AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 304 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

· Registered
Joined
·
3,347 Posts
Ive been exchanging emails with a guy at ED. #1 these guys know what they are doing, I have been very impressed with the technical level this guy has been talking at. Ive never owed an ED subwoofer but this new a7s-650 is going on my short list of subwoofers to consider.


The 650 is small and it does about as much as one could possibly get from such a small box.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleATheater /forum/post/16864118


Looks great. Should be exciting to read impressions from someone who has done the DIY or buys one of these.

Would be nice to see a compairson between both.. See if there is any difference between them both, if so, what is it, as well as, which one is better??
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,952 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson /forum/post/16864765


Ive been exchanging emails with a guy at ED. #1 these guys know what they are doing, I have been very impressed with the technical level this guy has been talking at. Ive never owed an ED subwoofer but this new a7s-650 is going on my short list of subwoofers to consider.


The 650 is small and it does about as much as one could possibly get from such a small box.

What do you mean by small? The box is 38" long and weighs 215lbs.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,643 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson /forum/post/16866710


Yes mostly that but it is still fairly small IMO anyways, with the volume around 5 cu.ft. . Big ones IMO are like the a7-450 @ around 16 cu.ft. and the a7-900 which is close to 20 cu.ft.


They're sealed subs (2x13") so of course the enclosure is going to be smaller than a dual 18" ported sub...
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
the surrounds are retarded huge on those drivers. to big IMO. i'd rather see a narrower, taller surround like used on some of the TC sounds drivers and the 18" Epik drivers.


having the surround that big robs a lot of cone area.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,952 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjasonb /forum/post/16869624


the surrounds are retarded huge on those drivers. to big IMO. i'd rather see a narrower, taller surround like used on some of the TC sounds drivers and the 18" Epik drivers.


having the surround that big robs a lot of cone area.

You do lose some cone area, but much of the surround itself is moving and displacing air along with the cone.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike /forum/post/16869694


You do lose some cone area, but much of the surround itself is moving and displacing air along with the cone.

true, but i just think it's to much surround to have when the drivers will only be seeing 650 watts each. they won't reach xmax at that wattage so why have so much surround. they are rated to take 1200-1500 watts rms each so they won't even be breaking a sweat.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,037 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by swgiust /forum/post/16869094


ED is only about 4 1/2 hours away.


I would love to go and see / hear this sub!

We actually have an open house this weekend. If you are interested in coming down and hearing some other HT stuff, please shoot me a PM. I would be more than happy to discuss you coming over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjasonb /forum/post/16869624


the surrounds are retarded huge on those drivers. to big IMO. i'd rather see a narrower, taller surround like used on some of the TC sounds drivers and the 18" Epik drivers.


having the surround that big robs a lot of cone area.

We actually had a lot of discussion about this when we released the drivers.


We originally did a taller narrower rubber surround, and found that it robbed performance ALOT. It actually took 4-5 surround renditions before we came to this one. While it doesnt look the best to everyone, it gave the best performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike /forum/post/16869694


You do lose some cone area, but much of the surround itself is moving and displacing air along with the cone.

Thats correct, depending on who you speak with, they will say 1/3 to 1/2 the surround is still usable displacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjasonb /forum/post/16869722


true, but i just think it's to much surround to have when the drivers will only be seeing 650 watts each. they won't reach xmax at that wattage so why have so much surround. they are rated to take 1200-1500 watts rms each so they won't even be breaking a sweat.

Like I said, a surround made to accomodate the mechanical limits of the driver was too heavy when done in a similar manner to the other drivers you mentions, actually robbing performance.


That power handling is also for car audio applications, in considerably smaller enclosures. In HT applications 500-750 watts is ideal depending on the enclosure design.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts

Quote:
the surrounds are retarded huge on those drivers. to big IMO. i'd rather see a narrower, taller surround like used on some of the TC sounds drivers and the 18" Epik drivers.


having the surround that big robs a lot of cone area.

I can 100% see why visually this would be the case. At first glance this can be very very deceiving. In the end it increases the performance of the design.


I'll elaborate on why this design it used. I think in the end you'll find it's the best way to go from a performance standpoint for this particular subwoofer.


