AVS Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

So I just bought a new house, and the basement has a very nice dedicated home theater room with 8 movie style reclining chairs, projection set up, etc.  However old owner completely gutted the room except for the screen.  I think he had Atlantic Technology stuff in there before from pictures I've seen, with 7:2 set up and in wall speakers with floor standing subs.  The place is wired and just needs some hardware to fill the holes.

 

I have a budget around $20,000 and I'm thinking of getting:

 

Epson 5030 UBe projector

 

Marantz SR7008 AV receiveer

 

And spend the rest on speakers.

 

My local AV guy sells Marantz and Speakercraft discounted apparently and I'm pretty sure I'm getting in-walls.

 

However after reading a post here that commented on the fact that Speakercraft does not have an in-wall enclosure, and that open-backed in-wall speakers are the devil, that there were better speakers namely Triad, Klipsch, and Atlantic Technology.  I added Paradigm to that list after continuing to scour the inter webs.

 

So the ones I found that seem to be good, and approaching that price range are:

 

Triad Silver/6's

 

Paradigm SA series

 

Atlantic Technology IWTS-30's

 

And Klipsch THX Ultra 2 series of in-wall stuff.

 

I think I want floor subwoofers and I would have to price these separately with the Triad, Paradigm, and AT stuff, but I would likely get 2 12 inch subs.

 

Right now I think I'm leaning towards the Klipsch, but of course I'll never be able to listen to all of these products.  I think the Atlantic Technology and Paradigm SA series are probably going to be pushing out of the budget, but if they are significantly better I would consider.

 

So I guess my first question is: Help?!? - Does it sound like I'm getting it right here?  

 

More specifically, is the assumption that in-wall speakers with enclosures are better correct?  I feel like even if this isn't a correct assumption, going with Triad, Paradigm, AT, or Klipsch is definitely a step up from Speakercraft.

 

All of the speakers have max power rated at 150watt, is the 125 watt per channel Marantz enough juice or even the right AV receiver for what I'm trying to do?

 

What about this Klipsch KA-1000 sub amplifier that's included with the Ultra 2 series?  Is this doing anything special for me?

 

Please help!!!

 

Thanks in advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,532 Posts
You're going to get a bit of advice from here so I'll just start you off.


First, most subs have their own power amps - no worries. Those large woofers need a lot of power and that's much less strain on the receiver. No worries.


For that budget, you can do much better - and you'll get suggestions so. I'd personally get Salk speakers. www.salksound.com Call Jim and he can get into contact with someone near you who owns some that you can listen to.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/939744/the-official-salk-sound-owners-and-discussion-thread
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
265 Posts
You can obtain better speakers than Paradigm SA and still stay within budget. To start, would you prefer LOUD, dynamic and clean or accuracy and neutrality with the pontential to get it moderately loud? Are behind the screen speakers an option? If not, do aesthetics of the speaker matter?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
265 Posts
If your main focus is on making it sound like a movie theater and can do an acoustically transparent screen, this is a good option:

Three of these these

Four of these these

One of these these

One of these
these

Two Seaton Submersive Subwoofers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,049 Posts
If you were to do inwalls, I'd personally recommend the Triads or the ATs. I have heard the triad silvers (as surrounds) and thought they sounded great! AVS sells ATs and might be able to get you a good price. Also what size is the room? Subwoofer wise, take a look at what JTR/Seaton/Hsu/Rythmik/SVS/Power Sound Audio has to offer. In my personal opinion, much better value than the THX Ultra 2 Klipsch sub



If you don't do in walls, you could go with a devastating JTR Noesis 228 or 212 set up!


