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This info is from a full page ad in the special 100th Issue of WideScreen Review. Awesome Issue!!!


It's a full page Crystallio II ad.



VXP by Gennum

True 1080P motion adaptive deinterlacing

True 10 bit 4:4:4

48 and 72 Hz

Ultra Fine Audio Delay

Internal HD media player w/ hard disk

4 HDMI inputs

2 HD-SDI/SD-SDI inputs

BNC connectors

Deinterlacing by Gennum or DCDi by Faroudja

MSRP $995 (hah had, just kidding )

Booth 1209 at Cedia


Sounds interesting. I'm still pondering the media player with hard disk.


Ken
 

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Yeah, they were talking about the next gen unit over at pixelmagicforum.com, but offered no details.


Looks very nice, especially the 4 HDMI and HD/SDI connections (even though most of us wont be able to afford to mod a HD source unit... not yet anyways). They claim it will be out later this year, but I'm betting we will really see it at the end of next year, considering how long it took them to release the PE-Pro.


The media center is a nice touch. But that looks to make it very expensive too. Maybe they will have one without that option.
 

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"They claim it will be out later this year, but I'm betting we will really see it at the end of next year, considering how long it took them to release the PE-Pro."


"If all above are true, then this will be the video processor I'll buy."


Not to be TOO negative here, but that is EXACTLY what Crystallio wants - to put your purchase decision on hold. The market is small, so if they convince you that their product is the "Bees Knees", then you won't buy a DVDO or Lumagen or DragonFly or whatever.


The problem is when the product comes out and they couldn't quite achieve their design ambitions, you have lost the pleasure of using one of the other products, or you have to lower your standards, or you put your buying decision on hold AGAIN waiting on the NEXT product cycle.


And don't get me wrong, you could replace "Crystallio" above with any other manufacturer's name. And this phenomenon is not unique to video processors, it's rampant throughout the electronics industry.


I guess my point is, it seems better IMHO to 1) make the decision "I need/want a video processor" and then 2) purchase the best product fit for your needs that is currently shipping. There will always be a new bigger better product under development.


End of ranting


Stepping down off soapbox.


:confused:

:eek:
 

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The Crystalio II looks very nice.


I suspect this will force the hand of other manufactures to announce their future plans.


-- Rich
 

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Interesting choice of the VXP. Not sure if I agree with that or not. I guess I'll have to wait to see the finished product.


As a user of a Pixel Magic scaler myself, I know they make great kit, so lets see how it plays out.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEBrown
Not to be TOO negative here, but that is EXACTLY what Crystallio wants - to put your purchase decision on hold. The market is small, so if they convince you that their product is the "Bees Knees", then you won't buy a DVDO or Lumagen or DragonFly or whatever.
I kind of agree with your logic but there is another problem /flaw. People won't buy the current Crystalio either. They will wait for the next version. I kind of ran into this problem last year. I wanted another scaler and was ready to jump on the Lumagen Vision Pro (with SDI option) literally I was days away from putting in my order. Then I found out that Lumagen were coming out with 3 new scalers Vision DVI, Vision HDP and Vision HDP Pro. I held out for the new products but ultimately couldn't wait (I did have my name on the beta tester list). I ended up going with another scaler. I still would like to own the Vision HDP Pro but timing was everything. I am quite happy with my current scaler.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EC
I kind of agree with your logic but there is another problem /flaw. People won't buy the current Crystalio either. They will wait for the next version. I kind of ran into this problem last year. I wanted another scaler and was ready to jump on the Lumagen Vision Pro (with SDI option) literally I was days away from putting in my order. Then I found out that Lumagen were coming out with 3 new scalers Vision DVI, Vision HDP and Vision HDP Pro. I held out for the new products but ultimately couldn't wait (I did have my name on the beta tester list). I ended up going with another scaler. I still would like to own the Vision HDP Pro but timing was everything. I am quite happy with my current scaler.
The current generation Crystalio is already outdated, so it was an open secret that they were going to replace it anyway. The only thing was the the Plasma Enhancers pushed the replacement back by a year.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEBrown
"They claim it will be out later this year, but I'm betting we will really see it at the end of next year, considering how long it took them to release the PE-Pro."


