ve bet you’ve never heard them. I would look into them though. This forum has a big liking to ID companies over Magnolia sold speakers.

As for subwoofers. You could get 4 of SVS’s PB12-NSD for only $2000. Black Friday sale right now and they go real quick. Arguably the best subwoofers for the money. If you want to spend a little more money try Rythmik (FVX15 and up), HSU (VTF3 and up), and JTR (Anything by them is amazing). Those companies can get expensive quick however.

As for receivers and amplifiers, Emotiva and Anthem make some really nice stuff. Check them out. Denon and Marantz too (I think x6400 and SR8011 is what you need). Dirac (Emotiva and Anthem) and Audessey XT32 (Denon and Marantz) will be your best friend when tuning your setup.

You can honestly disregard all of that info as long as you listen to this:

The subwoofer and center channel are the most important parts of a theater. Spend most of the budget on subwoofers and get the largest center you can fit. If at all possible try to get 3 of the same speaker for the LCR (three towers if at all possible). As for electronics, spending $500 more to get 50 more watts vs a 200 watt amp is a waste of $500. That will provide less than a dB of gain. Doubling the wattage provides a 3 dB gain. Keep that in mind when buying amplifiers. And lastly, don’t forget to ask questions. The only stupid question is the one not asked.

Good Luck!

Thanks for your very detailed reply!! Magnolias was local so I went to check them out (they have a very nice demo comparison program to crosscheck between speakers). I will check those brands of speakers you mentioned (Chane and Etmova right now). What is an ID company?

Should I go with 9.2.4 or 9.4.4? Does 4 PB12-NSD in each corner sound better than 2 SB16s or an equivalent brand sub (you mentioned Rythmik (FVX15 and up), HSU (VTF3 and up), and JTR)? I'm focused on prewiring right now. I'll try to take pano shots of the framing for reference today.

I don't know anything about amplifiers, but I do know some things about receivers. But what caught me off guard is the wattage rating per channel on receivers, and how the wattage drops to speakers when a full system like a 9.x or 7.x is connected. Should I go separates for a system like this or just a receiver. I'd need a 13 channel amp based on the research I've done, and Denon's x8500h seems like what I need based on that, correct? No big deal as I'm only running the wire right now, and not looking to buy speakers or amps/receivers right now.

I will do what you said about the subs and front speakers. I will take your advice on the amps your referring to. I did notice at Magnolias the Mcintosh brand hardware was super expensive, and in order to build a system around that you'd want to spend over 50K or so.

What's good brand speaker wire? Can you use 12/2 electrical wire? I've noticed a lot of stuff out there is cooper clad aluminum.

Also, what do you think about the surrounds and rear being in wall? I'd like a clean install if possible. And the sub being inside the wall however enclosed? I'd just build a recessed cavity in a couple closets and install a grill on the drywall so it's a clean install without the look of clutter. Also, did you notice my rears are in corners and not really in the back? Because of the large opening in the kitchen, I'd have to mount them 12' above the ground floor tilted down which I can do but not sure if it's better than the configuration I had on the plans.

I really appreciated your detailed reply.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
For 9.2.4, I would do the following:

Fronts: JTR Noesis 212HT $1,599 * 3 = $4,797
Surrounds/Front wide/Rear surrounds: JTR Single 8HT $699 * 6 = $4,194
Atmos Speakers: RSL C34E $125 * 4 = 500
JTR Captivator 4000 ULF * 2 = $6,998
Denon AVR-X8500H = $4,000

Total = $20,489

The AVR receiver is really expensive for 2 extra channels...

Alternatively, go with 7.2.4 to save some money on the receiver, and get better surround speakers:

Fronts: JTR Noesis 212HT $1,599 * 3 = $4,797
Surrounds/Rear surrounds: JTR Noesis 228HT $1249 * 4 = $4,996
Atmos Speakers: RSL C34E $125 * 4 = 500
JTR Captivator 4000 ULF * 2 = $6,998
Denon AVR-X6400H = $1,499

Total = $18,790

JTR is having a BF sale for the aforementioned speakers and a holiday sale for free shipping on speakers and subs. You will be saving at least $2000. These JTR speakers are high efficiency speakers so they are very dynamic and extremely efficient. They can play loud with very little distortion. These 2 systems will be sick! :eek:
Thanks for your reply Chucky.

Yes, it does seem like it is very much more expensive for 2 extra channels (11 vs 13). Can you get the 11 channel receiver and add a 2 channel amp? Does price matter when choosing an amp? I know nothing about amps sorry (can you direct me to a good article on amps?)? I was really thinking about the 2 extra speakers given the vast size of the room.

I am going to look into JTR speakers right now.