Regarding the power rating, in short it just means how much power they can take. Even though the Marantz is "rated" at 125wpc doesn't mean it will put out 125wpc all the time. If your room is small you'd probably only use like a quarter of that! Check it out! http://www.crownaudio.com/elect-pwr-req.htm Just put in 92 for sensitivity as I think the triads and AT are 92. Not the most accurate way to see how much power you'll need but it gives you somewhere to start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far.  I was hoping to get away with being lazy and not posting pictures, but I'm going to the house today so I'll take some and put them up so people get an idea.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannybenz  /t/1517732/new-home-theater-needs-speakers#post_24355594


You can obtain better speakers than Paradigm SA and still stay within budget. To start, would you prefer LOUD, dynamic and clean or accuracy and neutrality with the pontential to get it moderately loud? Are behind the screen speakers an option? If not, do aesthetics of the speaker matter?
 

This room/setup is going to be 95-99% movies/TV, including streaming stuff like netflix so I'd say for that I personally would rather have Loud and dynamic.  If I listen to music to really appreciate accuracy I'd listen to something with good headphones.

 

I will show you pictures later, but my screen is porous and the previous speakers were behind the screen so I was thinking I would keep that setup.

 

In my opinion, higher end technology is it's own aesthetic and looks good wherever you find it, but no I want the best sounding speakers no matter what they look like.

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by charmerci  /t/1517732/new-home-theater-needs-speakers#post_24355523


You're going to get a bit of advice from here so I'll just start you off.


First, most subs have their own power amps - no worries. Those large woofers need a lot of power and that's much less strain on the receiver. No worries.


For that budget, you can do much better - and you'll get suggestions so. I'd personally get Salk speakers. www.salksound.com Call Jim and he can get into contact with someone near you who owns some that you can listen to.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/939744/the-official-salk-sound-owners-and-discussion-thread
Thanks for the recommendation, from the discussion thread people obviously love the finished product and they are gorgeous to look at.  I didn't spend hours, but I didn't see any that looked in wall.  Also it seems like the wait can be long and I want the theater up and running.
Other questions from the responses.  I was noticing that the sensitivity of the JTR's that were recommended was much higher than some of the other speakers.  All this means is that given the same amount of Wattage coming from the amplifier, the speaker will sound louder correct?  This has nothing else to do with sound quality.  Assuming I decide to go with more power (that Emotiva XPR-5 really is a sexy beast), does this have any real consequence?
 

   Finally I think in the 2:30 am haze of hours of online reviewing I mentally miscalculated my budget.  Probably more in the realm of $15-16,000.

 

   Pictures to come later tonight.  Thanks again for all the advice so far!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
265 Posts
If you are looking for clean high spl then I would go with the setup I mentioned in post #4. If your budget is 5 grand less than the original 20k, then skip the amp for now. As you pointed out those jtr are very sensitive so the receiver should drive them to 100db, but it may tax the amp during peaks if you drive 7 speakers from it. Without the separate amp, this setup is still over budget if you include the projector you want. Maybe get one subwoofer for now, then add the amp and second sub later if you find it lacking


Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·

OK, I have some pictures, although I have to say they turned out terribly, maybe because of the wall lights.

 



 

So this is the best view I could get of most of the room.  8 seats, you can see the 3 in wall LCR speaker holes that were behind the screen.  The room is 15 feet across, and 21 feet long.  It's basically a rectangle although the area where the door is at cuts in at an angle and that affects the placement of the rear wall surrounds.

 



 

Here is a shot of the wall where the screen is.  You can also see the connector for one sub in the far right corner, there is another one in the left corner.

 



 

This is the angle of the door, you can see how the left rear surround is moved towards the center of the room, and the spot for the left front surround.

 



 

The back wall with placement of the rear surrounds and the projector cables hanging down from the ceiling.

 

 

So there is the set up.  As you can see, the fronts I do want in-wall, and the screen already allows sound pass through.  The surrounds don't have to be in-wall, but will have to be on-wall at least.

 

Last question.  How important is impedance matching the speakers to the output of the amp?

 

Thanks again for everyone's help.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,685 Posts
You got a beautiful room with lots of space.


If was you, I patch the wall, get some towers on the L/R of the screen, place a center dead in the middle (angle-up as needed).

The previous poster had some very good rerecomandation for alternative for speakers.

I personaltly use Aperion Verus Grand.


