100+ views and zero comments? What did I do wrong?
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New home AV distribution plan
Thanks up front for vast amount of info both here and linked from here. It made my research much easier. As the title states, Im working on an A/V distribution plan for a new home we are building. We are working with our builder now to finalize the floor plan but what Im posting is probably 75% accurate (family room and kitchen are still being reworked). I have quite a bit of experience working with wiring, I was an avionics and electronics tech on helicopters for a number of years and am now a systems engineer that goofs with both discrete wiring and ethernet on a regular basis, so working with coax, twisted pairs, ethernet, etc doesnt bother me in the slightest. That being said, the only wire Ive run in a home is some speaker wire and ethernet in my previous home, whole home AV is a little new and I want to get it right up front. So first the floorplan.
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I should have put a key on there, I realize that now. The TV icons in the box are RG6, the black triangles are CAT-5E. White triangles are phone jacks using CAT-5E. Speakers are the boxed S'es. In the room with 2 speakers there is an S with a line through it on the wall, thats the volume control switch. The Media room is going to be my hub, I will be installing an A/V rack in a stealthed cabinet shamelessly ripped off of these forums.
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I realize that the size of this photo may not be big enough to see all the icons, Ill post a link to the full size image once I can.
For 2 channel audio rooms Im using 16/4 to the switch, and then a single run of 16/4 to both speakers, breaking the first pair out at the closest speaker and then continuing the run and terminating the second pair at the end speaker. For the 5:1 rooms it will be 14 gauge individual pairs to each speaker location. The one question I have here is for subwoofer wiring. Is another 14 gauge run good enough there? So in effect Ill have 6 14 gauge runs to the room, or am I missing something (power?)? Do I need to run a CAT-5E run to each switch location to allow it to be used with certain distributed audio systems?
I am going to run HDMI cables to all the TV locations except bedrooms 2 and 3. Those runs are 65+ feet, if at some point down the road I need to service them with HDMI I can look at going with baluns using the two CAT-5E runs in the TV bundle correct? I will listen to reasons to talk me out of that plan.
My objective AV plan
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There is a reason that is called an objective plan, Unless this house comes in significantly under budget (HA!) I wont have the funds to complete the distribution portion of this plan, specifically the matrix. Its not a deal breaker because I dont have TVs for all those locations anyway, the goal here is to have the wiring in place to allow us to grow into the house and/or provide more value when selling down the road. For instance, we arent TV in the bedroom people, but Im provisioning for it anyway because its easy to prewire and we may become TV in the bedroom people later. So here is my short term plan.
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A little convoluted, but let me try to explain and hopefully this all works. Im going with a direct receiver to the 3 TV areas we will use immediately after building; family room, media room, study. Each TV will have its own receiver, and its own cable box attached directly to that receiver. I will have to run IR repeaters from those three locations to the necessary equipment, I will use one of the CAT-5Es in each TV bundle for that. My son has a TV in bedroom 2, but he is good with basic cable so we will just barrel his RG6 directly off the splitter for him to use without a cable box. That room wont use any other service from the rack, he has an Xbox in that room and will use that 90% of the time.
For the audio zones, I plan on providing service by using multi-zone receivers. Im doing 5:1 in two rooms and 2:1 everywhere else so I believe that is ok. Audio will be Sirius 95% of the time, which I plan to service directly from the receivers. Our first expansion will likely be the patio, Im assuming at that point I would need to look at a 4x8 matrix minimum right?
An idea I had with running the TV prewire stuff was to run all the cabling through an open gang at a wall mount height and continue that run to a floor level box to allow more flexibility down the road. If I want to mount at the wall height, I just pull the excess into the attic and use the terminations there. If for whatever reason I want to use a floor cabinet I can just let out the excess back down to the bottom box. I didnt plan on cutting out every box and capping them, some of those runs would only be opened at the bottom box so the wall stays clean. I will have detailed captures of all box locations so I can cut into them when needed down the road. Is this legal (power outlet at wall height would have to do the same or it defeats the purpose) or even useful?
