AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Go some great information recently regarding upcoming technlogy from Echostar/Dish. Most of what I learned is a point in time set of data, and I'm sure things will change. The rumored Dish 721 PVR will not have HD tuners, but will have 2 tuners and software based picture in picture. The 921 Pro will have 2 HD tuners and will be available next summer. Also, they are moving the entire architecture toward a more open type system. Gone will be the switches that they sell now, as will the dual port LNBFs. They will be replaced with single port LNBFs, which eliminate the two polarity based transponder seperation in the current LNBF.


Also, the switches will become more of a distribution mechanism than they are now, with the ability to cascade multiple switches to connect far more than the current 4 recievers to a single antenna complex. Gone will be the ridiculous and cheapo power injector on the big switch (that dies on me every six months or so)


RG11 cable will provide runs up to 400ft, as the line current increases from 400mA, to 750mA or more. RG6 will provide up to 250ft. All devices in the loop will have to support 2150Mhz.


The new recievers, called Pro Series (the 301/501 is first of this) will have far greater software features that will do installation and most importantly, diagnostics. Also, and more interestingly, the 721 and 921 will have standard ethernet and USB ports. They are apparently going to boot some kind of embedded Linux kernel, and will allow external connectivity via those two data ports to PCs for archiving from the PVR. It is unclear how that would work, but is the intention of the connectivity. Apparently, the whole DVI mess is undecided, regardless of what is out there (?), and it is undecided whether it will be implemented or not.


Apparently, the engineers have decided to move consumer satellite TV technology more toward commercial C-band technology with the pro series as well as the LNBF and switch components.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
What I would like to see in these components:


1.) RGB out and component out (like the 6000).


2.) More Tivo like functionality. We would not need to buy a Tivo to get advanced features and get reduced quality recordings (additional D/A and A/D step).


3.) The ability to record OTA digital and analog broadcasts. There current setup for the 501 makes it quite limited. Most of us require OTA for local channels. If they add this feature we would not need other recorders. They could add the additional analog tuner as an add in card.


4.) Able to view show list much further ahead.





------------------

Gary


STOP DVI/HDCP!

DVI/HDCP! ~= HD-DIVX!!!

DO NOT SUPPORT JVC or anyone else who supports this!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by PVR:
Ability to record OTA requires MPEG encoder(s) which drive the price way up...
I agree that is why I suggested an add in module. Also the added cost will be less then the cost of a Tivo which has the MPEG encoder and lots of other components(assuming the average person would spring for both).





------------------

Gary


STOP DVI/HDCP!

DVI/HDCP! ~= HD-DIVX!!!

DO NOT SUPPORT JVC or anyone else who supports this!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,314 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by nanohead:
... They will be replaced with single port LNBFs, which eliminate the two polarity based transponder seperation in the current LNBF...
Just how would they do that? If this can be true, it will allow wiring very much like cable, one line in takes all.


Given Dish's track record, I will be glad they can make watching live HD a stable experience, before ever looking forward to any more demanding tasks.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
681 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by jacmyoung:
Just how would they do that? If this can be true, it will allow wiring very much like cable, one line in takes all.


The answer to this was hinted at in nanohead's original posting: "All devices in the loop will have to support 2150Mhz." That's a pretty clear indication that they intend to use "stacked" LNBFs. Rather than have the receiver put a DC voltage on the coax to select between the two polarizations so you can receive from the odd or even transponders, the LNBF puts both onto the cable, but downconverted to different portions of the frequency spectrum. For instance, the even transponders wind up on 950-1450MHz, and the odds wind up on 1650-2150MHz. Now you can access all the channels from a given satellite without having to choose between right or left hand polarization like you do today, which is what prevents you from splitting a satellite signal.


-Jonathan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,050 Posts
The only thing I don't understand about their PC connectivity options, especially regarding your statement, "external connectivity via those two data ports to PCs for archiving from the PVR," is why they have thus far ignored or not pursued IEEE 1394 connectivity. Despite the claims regarding cost, it's just not that expensive to add that capability. And USB is pretty much worthless for video. Ethernet also isn't really a capture technology at all.


From an end-user cost standpoint, Firewire PCI cards are down below $50 and falling. Many, many PCs and all Macs have built-in IEEE 1394 along with iMovie and many other applications designed specifically to deal with video capture.


Dennis


------------------

Dennis Whiteman

FastPipe Media, Inc.


[This message has been edited by ultimate (edited 09-14-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
I just installed a USB 2.0 card in my system. 5 ports at a possible 480MB/S throughput each for under $50 - fully backward compatible with USB 1.1 devices.


So it's possible that this could work for archiving but we're years away from this type of functionality. I've been following Dish for years now and they (like others) announce features and new products that never see the light of day.


It's really anybody's guess. The MPAA is a strong force - I'd watch them closely if you're in the future guessing game.


------------------

The opinions expressed here are those of the poster (me) and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer or its partners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Last week I heard from someone inside Echostar that the HDPVR-921 would probably also have component, IEEE1394 and DVI outputs.


------------------

Mike aka Hot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,600 Posts
The PC-esque features of these new boxes have something to do with Open TV. What is Open TV. I know that on my 301 pro I can get weather around the world, and that they are planning to have some kind of "dish interactive".


