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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone-

I'm expecting to close on a new home in the next 10 days or so. I probably shouldn't be planning the theater on a home I don't have possession of yet, but it's a holiday weekend and with Covid we're not going anywhere so might as well fill the time.

This will be my 2nd home theater build.

I have a room with general dimensions of 20.5 x 20.5, with some oddities thrown in. The room is in the basement and the dimensions actually follow the great room on the floor above. The room is finished to ~9ft ceiling height with an HVAC soffit in the rear. I am not planning to tear all of the drywall out and start fresh for any isolation efforts. Over the last 10 years or so the theater, when blaring, has mostly be an inconvenience in only a few instances. Certainly not one we feel validate the effort and expense of stud isolation and double drywall, for our particular use case.

This being the DIY Speakers and Subs forum, I'm posting here before making a dedicated build thread, because I need to start watching the DIYSG site for speaker availability.

I've sold all of my theater equipment from my current house to the new buyers, so I'll be starting fresh with equipment.

Equipment that I am thinking for now
  • Epson 5050UB (or 6050UB)
  • 130" to 140" 16:9 Seymour Centerstage DIY
  • Denon AVR X4700H
  • Emotiva external amplifier (TBD)
  • DIYSG 1099 or HTM12 for LCR
  • DIYSG HT10 for surround
  • DIYSG HT8 or Volt8 for Atmos (TBD)
  • GSG Audio upcoming BTS 21" Marty for behind screen (x2)
  • GSG Audio upcoming BTS 21" Marty for right side wall cutout area
  • Maybe - A GSG Audio 21" Marty for the rear left where I can create a cubby
  • Behringer Sub Amps NU6000 (x2)
  • MiniDSP HD
The right side wall cutout exists as it mirrors the fireplace from the room above. It is currently finished with drywall and the previous owner used it as a giant shelf for AV equipment. There is also an approx. 8 foot entry way with a sliding door that I am not a fan of. Here is the room dimensions:



I don't like the 20.5 x 20.5 general dimension. I feel that it's too wide. I don't really want to do a scope screen as I believe scope content is maybe on 1/3rd of what we view. We used our old theater for a lot of Netflix, TV shows, Video games so the vast majority of content is 16:9. I also do not want to do something like a 160-170" screen to better leverage the width and thus have a less bright image. So, as a solution I am thinking to cut down the width of the room and use the left side as an entry way that can house movie posters or whatever. Here is the mocked up plans that I considering:



The spot where I call out "Equipment Rack or 4th Marty BTS" is dependent upon utilizing a unfinished storage section to place the AV equipment. If the equipment goes into storage area, then I can create a cubby that opens up to the theater room. If not, the equipment will be placed here facing into the entry hallway. The top half of the walls will be covered in fabric with absorption underneath. The fireplace nook would be covered with a false wall so as the nook to not be noticed at all. Columns around the room will be placed to contain the surround speakers. I've chosen HT10s for now simply because I have the width and depth available, and it's a minimal cost over HT8s. For atmos I'm thinking of creating openings in the drywall ceiling that I could essentially slide a bookshelf speaker into and mount with the baffle aligned with the drywall face. The opening would be covered with a DIY grill for aesthetics.


My Questions:

  1. I only do movie/gaming content. There is no music listening. Is there any reason to not save the money over the 1099 and go with the HTM12?
  2. In my old theater, I had 4 18" Ficar audio subs in an Infinite Baffle. I am quite familiar with single digit Hz at reference levels. I do feel like I was perhaps missing some upper sub-bass, what many may describe as chest-kick, I'd like to do better in this area with the new build without sacrificing the low end. Should I be mixing other sub configurations in the fireplace nook rather than a 3rd (or 4th) 21" Marty to match what is behind the screen?
  3. I like to listen at or near reference, sometimes my wife demands more of -10 type level, I had Klipsh Reference in my old theater and I do understand the bright/harsh/fatique comment many give, although I myself don't consider it fatiguing. Will I be heading down the same road with the DIYSG Waveguides? Is there any other speaker (DIY or not) that I should be looking at?
 

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Of the four GSG subwoofer kits you're considering, I would suggest at least 2 GSG 21" Devastators loaded with Eminence NSW6021:)
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Of the four GSG subwoofer kits you're considering, I would suggest at least 2 GSG 21" Devastators loaded with Eminence NSW6021:)
The only problem, as far as I understand it, is that I can’t get Devastators to fit behind the screen. I really only want to dedicate 24” to the space behind the screen.
 

