[RMjimbob]


Hey guys so I just moved into a new place and I could use some advice/guidance. Until know I've been that $300 boxed 5.1 system guy. Anyway the room I'm looking at using is 16x21 (pics below) and the system will be set for the center of the room to be the "money" seat. It does have hardwood floors but for now a big couch and rug to dampen the echos. The system will be mostly used for gaming and movies (very little music).

 

First, my budget is in the $1000-$1500 neighborhood (receiver and speakers). I desire a 7.1 (maybe eventually a 7.2 but the second sub is not part of the initial budget). Basically I'm not against spending a little bit more for big gains in quality but if a $100 increase only gets a change a pro can notice its probably not worth it for my uses.

 

I've looked into receivers and kind of like the features of the Pioneer vsx-1123...any objections or input there?

 

Otherwise for speakers I don't know where to begin. I've looked at the Boston Acoustics CS260II floor standing models which seem nice for the price as well as the BIC America Venturi DV64 and  BIC America's FT-6T of which there is a big price jump that makes me wonder if its worth it.

 

As far as sub-woofer I also like the BIC F12 and PL-200 but again big price difference is it worth it and does the future goal of 7.2 change that choice at all? I have seen some talk of Lava subs, is that maybe worth a look?

 

Now is where I don't trust myself at all. It seems to me that the center channel quality is most critical for the viewers enjoyment any advice here?

 

And finally surrounds and rears. I don't understand where those funny looking speakers like the BIC Acoustech PL-66 go in a 7.1 system, middle of the room or back?

 

Thanks in advance for your time and input.

 

P.S. as far as the hardwood floors go I have found www.acoustimac.com and like there products any others I should be aware of (later upgrades not part of my initial budget)?

 

 

 

[Trace79]

I think most will agree that the 'entry' level sub should be no less than an SVS PB-1000 which is $500. I saw one in the classifieds for $400 yesterday though. Since it is still a relatively new sub from SVS, it should have at least 3 1/2 years left on the warranty. The person probably just missed their one-year upgrade SVS offers and wants something bigger. You may get the upgrade bug too. If you think you might it's great to go with SVS.


For an AVR, you might get the most bang for your buck getting a refurbished one from accessories for less. Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers seem to get a lot of praise in your price range. Might take a look at those.

 

[cel4145]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace79  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24509347


I think most will agree that the 'entry' level sub should be no less than an SVS PB-1000 which is $500. I saw one in the classifieds for $400 yesterday though. Since it is still a relatively new sub from SVS, it should have at least 3 1/2 years left on the warranty. The person probably just missed their one-year upgrade SVS offers and wants something bigger. You may get the upgrade bug too. If you think you might it's great to go with SVS.


For an AVR, you might get the most bang for your buck getting a refurbished one from accessories for less. Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers seem to get a lot of praise in your price range. Might take a look at those.

Agreed. SVS makes great subs and definitely worth the better SQ you get with them.


Also, I'm not sure how you would set up 7.1 in that living room very easily with the big window on that one side. Best to focus your budget on 5.1

I would suggest looking into HSU and Ascend Acoustics speakers.

 

[shadyJ]

+1 on staying 5.1. You don't have the right kind of room to do 7 channel surround sound.


What I would get for $1500:
Infinity Primus c251 center speaker: $70

four Infinity Primus p153 for front left/right and surround left/tight: $320

two Reaction BPS 212 subwoofers: $660
Denon AVR-E400 : new $500, used and refurbished, less than $400.


Altogether, under $1500 shipped.


The Primus are good speakers and highly regarded for their price. You can go read the Primus thread to get a better idea of how the perform.


The Reaction subs are a great deal right now. They are being clearenced out to make room for the turbo models, which the manufacturer, a new company called Reaction, has found that people have a lot more interest in. I am willing to bet two of those subs will stomp a single SVS PB1000. What's more, you can use them as speaker stands for the front very easily. Since the woofers on the subs are facing opposite directions, that does a lot to cancel out cabinet vibrations, so the subs should be inert enough to use as speaker stands. Two subs will do a lot more to defeat localization, which is where a sub draws attention to its position, messing up the sound stage and weighing the sound toward the side of the room that the subwoofer is on. Two subs will also enable you to use a higher than normal crossover, which will let the subs take some of the bass that your speakers would normally run. Since the sub's capability is so much higher than regular bookshelf speakers in the respect, you will gain a lot more dynamic range by doing this. In other words a much more powerful and punchy sound.


