[Subquestion]

Has anybody else heard about the new flagship Def Tech speakers? From just a low-end bass standpoint, does anybody have any ideas on how this new def tech speaker would compare to the JBL Synthesis systems or the Velodyne HGS-18 sub? I know the def tech is a full range speaker w / a built in sub and the synthesis is a complete system, but if you could give me a low end comparison, that would be great. I am deciding between the 3 systems for my new ht. Thanks for any help.

 

[Sean Max]

There is no low end comparison between Def Tech powered towers and stand alone subs like the Velodyne HGS-18. Def Tech's rated responses are a joke, they always have been. Any objective measurements of their response at the rated frequencies makes it clear that they don't stand up down low to stand alone subs. Unfortunately, you wouldn't think so from their marketing. You will still need a stand alone sub to get the very lowest of frequencies reproduced with any authority if you have a moderate to large room (if you don't then their flagship towers are probably too big anyway). The towers simply don't have the internal volume to do low bass really well.


You may be able to cross them over to a sub at a lower frequency than non-powered towers, and if that's your goal, then great. Otherwise, I'd look for non-powered towers and use the money you save on a great sub like the Velodyne or an SVS, Adire, ACI, etc.

 

[damiandt]

Sean Max - As an owner of the BP-3000s I can most definitely state that having 2 18" subs built in to the towers with 2000 watts of power can most definitely compare to stand alone subs. I could add a supercube or any of those micro subs and round out my bass, but by no means is it a joke. I have several organ pieces of music that only on my system can I hear the bottom. I have little doubt just how low they can go.


LOL. And define too big? Yes they are 5 feet tall but like only 10" wide or so. BMW speakers are huge by comparison. It all comes down to what you like.


As for actually trying to answer SubQuestion's question.


The new flagships are going to incorporate the new supercube sub technology into them. Like Carver's microsub (please forgive I forget the name). Here is the letter I got from Definitive Technology.


Heard about this and wrote Def Tech. This was the response I got. Look forward to hearing them

"Earlier this month, at the CES show in Las Vegas, we showed our new BP7000sc and BP7001sc towers. These two models will be our best two towers and will replace the BP3000TL and BP2000TL. Essentially, these new models will have the same midrange and tweeter sections that are used in the BP3000TLs and BP2000TLs. This will include 4 x 6.5" midranges and 2 x 1" aluminum dome tweeters. (The crossover networks used in the BP7000sc and BP7001sc are a bit different than the ones used in the BP3000TLs and BP2000TLs though.)

The real difference is in the subwoofer section......The new towers will feature our SuperCube technology. Specifically, the BP7000sc will have a 14" subwoofer and two 14" bass radiators and the BP7001sc will have a 10" subwoofer and two 10" bass radiators.

(The sound quality of the BP3000TL and BP7000sc will be quite similar though.)

The BP7000sc will have a suggested selling price of $5000.00 per pair and the BP7001sc will have a suggested selling price of $3500.00 per pair. We expect to begin shipping these new models in April 2003."


There is the answer to your question. Give them a listen if you like. Compare and find the sound you love. In the end it's your ears that matter.

 

[Subquestion]

thanks for the help guys

 

[bob23_60201]

I agree with damian. My room is large, and I have never felt a significant lack of bass with music or movies.


Obviously these DT speakers will not play a 20Hz tone at 120db's given a strict distortion limit. That is not what they were designed for. If someone wants more clean output at very low frequencies, that is where a separate subwoofer comes into play.


If you look at professional reviews, the Def Tech powered towers actually do extend very low in frequency response. The bp3000TL's were measured to have a -3db point at 18Hz, and the older bp2000's were measured to have a -3db point at 23Hz. There are many "quality" subwoofers that do not extend this low. In no way will a separate subwoofer be a substitute for a quality near full range loudspeaker. It is a complement, not a substitute.


We do not know all the detailed specifications, but having an additional powered woofer(s)/passive radiator(s) in the powered towered models does offer some potential advantages: high/mid/low frequency design controlled by the manufacturer, seamless blending assured, ability to relieve the midrange drivers of some of the upper bass load, possibility of relieving the main receiver/amplifier from driving the bass drivers, ability to adjust low frequency volume levels for each main channel.


Looking at the DT specifications, the powered towers and the nonpowered towers actually are very similar in size. The towers look very classy and not overpowering at all because of their slim profile, and they also take up very little floorspace.


On a side note, above it says that the bp3000TL and bp7000sc should be very similar in sound quality. On DT's webpage, it says that the bp7001sc is a significant step up in performance over even the bp3000TL. Who knows.

 

[damiandt]

I would think that the bp7000sc will have a tighter bass response. But as I haven't actually heard them, I cannot give an honest comment. Other than it will take a lot for me to feel I would be "upgrading" my bp-3000s.

 

[showard]

I own the BP3000TLs as well. A couple of personal observations:


A) I also own the Sunfire Signature subwoofer. At first I scoffed at Don w/ Krystal Clear Audio. I had two subs w/ 1000 watt amp already in the room. I didn't need anything else. He said he would set it up and if I didn't like it, he would take it back no questions asked. Suffice to say, I kept it. While a pair of BP3000TLs will in fact do quite well, if you want the last 10-15 percent you will have to supplement. I don't fault the Def Techs for this. I think its more related to speaker placement. An independant subwoofer placed on a side wall, 1/4th of the way to the back makes a huge difference in terms of filling the room with low end bass.


B) Given what we've been able to gather about the new speakers, same mid/high drivers, similar sized cabinets, etc I'm speculating that the new 7000s are going to sound an awful lot like the original 3000s except for maybe the bass. Given this, I don't feel any urge to "upgrade" at this point. The next time around I might not even get bipolars but thats a different story.


C) Speakers are the the most subjective component in any system IMHO. You really need an in home audition. This is why its important to purchase from a local retailer with a no questions asked return policy. I wouldn't trust yellow letters on a computer screen when it comes to making a speaker selection.