The other question/concern I have is related to sealed envelope construction. I tried to avoid exterior walls because of this but some places just couldnt be avoided. Specifically the patio, bundle A in the master bedroom, and bundle B in bedroom 2. Conduit is the safe play there, but should I run the RG-6, HDMI, and coax bundles inside it or run them seperately (and trap them in the spray foam forever) and leave the conduit open for future expansion? Hopefully I covered everything, please pick apart my plan and tell me where you think Im going wrong, Im looking forward to your reviews.
I should have put a key on there, I realize that now. The TV icons in the box are RG6, the black triangles are CAT-5E. White triangles are phone jacks using CAT-5E. Speakers are the boxed S'es. In the room with 2 speakers there is an S with a line through it on the wall, thats the volume control switch. The Media room is going to be my hub, I will be installing an A/V rack in a stealthed cabinet shamelessly ripped off of these forums.
For 2 channel audio rooms Im using 16/4 to the switch, and then a single run of 16/4 to both speakers, breaking the first pair out at the closest speaker and then continuing the run and terminating the second pair at the end speaker. For the 5:1 rooms it will be 14 gauge individual pairs to each speaker location. The one question I have here is for subwoofer wiring. Is another 14 gauge run good enough there? So in effect Ill have 6 14 gauge runs to the room, or am I missing something (power?)? Do I need to run a CAT-5E run to each switch location to allow it to be used with certain distributed audio systems?
I am going to run HDMI cables to all the TV locations except bedrooms 2 and 3. Those runs are 65+ feet, if at some point down the road I need to service them with HDMI I can look at going with baluns using the two CAT-5E runs in the TV bundle correct? I will listen to reasons to talk me out of that plan.
My objective AV plan
There is a reason that is called an objective plan, Unless this house comes in significantly under budget (HA!) I wont have the funds to complete the distribution portion of this plan, specifically the matrix. Its not a deal breaker because I dont have TVs for all those locations anyway, the goal here is to have the wiring in place to allow us to grow into the house and/or provide more value when selling down the road. For instance, we arent TV in the bedroom people, but Im provisioning for it anyway because its easy to prewire and we may become TV in the bedroom people later. So here is my short term plan.
A little convoluted, but let me try to explain and hopefully this all works. Im going with a direct receiver to the 3 TV areas we will use immediately after building; family room, media room, study. Each TV will have its own receiver, and its own cable box attached directly to that receiver. I will have to run IR repeaters from those three locations to the necessary equipment, I will use one of the CAT-5Es in each TV bundle for that. My son has a TV in bedroom 2, but he is good with basic cable so we will just barrel his RG6 directly off the splitter for him to use without a cable box. That room wont use any other service from the rack, he has an Xbox in that room and will use that 90% of the time.
For the audio zones, I plan on providing service by using multi-zone receivers. Im doing 5:1 in two rooms and 2:1 everywhere else so I believe that is ok. Audio will be Sirius 95% of the time, which I plan to service directly from the receivers. Our first expansion will likely be the patio, Im assuming at that point I would need to look at a 4x8 matrix minimum right?
An idea I had with running the TV prewire stuff was to run all the cabling through an open gang at a wall mount height and continue that run to a floor level box to allow more flexibility down the road. If I want to mount at the wall height, I just pull the excess into the attic and use the terminations there. If for whatever reason I want to use a floor cabinet I can just let out the excess back down to the bottom box. I didnt plan on cutting out every box and capping them, some of those runs would only be opened at the bottom box so the wall stays clean. I will have detailed captures of all box locations so I can cut into them when needed down the road. Is this legal (power outlet at wall height would have to do the same or it defeats the purpose) or even useful?
The other question/concern I have is related to sealed envelope construction. I tried to avoid exterior walls because of this but some places just couldnt be avoided. Specifically the patio, bundle A in the master bedroom, and bundle B in bedroom 2. Conduit is the safe play there, but should I run the RG-6, HDMI, and coax bundles inside it or run them seperately (and trap them in the spray foam forever) and leave the conduit open for future expansion? Hopefully I covered everything, please pick apart my plan and tell me where you think Im going wrong, Im looking forward to your reviews.
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Nothing, but many of the people looking may know less than you and/or have nothing to offer in response. I'm trying to digest everything you've posted before I respond. Is it possible for you to attach a larger picture of your demarked floor plan? As is, I can't see the image clearly enough to make out your speaker/tv/etc locations.