As for the receiver, get it for Audyssey and make it a point to run the Audyssey room correction, its well worth it. Audyssey is an enormously beneficial feature, but so many casual buyers just get the AVR and don't even bother to use it. That feature constitutes a good chunk of that receiver's cost, and it well worth the price. Read the manual and use it properly, you will be well-rewarded. Here is an informative thread about Audyssey.

 

[RMjimbob]


So I have two votes so far for 5.1 rather than 7.1 or 7.2. I guess I'm wondering why? I hear the more bang for your buck argument but I would have thought for the size of the room as well as shape it would accommodate 7.1 better than most. What are the reasons to choose 7.1 over 5.1? I would assume there's a thread on this I need to find. As for the window is there an issue with a speaker placed on a stand in front of the window?

 

With the SVS sub this is the first I have heard of them and I will definitely look into that. I am a car audio guy so I can appreciate the price tag that comes with good quality bass,

 

ShadyJ thanks for the in budget response haha. I'll check out those subs too. I have been a big Infinity car audio fan but wasn't to sure about how they are in home theater. Thanks for the thread link!

 

One more question. At a certain point does the capability/clarity of the Pioneer vsx-1123 limit a more expensive speakers capabilities/clarity. (like hooking a Les Paul up to a Wal-Mart amp to exaggerate the question)

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Bob7145]

Most BluRays are 5.1. Why mess it up by artificially adding extra speakers???

Check out the "All amps Sound the Same" thread.

Picked up a VSX-823 for $200 open box and it was tempting not to get the 1123 but I already have a Big AVR. The 823 puts out very little heat (wasted energy).

 

[sdurani]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RMjimbob  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24510519


I would have thought for the size of the room as well as shape it would accommodate 7.1 better than most.

With your seating so far away from the back wall, you're an ideal candidate for a 7.1-speaker layout (side speakers well separated from the rear speakers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMjimbob  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24510519


What are the reasons to choose 7.1 over 5.1?

Wrap-around envelopment, rear vs side directionality, more stable imaging in the surround field. Not going to get all that from only 2 surround speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMjimbob  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24510519


As for the window is there an issue with a speaker placed on a stand in front of the window?

No more than there is placing a speaker against any boundry. However, can you mount a small bookshelf speaker (sideways) above the curtain rod? Helpful to have the surrounds above ear level.

 

[RMjimbob]



I looked at the SVS PB-1000 and the freq response the show is beautiful. Is there any others that compete with this? Maybe the BIC PL-200? Not even close to the SVS?

 

sdurani: Thanks for the pro 7.1 response you seemed to be out numbered at this time and although I am not brushing off the 5.1 advice after sitting in this living room for a while I can't shake the feeling that 7.1 just fits the size and shape of the room.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24510576
 However, can you mount a small bookshelf speaker (sideways) above the curtain rod? Helpful to have the surrounds above ear level.

I have 8 inches between the curtain rod a ceiling (8 foot ceiling). 8 inches isn't make or break if that offset from listening height is critical I can get creative.

Questions on this:

First I've never heard of the surrounds (middle of the room speakers) needing to be above ear level. How critical is this and what is the minimum angle of rise if you will? I was just going to put them on speaker stands at ear level.

 

Also are these surrounds you speak of the funny looking speakers like the BIC PL-66? They go in the middle of the room for a 7.1 system right?

 

[sdurani]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RMjimbob  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24513064


I have 8 inches between the curtain rod a ceiling (8 foot ceiling). 8 inches isn't make or break if that offset from listening height is critical I can get creative.

It's not a specific height that's critical, just getting the side speakers above ear level. I didn't see any way to do that on your right wall, hence my asking how much space you have above the curtain rod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMjimbob  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24513064


I've never heard of the surrounds (middle of the room speakers) needing to be above ear level.

A pair of speakers at your side will have their tweeters blocked by the heads of people on either side of you. Raising them up (the speakers, not the people) will allow all listeners a clear line of sight to the side speakers.


Next time you go to any movie theatre, notice that ALL surround speakers (sides or rears) are above ear level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMjimbob  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24513064


How critical is this and what is the minimum angle of rise if you will?