Do you have any input about the inwall rear and surrounds? Can I put the speakers you mentioned or other ones that will fit a 12" cavity in the wall? Will it make a sound difference if I put them in the wall? Or should I get in walls and frame in an enclosure?

Thanks for your reply Chucky!!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
For 9.2.4, I would do the following:

Fronts: JTR Noesis 212HT $1,599 * 3 = $4,797
Surrounds/Front wide/Rear surrounds: JTR Single 8HT $699 * 6 = $4,194
Atmos Speakers: RSL C34E $125 * 4 = 500
JTR Captivator 4000 ULF * 2 = $6,998
Denon AVR-X8500H = $4,000

Total = $20,489

The AVR receiver is really expensive for 2 extra channels...

Alternatively, go with 7.2.4 to save some money on the receiver, and get better surround speakers:

Fronts: JTR Noesis 212HT $1,599 * 3 = $4,797
Surrounds/Rear surrounds: JTR Noesis 228HT $1249 * 4 = $4,996
Atmos Speakers: RSL C34E $125 * 4 = 500
JTR Captivator 4000 ULF * 2 = $6,998
Denon AVR-X6400H = $1,499

Total = $18,790

JTR is having a BF sale for the aforementioned speakers and a holiday sale for free shipping on speakers and subs. You will be saving at least $2000. These JTR speakers are high efficiency speakers so they are very dynamic and extremely efficient. They can play loud with very little distortion. These 2 systems will be sick! :eek:
Leaning with JTR 4000 Chucky. Just googled them and they definitely wow. Is that the best bang for the buck rear/surround JTR has (212HT)? Why do you like the 212HT over the other ones they offer?
Thanks!
 

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Thanks for your reply Chucky.

Yes, it does seem like it is very much more expensive for 2 extra channels (11 vs 13). Can you get the 11 channel receiver and add a 2 channel amp? Does price matter when choosing an amp? I know nothing about amps sorry (can you direct me to a good article on amps?)? I was really thinking about the 2 extra speakers given the vast size of the room.

I am going to look into JTR speakers right now.

Do you have any input about the inwall rear and surrounds? Can I put the speakers you mentioned or other ones that will fit a 12" cavity in the wall? Will it make a sound difference if I put them in the wall? Or should I get in walls and frame in an enclosure?

Thanks for your reply Chucky!!
Denon says that the "AVR-X8500H powers the next generation of home theater with the world’s first 13.2 channel receiver that supports thelatest immersive audio formats..." therefore, 13.2 comes at a premium. The Denon AVR-X6400H can only process 11 channels.

You should choose AVRs based on the channels and functions you need. If you use HE speakers, then you can get away with not using pre-pro because the HE speakers don't need that much power.

What is the size of the cavity? H x W x D? The Single 8HTs would fit width and depth wise. I would decide on the speakers first before I get started on the cavities.

When all else being equal, in-walls won't sound as good as regular speakers.

Wow, you have a lot of questions... Maybe you need to read up some material first?
 

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Leaning with JTR 4000 Chucky. Just googled them and they definitely wow. Is that the best bang for the buck rear/surround JTR has (212HT)? Why do you like the 212HT over the other ones they offer?
Thanks!
Bear in mind that the JTR Cap 4000ULFs are huge... I have one.

As non-floor standers, the 212HTs are huge. I recommend using them as fronts as they are more important than the surrounds/ATMOS. You definitely should spend more on the fronts (L, C, and R). The 212HTs are even more dynamic than the 228HTs or the entry level Single 8 HTs.

The $600 B&C DE990TN compression driver in the 228HT/212HT are superb.
 

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Hi everyone,
This is my first post after reasearching the forums. In a few weeks we will start to insulate the house we are building. I had a last minute idea to turn the great room (26'x23'x20') into a Dolby Atmos 9.2.4 room, and I need suggestions.

I would like to install the speakers in wall, but it seems like it might not be the best idea (should I install in enclosed speakers in wall, or make a diy enclosure that the in wall speaker will sit in?).

I will install all speakers except for the center channel at ear level and I would like to recess the subwoofers into the wall (front and rear) if possible (opinions against?). The whole house will have rockwool insulation, and most of the wall space except for the rear wall is 12".

Last week I went to Magnolias and really liked the Martin logan speakers (Motion 60xt), as much as the KEF brand which was 2K more for the fronts.

Suggestions for how to spend the 20K (speakers and receiver/amp brands)? Feel free to ask any questions for clarification.

Thanks everyone.
I'm running a 9.4.4 setup using Martin Logan Motion speakers and SVS subs, and a Denon X8500H receiver. I've had my Motion speakers for just over 5 years now - I love them! You could use Martin Logon's in wall speakers for the side /rear surrounds, or mount the FX / FX2 on wall, which is what I did.
 