You've provided a LOT of information (good), just takes a while to digest it all to provide feedback. Sometimes, it's better to ask short, direct questions rather than just "Here's what I'm doing, what do you think?"
I'll try to respond soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorchris /forum/post/20809835
100+ views and zero comments? What did I do wrong?![]()
Nothing, but many of the people looking may know less than you and/or have nothing to offer in response. I'm trying to digest everything you've posted before I respond. Is it possible for you to attach a larger picture of your demarked floor plan? As is, I can't see the image clearly enough to make out your speaker/tv/etc locations.
You've provided a LOT of information (good), just takes a while to digest it all to provide feedback. Sometimes, it's better to ask short, direct questions rather than just "Here's what I'm doing, what do you think?"
I'll try to respond soon.
Yeah, that may be one reason for the lack of replies. But more likely, posts like this are "help me start from scratch and design an entire house system" are difficult to answer - because it's a huge question and people get paid real money for the full response to those types of inquiries...
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Loop that speaker cable at a keypad location in each zone for compatibility with wall-mounted volume controls (in case). More importantly, also run a cat5 wire in parallel to that same keypad location for control of a whole-house audio system.
Many (most?) subwoofers these days are self-powered, so you want a line-level audio cable - an RG6 coax line with an RCA plug is typical.
Yes. In general, if you're running a wire somewhere other than a speaker location, add at least one cat5e/cat6 wire to that run - it's the swiss army knife of A/V wiring...
Cat5 matrix switches are the way to go, and running cat5/6 is much easier than HDMI - and will outlast the HDMI cable/standard... Any HDMI run >15 feet can be an issue - I'd skip it altogether and run 3-4 cat6 wires to each (potential) display location.
Yeah, let me stop you right there...
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That is absolutely the correct mindset for new construction. Wire installation will NEVER be as cheap as it is during construction. Add what you think is a *ridiculous* amount of wire. A year or two later, you'll wish you ran more.
A couple of things I see in your plan:
1) I don't like the rack access door in the bedroom. I'd be concerned about aesthetics, acoustics, etc. Look instead at a pull-out rack (Middle Atlantic AX-S) to gain access instead of a door in the bedroom wall...
2) I'd also be concerned about the media room sharing a wall with the Master bedroom. But it's probably better than having it adjacent to a kid's bedroom - assuming mom&dad stay up later than the kids more often that vice versa. (and the kids don't get to use Saturday mornings!)
3) Are you bringing all the wiring and equipment for the whole house A/V into the media room? You'll likely have a wiring center in a closet somewhere where the builder would normally run the phone/coax/ethernet/alarm wiring. If you have that wiring center placed somewhere convenient (utility / laundry room for example) you can place equipment there...
Jeff
Yeah, that may be one reason for the lack of replies. But more likely, posts like this are "help me start from scratch and design an entire house system" are difficult to answer - because it's a huge question and people get paid real money for the full response to those types of inquiries...
Loop that speaker cable at a keypad location in each zone for compatibility with wall-mounted volume controls (in case). More importantly, also run a cat5 wire in parallel to that same keypad location for control of a whole-house audio system.
Many (most?) subwoofers these days are self-powered, so you want a line-level audio cable - an RG6 coax line with an RCA plug is typical.
Yes. In general, if you're running a wire somewhere other than a speaker location, add at least one cat5e/cat6 wire to that run - it's the swiss army knife of A/V wiring...
Cat5 matrix switches are the way to go, and running cat5/6 is much easier than HDMI - and will outlast the HDMI cable/standard... Any HDMI run >15 feet can be an issue - I'd skip it altogether and run 3-4 cat6 wires to each (potential) display location.
Yeah, let me stop you right there...
That is absolutely the correct mindset for new construction. Wire installation will NEVER be as cheap as it is during construction. Add what you think is a *ridiculous* amount of wire. A year or two later, you'll wish you ran more.
A couple of things I see in your plan:
1) I don't like the rack access door in the bedroom. I'd be concerned about aesthetics, acoustics, etc. Look instead at a pull-out rack (Middle Atlantic AX-S) to gain access instead of a door in the bedroom wall...