At least a couple feet above ear height. Or find the minimum that gives everyone clear line of sight to the tweeters, without anyone's head blocking the way.


Raising the speakers also helps turn the 2D ring of sound around you to more of a 3D bubble by introducing a bit of height element. Plus, it's less distracting than having speakers at ear level, since people on either end of the couch will have a speaker shouting into one of their ears from a couple feet away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMjimbob  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24513064


Also are these surrounds you speak of the funny looking speakers like the BIC PL-66?

You can use any bookshelf speaker you want. For example, the Infinity P-153 speakers that ShadyJ suggested (which sound terrific BTW) have a smaller sibling that is only 6" wide. You can put that sideways and tilt it down towards the listening area.




I don't consider them "funny looking speakers", but you and I might have different tastes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMjimbob  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24513064


They go in the middle of the room for a 7.1 system right?

Yup, like this:

Sounds at your sides should be well separated from sounds behind you.

 

[RMjimbob]


One more question for the fronts can I do floor-standing or is that a no no with a sub? Too much bass?

 

[cel4145]

Not a problem. You'll use the bass management in your receiver to send the lower bass frequencies to the sub only. However, since you don't need the tower speakers for bass, it's possible that a bookshelf speaker for the same price might have the better SQ.

 

[RMjimbob]


So after spending some time researching and reading through the forum I have purchased a Denon AVR-X2000 receiver as well as a BIC-PL200 sub.

 

That still leaves speakers. I was considering five BIC Formula FH6-LCR ( http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.php?brand=2&type=6&spkrID=83 ) for the 5.1 setup everyone suggests and playing with the addition of 2 BIC PL-66 ( http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.php?brand=1&type=7&spkrID=96 ) for surrounds of a 7.1. Thoughts?

 

[RMjimbob]


...or possibly FT-6T's in the front and the center and rears FH6-LCR?

 

[hometheaterguy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24510576


With your seating so far away from the back wall, you're an ideal candidate for a 7.1-speaker layout (side speakers well separated from the rear speakers).

Wrap-around envelopment, rear vs side directionality, more stable imaging in the surround field. Not going to get all that from only 2 surround speakers.

No more than there is placing a speaker against any boundry. However, can you mount a small bookshelf speaker (sideways) above the curtain rod? Helpful to have the surrounds above ear level.

I do agree with "sdurani" here on it is hard to be surrounded by sound, with just two speakers.

 

[RMjimbob]


Well I thought I would list what I ended up getting. I must say that I am very pleased with the sound quality and volume of the setup especially given the price.

 

Foremost, I think it deserves mentioning that the costumer service and prices at www.acousticsounddesign.com are second to none. Mike Embers is a great guy and a pleasure to do business with.

 

Second, the members of this forum convinced me that a Denon receiver would not disappoint and the were right. The Audyssey setup made a world of difference in my ability to enjoy these speakers.

 

In the end I went with a 7.1 system. A Denon X2000 receiver, two BIC America FH-6T front towers, a BIC America FH6-LCR center channel, two BIC Acoustech PL-66 surrounds, two BIC America FH6-LCR rear speakers, and a BIC PL-200 subwoofer. All wired with Knu Konceptz wiring.

 

For me its everything I wanted. The system has plenty of sound quality at both low and high volumes. I was also very impressed with the bass that comes from the FH-6T towers, the ports on those towers are very well balanced.

 

If anyone has any question on this setup or a component in the system feel free to ask. Thanks for you help guys!

 

[hometheaterguy]

This is a rare occasion I agree with Sanjay...

 

[cel4145]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RMjimbob  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24679192


All wired with Knu Konceptz wiring.

And I thought I might be the only one on the forum who knew about their wiring. I use their Karma SS wire

 

[RMjimbob]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1523530/new-home-needs-new-surround-sound-system#post_24687128



And I thought I might be the only one on the forum who knew about their wiring. I use their Karma SS wire

I use there Karma SS wire as well. I have a more extensive background in car stereo where I use their 8 gauge Karma SS for my sub-woofer wiring and the Kolossus Fleks Kable 1/0 Gauge for power. When I started looking for a surround sound system I found it to be a different animal than car audio but I kept my Knu Koncepts wiring. Its great stuff!