"If all above are true, then this will be the video processor I'll buy."


Not to be TOO negative here, but that is EXACTLY what Crystallio wants - to put your purchase decision on hold. The market is small, so if they convince you that their product is the "Bees Knees", then you won't buy a DVDO or Lumagen or DragonFly or whatever.
You are right in a way. I was actually hoping to get a next gen processor with Realta or VXP with all the bells and whistles. Dragonfly is nice but lacks many important features (for me) such as SDI inputs and BNC connectors. But I won't be jumping on a very new processor as soon as it gets out. I already have a iScan HD for my plasma and I'm very happy with my projector's external scaler box (Fujitsu D711's AVMII processor)
 

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Quote:
Internal HD media player w/ hard disk
What is that good for in a video processor?

Quote:
Deinterlacing by Gennum or DCDi by Faroudja
So it has both a Gennum and a Faroudja chip in it and uses either one, depending on the source material - or am I dreaming?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
What is that good for in a video processor?
To save you buying a sepperate media PC or media player? Pixel Magic's scalers are more or less just really good intergrated HTPCs, so it's probably quite easy to implement that sort of thing in their archetecture.

Quote:
So it has both a Gennum and a Faroudja chip in it and uses either one, depending on the source material - or am I dreaming?
For HD stuff it'll use the Gennum. For SD stuff you can pick which one to use based on your personal preference.

The DCDi in an incondite chip or the unknown quantity. Take your pick.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled
To save you buying a sepperate media PC or media player? Pixel Magic's scalers are more or less just really good intergrated HTPCs, so it's probably quite easy to implement that sort of thing in their archetecture.
But where does the media player get its data from? Is there a DVD drive in the Crystalio II, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled
For HD stuff it'll use the Gennum. For SD stuff you can pick which one to use based on your personal preference.

The DCDi in an incondite chip or the unknown quantity. Take your pick.
That sounds quite nice. Although it makes me wonder about the Gennum video deinterlacing quality. I mean if it was that great there'd be no reason for an additional Faroudja chip, right? If the Faroudja is better at handling video stuff, then shouldn't we buy the DVP1080 instead of the Crystalio II? What do you think?


Thanks!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
But where does the media player get its data from? Is there a DVD drive in the Crystalio II, too?



!
Probably over your LAN and /or USB.
 

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Very perceptive about the quality of the new chips. Processor manufacturers who are indeed in the know, but who unfortunately are under nondisclosure agreements, know there is no clear winner. All the new chips have significant weaknesses and the one chip manufacturer who has captured the most consumer interest through great promotion despite having significant weaknesses in its chip programming is rumored as charging a very high amount for relatively small quantities. Pricing reportedly has forced several small manufacturers to use the Gennum even though it reportedly is inferior to the Realta in several ways. When you get the chance, take a god hard look at how good or not good the Realta is in 480i video deinterlacing. The whole thing is a mess and we will be swamped with great promotional stuff and we will get posts from buyers who are totally unqualified to evaluate what is going on saying I am so happy and why don't you buy it too and become as ignorant whoops as happy as me?
 

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That doesn't sound good, Mark. But why then do all the people who've seen the Realta live say that SD looked almost like HD with it? That's exactly where good 480i deinterlacing is needed! Or is the weakness of the Realta only in video (60fps) stuff?


You say, the Gennum would be inferior. Is that something you heard? What weaknesses does it have?


Thanks a bunch!
 

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I am sorry but I can't disclose more without putting sources in jeopardy. You have to run viewing tests to determine whether deinterlacing shows jaggies along edges etc. Most people who have seen the various products and demos walk away saying things look good but they also say the very same thing about the present generation stuff. All these new chips are designed to go into mass market stuff. The chip manufacturers aim is to sell to the biggies. Not make a great perfectionist product for the littles. That is why the processor manufacturers do so much of their own programming and go around much of the junk in the chips. Unfortunately they can't because of financial and other reasons develop better video deinterlacers and weez stuck with whats in there.
 