My point is , with such a nice space you should try to sepatete your left and right to give yourself and your guess the most and not every thing in the center


Keep posting of progress.


Ray
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,744 Posts
In your budget range for your in-wall setup, I would be looking at Atlantic Technology or Triad for speakers. For surrounds, I would look at JBL 8320 , or maybe 8340 or 8350 s if you can spend a bit more. Those are killer surround speakers for the price. In a small room like yours, the 8320 will be more than enough and only set you back $500 for a pair. These are the least expensive THX certified speakers that I know of, so they are good for the price. For subs, I would be looking at Seaton or JTR or Funk Audio . Get at least two subs. If it were me, I would go for some Funk 18.0se's. The distortion profile is beautiful oh those.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·

So I think I'm getting very confused about what is truly going to give me the "best" sound (I know there is some sense of "the eye of the beholder" here).

 

I was operating under the assumption that having the 3 in wall speakers were going to give me the best sense of movie sound, as the sound is coming right from the movie image itself, and such a large amount of the sound stage, especially dialogue volume, comes from the center, and the front in general.  From these posts I'm getting the impression that people think having floor standing fronts and center are going to be a better sound option.  I'm curious how much better if this is true, because as I look at the room again, I much prefer the in-wall behind the screen look where you can just focus on the big screen.  I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I searched in-wall speakers and spent about 2 hours looking at the results and I didn't find any real discussion of why one would be better than another.  For that matter, just based on reading reviews, it's hard to understand which manufacturer is any better than another at this price level.  For those people who made specific recommendations could they tell me why they feel that way objectively?  I did actually like the JTR recommendations, they look like really great speakers, but why is this so much better than say Triads, which also seem to have a great reputation here.  Also for subs, what makes one sub so much better than another besides pure power output?

 

For the surrounds, it is fine if these are wall mounted, or in wall, I don't mind either way.  I just want them to interact well with whatever I chose to be the front 3.  Is it OK not to get all the same manufacturer?  I've read that sometimes same manufacturer speakers are all "voiced" together.  Can you buy anything of comparable quality and just expect them all to function the same?

 

Finally, I'm really considering the power/pre-amp vs just one AV amp setup.  Assuming I wanted that Emotiva XPR-5, it only has 5 outs.  Which speakers do I give the power boost to, and which don't I?  Or is it only the front 3 that need the power?  I'm assuming that the subs will be powered in themselves.  For the other 2 or 4 speakers, I obviously need a true power AV receiver and not just an unpowered pre-processor.  What does that mean that some speakers are getting such a power boost and others are not?  Also, what is the purpose of having 400 watts per channel amplification for a speaker that can only accept 150-250 Watts of total power as it's upper limit?  Finally, some speakers are 8ohm, and other are 4ohm, I know I can put an 8 ohm amplifier out into either, but how much better would it be to impedance match, or does it not matter at all?

 

Lots of questions.  This is kind of hard, but still pretty fun.  I'm just wondering if all of this is really just about the ears and personal preference?  If so, then maybe I should just get the triad silver/6's and be done with it and save myself a lot of time and grief.  Maybe any well-revewed system at this price range will sound amazing and I'll never really even be aware of the incrementally "better" sounding speakers.  How do people use "evidence" to make suggestions or decide on the products they buy?

 

Like I said in my first post... Help!?!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,744 Posts
I don't think its terribly important to have the surrounds match the front stage. You just don't want them to be drastically different. The ideal is to use identical speakers for ever channel, but you would be spending an inordinate amount on the surrounds in that case, so the idea requires the ideal budget.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1517732/new-home-theater-needs-speakers#post_24362923


I don't think its terribly important to have the surrounds match the front stage. You just don't want them to be drastically different. The ideal is to use identical speakers for ever channel, but you would be spending an inordinate amount on the surrounds in that case, so the idea requires the ideal budget.
 

That makes sense.  So let me ask you, what made you pick those JBL's besides the obvious price restriction that I placed?  It's obvious from your answer that you have a certain way of calculating value as quality/price (which most people do of course), so given price, why are JBL's the best quality?