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Hi everyone,
This is my first post after reasearching the forums. In a few weeks we will start to insulate the house we are building. I had a last minute idea to turn the great room (26'x23'x20') into a Dolby Atmos 9.2.4 room, and I need suggestions.
I would start a thread in the dedicated-room sub forum and ask for planning and design advice on the room. Now is the time to do it, before you select gear. If you have any interest in sound proofing, now is the time to do that as well. But at minimum you want to figure out the seating arrangement relative to the viewing area, type of display, and if PJ whether you are going for an AT screen and the type of light control, and if multiple rows figure out the riser configuration. Where you sit relative to the screen, number of rows, and type of display, and whether you soundproof (which is a big and involved task) drives the audio gear selection and speaker placement options in a dedicated room. You could be sorry if you dropped $20k on audio gear before doing some basic planning on the room itself.

If this isn't your first rodeo on a room like this, sorry for the thread intrusion, and carry on. :)
 

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I would start a thread in the dedicated-room sub forum and ask for planning and design advice on the room. Now is the time to do it, before you select gear. If you have any interest in sound proofing, now is the time to do that as well. But at minimum you want to figure out the seating arrangement relative to the viewing area, type of display, and if PJ whether you are going for an AT screen and the type of light control, and if multiple rows figure out the riser configuration. Where you sit relative to the screen, number of rows, and type of display, and whether you soundproof (which is a big and involved task) drives the audio gear selection and speaker placement options in a dedicated room. You could be sorry if you dropped $20k on audio gear before doing some basic planning on the room itself.

If this isn't your first rodeo on a room like this, sorry for the thread intrusion, and carry on. :)

This! ^^^


A Home Theater is a *system* and it deserves to be designed like one. There are many things you want to consider in the design BEFORE you decide on the equipment, or at least in conjunction with the equipment decisions. Check out the forum @jjackkrash suggested for some design and construction advice:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/


Craig
 

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From the diagram, it looks like a 5.x.4 might be the best option. No rear wall on the left (as seated) argues against actual rear speakers, and the two surrounds so close together on the side wall is ... redundant. Also, the front sides add no real improvement and may, in fact, hurt the front speaker imaging. Speaking of that, the front L&R are not equally distributed relative to the center channel. If possible, have them equidistant (move the sub to a different location).

Are you getting any help in this design? Have you consulted the Dolby recommendations for speaker position?

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-4-setups.html

The problem with in-wall speakers is many-fold. First, speaker placement is critical to getting good imaging and soundfield coverage. Once you install the speakers, you're stuck. Second, to get equivalent performance, you have to spend two or three times the $ of a free standing speaker. Third, pre-defining the position of a sub(s) in the room is a recipe for poorly performing subs. Subs interact with the room in unusual and unpredictable ways. Having many options for placement is the key to getting the most even frequency response.

If you have not, as yet, gotten any professional design help, I would put some % of that $20K towards getting some, before you make serious and costly mistakes. You might ask for designer recommendations in the Home Theater Build part of this forum. As alluded to by jjack earlier in this thread, there are a lot of considerations in a successful HT Build.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/
 

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Thanks for your very detailed reply!! Magnolias was local so I went to check them out (they have a very nice demo comparison program to crosscheck between speakers). I will check those brands of speakers you mentioned (Chane and Etmova right now). What is an ID company?



Should I go with 9.2.4 or 9.4.4? Does 4 PB12-NSD in each corner sound better than 2 SB16s or an equivalent brand sub (you mentioned Rythmik (FVX15 and up), HSU (VTF3 and up), and JTR)? I'm focused on prewiring right now. I'll try to take pano shots of the framing for reference today.



I don't know anything about amplifiers, but I do know some things about receivers. But what caught me off guard is the wattage rating per channel on receivers, and how the wattage drops to speakers when a full system like a 9.x or 7.x is connected. Should I go separates for a system like this or just a receiver. I'd need a 13 channel amp based on the research I've done, and Denon's x8500h seems like what I need based on that, correct? No big deal as I'm only running the wire right now, and not looking to buy speakers or amps/receivers right now.



I will do what you said about the subs and front speakers. I will take your advice on the amps your referring to. I did notice at Magnolias the Mcintosh brand hardware was super expensive, and in order to build a system around that you'd want to spend over 50K or so.



What's good brand speaker wire? Can you use 12/2 electrical wire? I've noticed a lot of stuff out there is cooper clad aluminum.



Also, what do you think about the surrounds and rear being in wall? I'd like a clean install if possible. And the sub being inside the wall however enclosed? I'd just build a recessed cavity in a couple closets and install a grill on the drywall so it's a clean install without the look of clutter. Also, did you notice my rears are in corners and not really in the back? Because of the large opening in the kitchen, I'd have to mount them 12' above the ground floor tilted down which I can do but not sure if it's better than the configuration I had on the plans.