If your familiar with the history of our company you'll know that this design actually evolved from the other style of design your referring to in regards to the TC Sounds drivers into what it is. It is this way for good reason.


This isn't a knock to TC Sounds at all. They make great drivers! Just none really like this. We sampled a lot of speakers and in the end just decided to go our own way.


One of the most notable requirements for the suspension design here is that it needs to be linear throughout the operating range of the driver and then some. We designed the suspension (surround) this way for a lot of reasons. One of which is you don't experience a loss of efficiency the same way with this design.


I'll explain.


When using a material like rubber as you go with higher and higher excursion drivers the material itself needs to get stronger obviously especially when using a "taller" style design. We use these styles on virtually everything else (Note : Eu-Surround on the web site) but not the Av.2 for good reason.


When the material gets thicker (read : heavier) you start to run into major mass issues. The compliance of the surround also begins to change over the excursion of the driver (even if using variable density surround designs) which essentially causes the driver to lose efficiency the further it moves from the center of the gap. Not a huge deal for most and the first renditions of the A (the driver mentioned) used these style of HT designs.


With that said. Modifications were made to fix this efficiency loss.


1. We opted to go backwards a little from our initial intentions and go with a half roll foam design with a little bit of a new twist. The SD of the design will be decreased but the overall linearity of the design actual yields more overall SPL with the same power output. (lighter and more linear is easier to move with the same voltage)


2. The overall basket diameter of the speaker is a true 13". Once you accommodate for the overall diameter change of the speaker and increase in efficiency in the suspension the SPL is easily made up (and added to).


3. This design yields less mass than many of our rubber or foam counterparts used in the development or sampling process. They were just too stiff or too heavy. In the end we had to tool our own. At this point our tooling catalog includes both.


The too stiff or too heavy thing is a big deal with especially with a underhung design. Inherently if you go too far in one direction the darn thing just gets so inefficient it's doesn't do a lot of things well.


If anyone would like us to assemble one with a "tall" surround for cosmetics and increased SD that can be done. We'll do it for you no problem. I will warn though as implemented it will come with decreases in performance and especially in this application a decrease in overall SPL.


After a few years of development this design route was selected for the following reasons.


1. We could afford to tool the frame to offset the loss in overall cone size.

2. The design yields more peak SPL.

3. The design reduces weight considerably.

4. The design is more linear.

5. The design burns less power even to it's linear limits.

6. It will extend higher in the frequency range.

7. It will be more linear at high output levels.


With other speakers with different design intentions it makes great sense. For this speaker this design and profile made the most sense for sound quality (linearity), efficiency (more SPL with the same power), and box requirements (increase mass with the same motor force = box requirements go up and put more stress on the suspension).


It's worth noting that prior to going to final production the Av.2 platform DID have the style of surround your referring to. This one just performed better for the intended applications and right before we hit final production the change was made. I'm very happy with the change.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexlindeman /forum/post/16869770


We actually have an open house this weekend. If you are interested in coming down and hearing some other HT stuff, please shoot me a PM. I would be more than happy to discuss you coming over.




We actually had a lot of discussion about this when we released the drivers.


We originally did a taller narrower rubber surround, and found that it robbed performance ALOT. It actually took 4-5 surround renditions before we came to this one. While it doesnt look the best to everyone, it gave the best performance.




Thats correct, depending on who you speak with, they will say 1/3 to 1/2 the surround is still usable displacement.




Like I said, a surround made to accomodate the mechanical limits of the driver was too heavy when done in a similar manner to the other drivers you mentions, actually robbing performance.


That power handling is also for car audio applications, in considerably smaller enclosures. In HT applications 500-750 watts is ideal depending on the enclosure design.

you guys are the experts so i won't doubt you there. i am just saying when the driver is not using all the surround, all the extra surround becomes a waste and robs a little cone area. when the driver will only see half it's rated power having all the extra surround becomes kind of a waste. i understand the reasoning behind the big surround on this beast and it is needed on this driver when being pushed hard.


once again, i am not doubting you guys. you guys have the experience and knowledge here, not me. and i am sure this A7s-650 is one hell of a sub.
 
1 - 20 of 304 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top