 

This is what I'm trying to learn.

 

Thanks for answering.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,744 Posts
JBL tends to a flat response plus high dynamic range. Here is the spec sheet for the 8320s . They have a fairly neutral response, so, as surrounds, they should blend in well with whatever front stage you decide on, as long as that front stage is somewhat neutral in response (all of the choices you are entertaining will be something like neutral). They are THX certified speakers that are $500 a pair, their impedance stays above 8 ohms for the entire frequency range, and they are 91 dB sensitive, so any AVR can drive them to blazing loudness levels with ease. You won't need separate amps for those JBLs. On top of all that they are easy to mount! Nothing else comes close to that kind of value for surrounds. All of these other companies will charge you an arm and a leg for surrounds which likely won't perform as well. Take the money saved from buying the JBL 8320s and add that to your subwoofer budget. The returns on subwoofer spending do not begin to diminish nearly as early as surround speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Bumping this thread to see if anyone else has any advice or answers to my above questions.  I'm going to look around to see if I can find someone that might have at least 1 thing on any of these lists to listen to.  Thanks a lot everyone who participated.  I learned a lot, and it's caused me to really think about what I'm doing.

 

Does anyone know any home theater places in the Cleveland area to try and visit to see if any of this gear can be test driven?

 

Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,788 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by guibby  /t/1517732/new-home-theater-needs-speakers#post_24362816


Like I said in my first post... Help!?!

And, I also say - look at Triad - they make nice/good stuff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So it's been quite a while ago, but the theater room is done. I thought I'd at least tell everyone what I did.

I found an amazing guy in the Cleveland area to help me with this project and I went with a lot of his recommendations that was also hopefully saving me some money as well. Like I said before, it's unfortunate but there is just no way to test higher end gear if you aren't in the trade so you have to rely on people who might have some experience. If you are in the Cleveland area and want a recommendation for someone just ask me, I can't recommend him highly enough.

In the end, here's what we did:

Marantz SR7008
Episode speakers - 3 ES-HT950-IW-7 fronts (in-wall)
4 ES-HT950-IWSURR-6 dipole surrounds (in-wall)
2 ES-SUB-EV012-300 (12 inch 300Watt powered subs)

URC MRX-IOS remote control Kit with URC MRF A600M lighting control - was somewhat costly, but awesome in the end

Sony VPL-HW55ES projector

We also got 2 outdoor speakers (there is a huge deck and pool outside) that is controlled with the universal remote package - as is 2 speakers in another room in the basement.

Parasound ZAMP Quattro 4X50 power amp
ES-AW-6-WHT Episode outdoor loudspeakers with 6.5" woofers

I think the whole thing looks and sounds amazing. Not to mention it's all controlled on hand-held devices (iPad mini or iPod touch) including the lighting and the outdoor speakers from anywhere. Obviously in the end I can never know if the triads, or JTR or AT, or any of that other stuff may have been better or worse. I couldn't find a lot of information about Episode speakers, but most people seemed very happy with them. For only 300 watt, the subs are pretty strong, although in my mind's imagination sometimes I think the bass they give isn't as rich as I think it should be, but on the other hand, they aren't turned up all the way because it's too much base if we do. The comparison I was given was that these Episodes had the sound quality of Triad golds, but that was someone's opinion so take with a grain of salt. I've never compared the 2 side by side.

A final few words: Upstairs in family room I went with my gut and got a Hsu bookshelf system and I freaking love it. We got the Rosewood and it is beautiful with the VTF-3 MK4 sub which is a beast. Also got the Bravia 65 XBR 4K Ultra HD for family room and I can't say enough for this TV, especially for things like Netflix that really uses the 4K. Sometimes we forget we can be watching the same stuff on theater size screen because it's so beautiful, especially scenes with high black/white contrast.

Anyways, thanks for all the advice above. I think a lot of those recommendations would have made for killer systems as well, but mine turned out pretty fantastic as well.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top