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The only problem, as far as I understand it, is that I can’t get Devastators to fit behind the screen. I really only want to dedicate 24” to the space behind the screen.
What about your 3rd and 4th positions?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
What about your 3rd and 4th positions?
Could definitely get one in the 4th position. The 3rd isn’t deep enough. Would the differences in sub enclosure generate any rear localization if only the 4th was a devastator and the other 3 BTS Marty?

Edit: The Devestators are listed a 30” deep but only 24.75” wide. If turned on their side so the 24.75” dimension is essentially the depth of the false wall, is there any adverse effects? I imagine visible screen shaking become a problem at some point?
 

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The only problem, as far as I understand it, is that I can’t get Devastators to fit behind the screen. I really only want to dedicate 24” to the space behind the screen.
The boxes can be made with different dimensions, as long as the interior volume & port length & cross section area are maintained.
 

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You can check the Devastator Index. There are numerous designs that are 24" deep. The Devastator Version 4 has been a popular choice for that very reason :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You can check the Devastator Index. There are numerous designs that are 24" deep. The Devastator Version 4 has been a popular choice for that very reason :)
Thanks. I've been hopping in and out of the index the past couples of days during the holiday weekend. Still difficult to pin down a decision. If I did the V4, at 24" deep then the enclosure will essentially be near touching the false wall (screen mounting surfaces, ect). The ports would be below the screen so no velocity impact from it on the screen itself, but I plan to have the rest of the false finished with black fabric frames, if the fabric is say 1-3" from the ports would that induce obvious motion/flapping/ect? The room is currently finished with drywall, I may be able to cut away the drywall behind where I'd place the devastators and even the wood framing (perhaps re-frame around them) and gain about 4".

In my old theater which was 1914 cubic feet, I had this response with 4 18" FiCar Infinite Baffle.



I don't feel like I need that single digit frequency output, in fact I'm sure that was the cause of a lot of drywall screws starting to pop throughout the house, but the new room is also about 3000 cubic feet so over 50% more volume.

I feel confident in building the enclosure, have router, air compressor and nailer, jigsaw, miter saw, circular saw and track cutting kit. I'd really only need invest in clamps.

I think I'd prefer to not use the 4th sub location, and hope that 2 Devastators upfront along with something shallow in the 3rd slot location (as a fallback option) would do the trick. I don't really care much about all seats getting the best experience and am more concerned about the middle two seats of the front row being optimized.



So really, my biggest concert right now is about stuffing the Devastator behind the false wall and any impacts of it being so close to the false wall assembly (false wall framing, fabric frames, AT screen material, ect).

Also, any reason to not just plan on the HTM-12 over the 1099 if 100% movies, tv shows, and video games?
 

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Thanks. I've been hopping in and out of the index the past couples of days during the holiday weekend. Still difficult to pin down a decision. If I did the V4, at 24" deep then the enclosure will essentially be near touching the false wall (screen mounting surfaces, ect). The ports would be below the screen so no velocity impact from it on the screen itself, but I plan to have the rest of the false finished with black fabric frames, if the fabric is say 1-3" from the ports would that induce obvious motion/flapping/ect? The room is currently finished with drywall, I may be able to cut away the drywall behind where I'd place the devastators and even the wood framing (perhaps re-frame around them) and gain about 4".



In my old theater which was 1914 cubic feet, I had this response with 4 18" FiCar Infinite Baffle.







I don't feel like I need that single digit frequency output, in fact I'm sure that was the cause of a lot of drywall screws starting to pop throughout the house, but the new room is also about 3000 cubic feet so over 50% more volume.



I feel confident in building the enclosure, have router, air compressor and nailer, jigsaw, miter saw, circular saw and track cutting kit. I'd really only need invest in clamps.



I think I'd prefer to not use the 4th sub location, and hope that 2 Devastators upfront along with something shallow in the 3rd slot location (as a fallback option) would do the trick. I don't really care much about all seats getting the best experience and am more concerned about the middle two seats of the front row being optimized.







So really, my biggest concert right now is about stuffing the Devastator behind the false wall and any impacts of it being so close to the false wall assembly (false wall framing, fabric frames, AT screen material, ect).



Also, any reason to not just plan on the HTM-12 over the 1099 if 100% movies, tv shows, and video games?
Would a 48x30x20 box be of interest? I started toying with the idea, tune would be around 18 or 19Hz.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Would a 48x30x20 box be of interest? I started toying with the idea, tune would be around 18 or 19Hz.
Very interested. 24" seems like a common false wall depth chosen by many so having a few inches of wiggle room for a devastator seems ideal.
 