I really appreciated your detailed reply.

I read through the article and everything that everyone is saying is some really good stuff. The suggestion about going with 5.2.4 I agree with. After a certain amount of surround channels you get diminishing returns on the immersiveness. And by going this way you can save a lot of money on receiver/amplifier. However, I think it’s pretty cool to have a 13 channel system so if you would still like to go this way that is all good.

Heres my official suggestion:

Get an Emotiva XPA11 amplifier. 300 watts/channel for all 11 channels. $2000

Then get a Marantz AV7705. 11 Channel Processor with basically everything you’ll ever need. $2200

You can do a 7.2.4 or 5.2.6 system like this.

Back to the topics of subwoofers. You have 2 subwoofer channels processed so you can have 4 as long as it’s okay with you to have them utilized as a pair. It doesn’t really matter so don’t worry. You can have 8 even as long as they are connected in quads. Btw a simple y-adaptor is all you need to connect 2 subs to one output.

And then my recommendation:

If you were on smaller budget, 4 PB12-NSD subs for $2000 would be what I recommend but since you have extra money we can do two of JTR’s Captivator 4000s. $7000

Your budget is now close to $8800. As for speakers it really is up to you. If you like Martin Logan have at it. My preference would be Chane or Emotiva as I didn’t find the Martin Logan’s that amazing IMO. I have Ascends currently if you were wondering. You might want to check them out too, they are also well received here. But another suggestion was JTR. I would probably go with them since you have a huge budget and a large room.

I’m not going to make a recommendation on any specific speakers because Im not too familiar with your room and it seems you want to do in walls. Choosing a speaker for this is a little hard, but with JTR’s Coaxial Drivers in the 8HT’s and being front ported, I think that’s a good place to start. Someone suggested Revel In walls. Fantastic speaker company with lots of experience and money behind it.

As for your room design, like I said I’m not very experienced with that stuff, but Mediabrige makes good wire, I know you asked about that. Just make sure it’s rated for inwall use if that’s where it’s going. I think 12 gauge should be good, 14 even. And make sure to get OFC (Oxygen Free Copper) not CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum). Banana plugs will be your best friend when hooking up speakers. Don’t buy anything from Best Buy. Way too overpriced as you can see from the McIntosh gear. Don’t get hooked by a salesman there. Listen to the forum. Your ears and wallet will thank you.
>>>Amazon everything
 

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@chucky7

why those RSL ? ... im sort of researching future ceiling speaker options...
Unlike regular speakers, we can't really move the in-ceiling speakers around without consequences. We want the ceiling speakers to have wide dispersion and pivoting tweeter. These in-ceiling speakers have angled drivers so we can even point the whole speaker, not just the tweeter, at the MLP, just like toeing in the regular speakers to get the best imaging.

Though I have not personally heard them, I have read nothing but good things about them. They also look to have quality parts in them. Free shipping both ways is also a huge plus.

The only drawback is the width. Some are freaked out by having a huge whole in the ceiling. Then again if you know how to properly patch up drywalls, it shouldn't matter how big the cut out is...

Though I don't really have a budget for the ATMOS speakers, I am trying to spend as little as possible on them. I made a huge list of
 

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You should check out the Triad Owners Thread here in AVS. Triad is a favorite among custom installers.

Triad Speakers is a Portland-based company that hand builds speakers in just about every configuration you can imagine. They will even color match the speakers and grills to match the paint on your walls.

Triad has In-Wall and angled InCeiling speakers and subwoofers that work amazingly well for spaces in which you have no floor space, or when you wish to hide the speakers from view. The company has speakers in many different price ranges, starting at $300 per speaker - all the way up to $15k per speaker.

As you probably have figured out, Triad is not a household name but the company has an innovative build process and has won numerous awards in the industry. They are also well-renowned for their in-wall and in-ceiling designs.

www.triadspeakers.com

Take the Triad factory tour to see how they build speakers. Very cool.
 

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My only input would be to reinforce what Chucky recommended. The JTR speakers and subs are in a class all their own compared to any regular retail brand speaker. JTR is an end game setup....you just can't get any better. Their high efficiency speakers will achieve very clean, extremely dynamic reference and above reference output capability with very little power requirement from your AVR.

With a $20k budget, imo, if you don't go with JTR, you will end up with less performance with more of your money going towards the name brand and finish/appearance.
 

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Before you go down the speaker selection path, you might want to listen to a few different types of speakers, so you can choose something you really will enjoy in the long run. Given the amount of money being spent on this project, it becomes even more critical to make informed decisions based upon personal experience.

You seem to be a long way from actual speaker selection. That will come later in the process. Do get some help with the room planning and design. Once that has been fleshed out, then it will make some sense to start looking at speaker and front end selection, using criteria based upon the decisions made earlier in the process.
 
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