2) I'd also be concerned about the media room sharing a wall with the Master bedroom. But it's probably better than having it adjacent to a kid's bedroom - assuming mom&dad stay up later than the kids more often that vice versa. (and the kids don't get to use Saturday mornings!)
3) Are you bringing all the wiring and equipment for the whole house A/V into the media room? You'll likely have a wiring center in a closet somewhere where the builder would normally run the phone/coax/ethernet/alarm wiring. If you have that wiring center placed somewhere convenient (utility / laundry room for example) you can place equipment there...
Jeff
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So I couldnt find an easy way to get a cleaner image from Visio without making it enormous, so I went ghetto and did screen caps at a zoom level that will show detail. Unfortunately this means you have to stitch things together to see the whole picture.
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Fair enough, the reason Im here is because my builder told me his AV guy would bend me over to do what Ive put into the plan so far. He charges $200 bucks to wall mount a TV. Not run cables and such, just to hang the mount and put the TV on it.
![]()
I thought I had read that before, thanks for confirming. So Im clear, 16/4 and a cat-5 from the rack to the switch, then a run of 16/4 to the speakers correct?
Thanks for that, had no clue. Would a RG6 and a 14 gauge pair give it more flexibility (are there subs that use standard speaker wire and a power source for instance?)
I will have to look into this, any links would be helpful. Is a cat-5 matrix 1080P?
I had the same concern, we are going to make that corner a 90 (or close to it) and move the master bedroom door further up the wall so I can put that entry to the back in the hallway.
The builder is planning on filling the walls with spray foam and we are going to do carpet to knock sound down. The nice thing is the family room will (eventually) share the same sources so if it does get too loud for us old farts I can kick them down the hall another room.
That was the plan, its why I was making that rack closet a little bigger to accomodate some additional wall boxes for phone, security, etc. This is a custom plan so he doesnt really have a plan on where its all going. Thanks for the replies. Im trying to figure out surveillance next, my wife wants exterior cameras at a minimum and I was trying to figure out if double cat-5 runs would be sufficient. Getting mixed signals from the intertrons on that so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor /forum/post/20810884
Yeah, that may be one reason for the lack of replies. But more likely, posts like this are "help me start from scratch and design an entire house system" are difficult to answer - because it's a huge question and people get paid real money for the full response to those types of inquiries...![]()
Fair enough, the reason Im here is because my builder told me his AV guy would bend me over to do what Ive put into the plan so far. He charges $200 bucks to wall mount a TV. Not run cables and such, just to hang the mount and put the TV on it.
I thought I had read that before, thanks for confirming. So Im clear, 16/4 and a cat-5 from the rack to the switch, then a run of 16/4 to the speakers correct?
Thanks for that, had no clue. Would a RG6 and a 14 gauge pair give it more flexibility (are there subs that use standard speaker wire and a power source for instance?)
I will have to look into this, any links would be helpful. Is a cat-5 matrix 1080P?
I had the same concern, we are going to make that corner a 90 (or close to it) and move the master bedroom door further up the wall so I can put that entry to the back in the hallway.
The builder is planning on filling the walls with spray foam and we are going to do carpet to knock sound down. The nice thing is the family room will (eventually) share the same sources so if it does get too loud for us old farts I can kick them down the hall another room.
That was the plan, its why I was making that rack closet a little bigger to accomodate some additional wall boxes for phone, security, etc. This is a custom plan so he doesnt really have a plan on where its all going. Thanks for the replies. Im trying to figure out surveillance next, my wife wants exterior cameras at a minimum and I was trying to figure out if double cat-5 runs would be sufficient. Getting mixed signals from the intertrons on that so far.
Btw, have you even talked to his a/v guy?
Find someone else if your builder doesn't recommend them.
Look at Cedia for some suggestions:
http://www.cedia.net/homeowners/finder.php
You would be far better off having someone that can help you design and implement a system, to also keep it functional, that is reliable and easy to use. You have to realize that you are an avioncs engineer and not a systems designer, I would never think of doing what you do and you should realize that this area isn't just about running wires to and fro.
I use several manufacturers I have choosen over the years due to their reliability and quality. I never use the latest gear as most have issues that need to be worked out and I don't want to be wasting my, or my customers time fixing things that shouldn't ever have been a problem in the first place.