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The only real issue I see with your room layout is that the rear seating appears to be right up against the wall which could present issues for the rear surround speakers if thats the case.
 

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I went with Volt-8's in the rectangular box and made my own yoke brackets. I can precisely aim them wherever I want. One lag bolt into ceiling blocking allows them to rotate 360 degrees horizontally and the yoke allows them to rotate 360 degrees vertically, so can be precisely aimed.

Added
Used a piece of bar stock (1.5" x 3' x 1/4") to make the yoke. A couple 1/4-20 inserts, rubber washers between the cabinet and yoke and then 1/4-20 threaded knobs.
 

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I ran the box through the calculator at 48x30x20 and it looks like a very good solution with an 18Hz tune. The woofer is a SAN214.50 pushing 1000 watts with a BW 2nd order HPF at 18Hz active.


 

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The SEOS tweeters aren't bright at all, if anything they are dull; typical waveguide rolloff etc. That's why I use Fostex super tweeters above 10khz on my LCR's, it lets me play louder and with less distortion while also having flat extension well beyond 24khz. For most people that would be overkill, especially if you are mostly-movies. I'm 90% music and like it fairly loud, so the audio is everything/critical.

As for reducing the width of the room, I wouldn't. There is just something about the spaciousness of a large room that can't be captured with smaller rooms.
My room is 18ft wide (inside) with a 120" screen, and prefer if it were closer to 25ft; but your requirements are probably vastly different than mine...
 

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Definitely interested in seeing this theater progress.

I saw you posted a little while ago regarding a timetable for the DIYSG products to return. I inquired about purchasing some 1099s about two weeks ago, but have still yet to hear back, so I was wondering if you ever reached out to Erich and received a response.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Definitely interested in seeing this theater progress.

I saw you posted a little while ago regarding a timetable for the DIYSG products to return. I inquired about purchasing some 1099s about two weeks ago, but have still yet to hear back, so I was wondering if you ever reached out to Erich and received a response.
I did the contact form on the DIYSG page but never heard anything back. As soon as I close on the house I’m going to monitor the site multiple times a day up until I absolutely need to pull the trigger. I’m thinking the HTM-12 is likely fine but if 1099 become available I might just buy them due to how hard they seem to come by.
 

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The SEOS tweeters aren't bright at all, if anything they are dull; typical waveguide rolloff etc. That's why I use Fostex super tweeters above 10khz on my LCR's, it lets me play louder and with less distortion while also having flat extension well beyond 24khz. For most people that would be overkill, especially if you are mostly-movies. I'm 90% music and like it fairly loud, so the audio is everything/critical.

As for reducing the width of the room, I wouldn't. There is just something about the spaciousness of a large room that can't be captured with smaller rooms.
My room is 18ft wide (inside) with a 120" screen, and prefer if it were closer to 25ft; but your requirements are probably vastly different than mine...
Thanks for the feedback on the waveguide, I have no experience with them myself but I do trust the collective chants from AVS on this being a great bang for your buck option so I feel I have nothing to lose.

As for the room, I’ll post a build thread in the dedicated forums eventually. For some reason I feel it’s some sort of supernatural jinx to be planning this deep since I haven’t closed on the property yet. My ultimate concern is that it seems like the room is so large that even a 140-150” 16:9 screen is going to feel like a flat panel on the wall with tons of wasted space to the side. The previous owner had a projector in there and it just didn’t have that same dedicated feel.
 

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I ran the box through the calculator at 48x30x20 and it looks like a very good solution with an 18Hz tune. The woofer is a SAN214.50 pushing 1000 watts with a BW 2nd order HPF at 18Hz active.


I appreciate the time you’ve spent on this. I feel like this could be a good solution that goes after immersive LFE without sacrificing aesthetics.

I’m probably at best 6-8 weeks away from starting the subwoofer build (gotta move and all that) but could I trouble you to generate the cut list? No hurry at all on it given the time line.
 

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I appreciate the time you’ve spent on this. I feel like this could be a good solution that goes after immersive LFE without sacrificing aesthetics.



I’m probably at best 6-8 weeks away from starting the subwoofer build (gotta move and all that) but could I trouble you to generate the cut list? No hurry at all on it given the time line.
I think it is a design that will work well for a number of builders. I will add it to the Index in the not too distant future :)
 
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