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Is it fair to say that the Gennum or Realta are equal superior to to the DCDI or 504 chips at 480i film and video de-interlacing?


-- Rich
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
But where does the media player get its data from? Is there a DVD drive in the Crystalio II, too?
It'll probably stream stuff from a computer over ethernet the same way other media players do.


Quote:
That sounds quite nice. Although it makes me wonder about the Gennum video deinterlacing quality. I mean if it was that great there'd be no reason for an additional Faroudja chip, right? If the Faroudja is better at handling video stuff, then shouldn't we buy the DVP1080 instead of the Crystalio II? What do you think?


Thanks!
Well exactly. The Gennum is almost certainly better at film deinterlacing, but as for whether it's better with video, who knows? In any case, there really isn't any problem with them putting both in. FLI2300s are as cheap as, er, chips there days.


The Crystalio II should be quite a bit cheaper and more flexible than the DVP1080. Not sure which one will look better yet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich
Very perceptive about the quality of the new chips. Processor manufacturers who are indeed in the know, but who unfortunately are under nondisclosure agreements, know there is no clear winner. All the new chips have significant weaknesses and the one chip manufacturer who has captured the most consumer interest through great promotion despite having significant weaknesses in its chip programming is rumored as charging a very high amount for relatively small quantities. Pricing reportedly has forced several small manufacturers to use the Gennum even though it reportedly is inferior to the Realta in several ways. When you get the chance, take a god hard look at how good or not good the Realta is in 480i video deinterlacing. The whole thing is a mess and we will be swamped with great promotional stuff and we will get posts from buyers who are totally unqualified to evaluate what is going on saying I am so happy and why don't you buy it too and become as ignorant whoops as happy as me?
I agree, Mark.


Until someone can grab the Dragonfly and give it some thorough testing, we as consumers really don't know how good it really is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
That doesn't sound good, Mark. But why then do all the people who've seen the Realta live say that SD looked almost like HD with it? That's exactly where good 480i deinterlacing is needed! Or is the weakness of the Realta only in video (60fps) stuff?
The Realta's strength seems to come from it's noise reduction and image enhancement techneques more than it being much better than the other chips in the meat-and-vege criteria like deinterlacing and scaling, or so reports seem to suggest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich
Unfortunately they can't because of financial and other reasons develop better video deinterlacers and weez stuck with whats in there.
This is a constant bane to me. I really want better video deinterlacing, but it feels like the industry has been running on the spot for years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
Is it fair to say that the Gennum or Realta are equal superior to to the DCDI or 504 chips at 480i film and video de-interlacing?
Neither the HQV or VXP are much if any better than DCDi at video. They are apparently at least nominally better than the SiI-504 at film, but the 504 was designed as a compromise (cost wise) even in its day.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled
Well exactly. The Gennum is almost certainly better at film deinterlacing, but as for whether it's better with video, who knows? In any case, there really isn't any problem with them putting both in. FLI2300s are as cheap as, er, chips there days.


The Crystalio II should be quite a bit cheaper and more flexible than the DVP1080. Not sure which one will look better yet.
But (unlike the DVP1080) the FLI2300 can't do proper motion adaptive 1080i video deinterlacing, can it? As far as I see it, that is the big catch of the "cheap" Faroudja chips.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
But (unlike the DVP1080) the FLI2300 can't do proper motion adaptive 1080i video deinterlacing, can it? As far as I see it, that is the big catch of the "cheap" Faroudja chips.
It's old technology, so no point blaming the chip for it.


I'd be very supprised if Genesis don't release a HD version of the Faroudja chip sooner or latter (hopefully sans macroblocking bug). The reason for the delay might be simply that they don't want to canabilise the DVP1080, or that the industry developments over the last year or so totally took them by suprise.
 
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