PS After having both a 6000 and a 301 pro installed, I returned the 6000 for another 301 pro. I am waiting for them to make an HD reciever with all of the "pro" features.


------------------

After 6 years I am getting ready to upgrade my HT. Research now, purchase in the summer... er, uh, September... grrr...lagging upgrades...

- Rear Channels in...

...now waiting for DPL II
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,082 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by PVR:
Ability to record OTA requires MPEG encoder(s) which drive the price way up...


Except that OTA HD broadcasts are already encoded so there should not be a problem there, just with older analog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,082 Posts
It will still be a switched system, but instead of having 2 coax in from each LNBF to the switch, there will be one. This will allow a much cheaper and more reliable switch since it will not have to distinguish between even and odd polarity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,289 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by ultimate:
From an end-user cost standpoint, Firewire PCI cards are down below $50 and falling. Many, many PCs and all Macs have built-in IEEE 1394 along with iMovie and many other applications designed specifically to deal with video capture.
Keep in mind, though, that FireWire is only a connector. Most of the software you mention is geared towards consumer digital cameras, which use the DV compression standard. The Dish uses MPEG-2, and they're totally different beasts. So, just because they use the same plug doesn't mean that they'll be able to share data.


------------------

Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,050 Posts
I didn't mean to imply that you could just connect a Dish 921 Pro receiver to your PC via Firewire and have it work without drivers or software revisions. Firewire is more than a plug; it's a data transfer mechanism.


But clearly with more than five million Firewire capable PCs on the market, that's where the market is headed. Already there are MPEG-2 to DV hardware transcoders and with the speed of current and future chips doing real-time MPEG-2 encoding via software isn't that far out. With relatively minor modifications to software that already support Firewire, you could have tools for the types of archiving that this thread implies.


Kind of off topic, but didn't Replay originally say they would use Firewire as a transport mechanism and then drop all references to it in their specs? Or was that TIVO? In any event, what was the reason?


Dennis


------------------

Dennis Whiteman

FastPipe Media, Inc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,194 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by PVR:
Ability to record OTA requires MPEG encoder(s) which drive the price way up...
But they are becomming very cheap these days for SDTV. Look at the Hauppauge PVR card. Note I said cheap, not good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,900 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary P. Gibbs:
What I would like to see in these components:


1.) RGB out and component out (like the 6000).


2.) More Tivo like functionality. We would not need to buy a Tivo to get advanced features and get reduced quality recordings (additional D/A and A/D step).


3.) The ability to record OTA digital and analog broadcasts. There current setup for the 501 makes it quite limited. Most of us require OTA for local channels. If they add this feature we would not need other recorders. They could add the additional analog tuner as an add in card.


4.) Able to view show list much further ahead.
I'd rather they just cut a deal with TiVo and do a DirectTiVo like box using their hardware with TiVo's software and interface. I have a 501, a 301, a 5000 (with modulator) and a 6000 (with 8-vsb demod), and while I like the Dish service, I hate all their hardware and interfaces (except for the 5000 modulator which is cool).


They can license the software and just pay a royalty so that users don't have to pay TiVo anything.


That would make me very happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
263 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by jhue:


For instance, the even transponders wind up on 950-1450MHz, and the odds wind up on 1650-2150MHz. Now you can access all the channels from a given satellite without having to choose between right or left hand polarization like you do today, which is what prevents you from splitting a satellite signal.


-Jonathan
The question now is, how do they plan on you accessing the multiple orbital slots they use? At least with the switch, you had a way of going between the different birds. Systems that use the system proposed here actually swing the dish to point to the different slots. Surely they can't be proposing that?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
638 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by majortom:
I'd rather they just cut a deal with TiVo and do a DirectTiVo like box using their hardware with TiVo's software and interface. I have a 501, a 301, a 5000 (with modulator) and a 6000 (with 8-vsb demod), and while I like the Dish service, I hate all their hardware and interfaces (except for the 5000 modulator which is cool).


They can license the software and just pay a royalty so that users don't have to pay TiVo anything.


That would make me very happy.
I totally agree! DISH should just license TiVo's technology and just build that cost into the cost of the rec'r.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
Quote:
I'd rather they just cut a deal with TiVo and do a DirectTiVo like box using their hardware with TiVo's software and interface.
Of course, thty tried this with the Microsoft Dishplayer already. Personally, I'd like to see some diversity in the STB market. It would be nice for consumers if the industry adopted a simple licensing program so that more people could make STB's for either satellite system. There would be some problems with support (it's a satellite problem, no it's a STB problem) but overall prices would go down and value would go up.


Does anyone know what sort of profit the two satellite providers make on hardware?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,864 Posts
In case you haven't heard, TIVO may be going out of business. Recent reports say the company is spending approx. $750 per subscriber which is WAY OVER what they can expect to gain back in revenue.


Unless investors sink a ton of money into TIVO, they are going to run out of cash by the latest February of 2002.


One of the largest stock holders in TIVO is Time/Warner which will be able to pick up the company at a fire sale price.


On the subject of adding TIVO to DISH products, the reaon why I DIDN'T buy a TIVO is that $10/mo./$200 license fee that is associated with the unit.


I know the 501 is not as versatile as the TIVO but it does get the job done at a lower price.


Lee
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top