Choose an a/v dealer with care and ask for referals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorchris /forum/post/20811756
Fair enough, the reason Im here is because my builder told me his AV guy would bend me over to do what Ive put into the plan so far. He charges $200 bucks to wall mount a TV. Not run cables and such, just to hang the mount and put the TV on it.![]()
Btw, have you even talked to his a/v guy?
Find someone else if your builder doesn't recommend them.
Look at Cedia for some suggestions:
http://www.cedia.net/homeowners/finder.php
You would be far better off having someone that can help you design and implement a system, to also keep it functional, that is reliable and easy to use. You have to realize that you are an avioncs engineer and not a systems designer, I would never think of doing what you do and you should realize that this area isn't just about running wires to and fro.
I use several manufacturers I have choosen over the years due to their reliability and quality. I never use the latest gear as most have issues that need to be worked out and I don't want to be wasting my, or my customers time fixing things that shouldn't ever have been a problem in the first place.
Choose an a/v dealer with care and ask for referals.
Gotcha, so the matrix is like one big balun and you deploy receiver baluns at each distant end right?
That was the plan, put a register in the ceiling of that closet and some kind of exhaust pulling air through the rack. Im used to working with enclosed racks that pull air into the bottom and exhaust up, I havent seen a lot of that being used in the AV community. Almost all are open on the front and back faces. I was planning on going with a middle atlantic rack, Im guessing as long as there is constant air flow in that cabinet I dont have to sweat doing a true thermal analysis right?
I mentioned that in my OP. I was planning on doing conduit on any exterior walls because of the spray foam being used there, I forgot to state that was true for the media room walls as well. Are there LV gang boxes that are closed that provision for conduit? Ive only seen variants of these
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Im concerned that the spray foam will invade that box with it being open like that, or is that concern overblown?
Gotcha, so the matrix is like one big balun and you deploy receiver baluns at each distant end right?
That was the plan, put a register in the ceiling of that closet and some kind of exhaust pulling air through the rack. Im used to working with enclosed racks that pull air into the bottom and exhaust up, I havent seen a lot of that being used in the AV community. Almost all are open on the front and back faces. I was planning on going with a middle atlantic rack, Im guessing as long as there is constant air flow in that cabinet I dont have to sweat doing a true thermal analysis right?
I mentioned that in my OP. I was planning on doing conduit on any exterior walls because of the spray foam being used there, I forgot to state that was true for the media room walls as well. Are there LV gang boxes that are closed that provision for conduit? Ive only seen variants of these
Im concerned that the spray foam will invade that box with it being open like that, or is that concern overblown?
I can see that. But in the same vein, I wouldnt pay a plumber to install a faucet that I can do myself either. If Im going to pay someone $75 bucks an hour its for a task that is worth... $75 bucks an hour, and that is obviously relative. As an aside, how hard (certs, insurance, etc) is it to get into this field of work? I make good money now, but this seems to be an emerging market for this area and doesnt seem that difficult to get into with my background.
Im tracking the costs pretty carefully, and if its done to this current plan Im right around $1k in bulk cable. That is with a 15% fudge on cable lengths. Gang boxes is an open question because of the spray foam but they are pretty low cost either way. Raceway isnt that bad either. I see where the costs ramp up (matrix, whole home audio backend, etc) and thats what Im trying to avoid up front, hence the two tiered plan. Ive already been informed by the boss that furniture is more important than my nerdy TV stuff.
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I can see that. But in the same vein, I wouldnt pay a plumber to install a faucet that I can do myself either. If Im going to pay someone $75 bucks an hour its for a task that is worth... $75 bucks an hour, and that is obviously relative. As an aside, how hard (certs, insurance, etc) is it to get into this field of work? I make good money now, but this seems to be an emerging market for this area and doesnt seem that difficult to get into with my background.
Im tracking the costs pretty carefully, and if its done to this current plan Im right around $1k in bulk cable. That is with a 15% fudge on cable lengths. Gang boxes is an open question because of the spray foam but they are pretty low cost either way. Raceway isnt that bad either. I see where the costs ramp up (matrix, whole home audio backend, etc) and thats what Im trying to avoid up front, hence the two tiered plan. Ive already been informed by the boss that furniture is more important than my nerdy TV stuff.
1 - 20 of 106 Posts
