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Discussion Starter #1
KBK commented on a new silver formulation that Goo is coming out with. Here is his quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBK
For example, we have a new product out. It is for making screens with a peak gain of 4 or so. If curved, it might be higher. It is a silver screen formula. If measured, it is unlikely to shift by more than 100 deg. K. If looked at by the human eye, it will likely look like more than that. Substrate choice might be critical..and we are doing tests to look at that as an issue. We know how it is going to perform..but we might be suprised.


The meter averages..the eye sees the shifted 'peaks'. It doesn't average.



There is also a new grey formulation that is coming out. Here is the news release .



I am not so much interested in the Ultra Grey, but the 4 gain Ultra Silver might be of interest for a Torus app.


Ericglo


EDIT:No pricing please,unless permission has been granted by Alan or David.
 

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The new grey formulation sounds interesting. I wonder how dark it is in relation to the digital grey and digital grey lite. I'll probably be using the lite or the grey over the grey basecoat myself, I can't see going much darker than that with the projector I have in mind. But the high lumen output projectors might find the Ultra Grey quite useful.
 

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The Ultra Grey is at about a '5' on the Kodak grey scale chart. Use it in conjunction with the Digital Grey basecoat. Off-axis characteristics and angular reflective gain curves are the same, just lowered in peak values, obviously.


All the Topcoats, except for the 3-D coating, have similar gain curves, just different peak values.


The 3-D coating was executed due to the fact that we have had a tremendous amount of requests for a 3-D coating, but it is 'difficult to impossible' to create a 3-d coating that is 'rollable'. Spray only. Practice first. Same as the Rear Projection coatings. Not that difficult, just don't be running into such things 'blind' (without some basic experience), is my motto.


For example, there are now enough coatings that a really adventerous person could actually start their -own- fully blown screen company with our coatings as a starting point..and some folks have. In their local markets.


You could use the Digital Grey Basecoats..then the Ultra silver 3-d..and then..a fine thin coating of the Rear Projection coating..to control the gain..and maybe have a 3-d screen, in the 2.5 gain area or so, with better off axis output. All kinds of things can be cooked up with the addition of the two new coatings. How many combinations..now.. can you make?? :)


You are getting access to world class screen manufacturing coatings. It's up to you to figure out how to use it. We will always be working on new coatings and improvements. We can only suggest so many. People can experiment on their own. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Ken for the info. I would like to hear a lot more about this 3-D formula. I think a lot of people who might opt for Pearlbrite would go with this for a Torus, if it is better. I believ MC Maniac has already stated that he may try it on the back of his Pearl. If he doesn't like it, then at least it will be a good experiment. Plus, I found that aluminized mylar behind Pearl slightly increases the gain and viewing cone. If he goes back to the Pearl, then he may get those advantages as a consolation.


Ericglo
 

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I have yet to see anyone try making a Torus screen, using CRT white.. with VINYL as a substrate.


I have stated numerous times that the product does react badly with VINYL..basically..'uncuring' itself..and going completely 'sticky', like the back of a 3M post-it note. Not quite that bad, but basically..it attracts dust, and it will eventually be unusable. It cannot be cleaned. At all.


It's lifespan could be years, if properly treated. Ie, and covered to keep the dirt and dust off. don't touch it, etc. Not that much different than the very real fragility of the Silverstar screen. I was suprised when I found out (in person) how fragile that puppy is.


What you get when you apply CRT white to some vinyl..is the best screen I have ever seen in my life. The best balance between gain and off axis, I've ever seen..including color fidelity..and most specifically..contrast. There is something going on there in that combination that is just too strange. I'm likely the only person who has ever seen that particular screen mixture. Too bad. It takes time to cure..(and go bad :p)...but it works!!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ken,

I think MC wants to try the Ultra Silver mix on his Pearlbrite. Is it just the pigments that are different in the CRT and the Silver or is it the whole coating? If it is just the pigments, then I have a flexible coating that may be adaptable for use on vinyl.


Ericglo
 

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Silver mixes are 'generally' for 3-d apps or specific high light conditions...and color fidelity tends to go out the door. Doesn't matter who's silver it is, they tend to all be notably off in color accuracy. A basic by-product of their silver character. In the end it is a matter of preference..which is difficult to tell ahead of time.


If someone is looking to use the silver mix for CRT on curved screens.. in my opinion, I'd advise against it. I'd leave it for the more demanding applications of 3-d, and high ambient light conditions that are sometimes found in some 'tough' commercial situations. That's what it is for. CRT white, on vinyl might actually have again of 2.5 or so, as a standard reading method would produce. Hard to say.


To be specific, the whole Silver mix is completely different. Spray only, professional experience is reccomended.


Most recent example:

There is a gentleman (90210) in Beverl Hills, Rodeo Drive, at some large high end shop, who is using the Silver coating, spraying it on a large 10-12' diag. surface and using in a open entrance 'foyer' type area. It can be seen from the road. The screen is only enclosed on the sides by the alleyway..and one walks under the projection system..into the store. The owner is asking for impossibilities, and the intergrator is doing his damnedest to give it to him. The coating is useful in this app, as it is a direct reflection' kind of coating, whcih means high ambient light rejection,and high 'direct' reflectivity... ie, as the arrow, laser, or vector flys. The image will be slightly dark on the sides,and only be perfectly viewable when one hits the best angle bwtween the projector and screen. The Silver coating is about as perfect as it gets for this app, at least when it comes to products that we offer. It is a tricky install by anyone's estimation. Viewability is the highest criteria here, and color fidelity takes a far back seat.


People always ask for the impossible. Oh yes. And they want it to be free. :)


Reminds me of the comment by Per Skanning, On his order page..for ordering the world's best hand made woofers for speaker design..'Audio Technology'. It says, "Please remember we can only work within the known laws of physics'. That line just cracks me up, as I am all too familiar with people asking for a screen to violate the laws of physics. They do get upset sometimes when we introduce the realities.
 

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Then attend to MM. His posting is way over the line. Way over. look at his coments on a very new Goo thread, started by someone in Denmark, who is looking for opinions. Tell me that such things are realistic. He is definitely self promoting. And far from the first time that he has done so.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Alan,

Was that directed at me? I can see where this might sound like a marketing thread, but I was just trying to inform members and possibly get some more info on the products. I think Ken has replied without marketing, but that is just my take. Also, where you scanning this forum or was this thread reported?


Ericglo
 

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KBK,


Goo Systems seems to be doing well. Why don't you advertise on AVS?


Or would this still not allow you to cross the line? Seems it would at least extend the line :)


Ken
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenLand
KBK,


Goo Systems seems to be doing well. Why don't you advertise on AVS?


Or would this still not allow you to cross the line? Seems it would at least extend the line :)


Ken
Yeah, maybe KBK and MM can advertise together.:) What would that banner ad look like.:)


Ericglo
 

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Actually, we have better respect for one another in person. We've met two times now, at Rob's DIY meet.
 
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