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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The Oconee Theater

This first post will be modified as necessary

MAJOR UPGRADE IN PROGRESS (01/25/21):


About 4 years ago, at a CEDIA, I heard and fell in love with the audio during a HT Demo using all Wisdom speakers. That room contained (excluding the subs) well over $100,000 worth of Wisdom speakers. Even though we were sitting far from the optimal position in the room, it was the best sound we heard and simply have never been able to get that sound out of my head.

More recently, I was able to calibrate (Trinnov) a slightly more "modest" Wisdom room that was simply breath taking. I have been working with this client for a couple of years as he moved from some very nice point source speakers to now all Wisdom speakers. The best musical presentation I have ever heard in a home and for movies, just stupid good. So, I have decided that I want to replicate THAT room in my home. My new speakers will ship at the end of this month and I have someone coming in about 10 days to help me modify my room. The speakers will ship at the end of this month.

For LCRs, I will be using 3 Wisdom Audio Sage Line 2 (see below). These require bi-amping using the Trinnov as the electronic crossover.

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For surround (and Wide) duty, I will be using 6 of the Wisdom Audio L8i from the Insight Series:

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Both of the Sage Line 2 and the L8i are about 4 feet tall.
The L&R will be just to the outside of the screen.

The Wisdom ISC7a will be used for (initially) four 3D Audio Speakers as it uses the same PMD technology as do all other speakers:

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So I will now be selling all of my Triad speakers.

Measured at either improved sound quality ---- or MSRP --- this will be the most significant change I have ever made to my HT audio. I'm not getting any younger so decided to blow it out one last time and "go big".
***
[It was either this or a new Porsche but I spend more time in the theater than I do driving] 😁

***

NOTE:
This first post will be updated as there are any changes in equipment and/or room decor. All other posts will remain unchanged

Thought about attaching a new name to our re-done theater/listening room, but .........after looking at the posted photos of the re-completed room, we can not really call this room the "Black Pit" or "The Abyss". Gray columns, mostly gray carpet, and mostly dark gray ceiling. So, we will just leave it as "The Oconee Theater".

This "re-decorating" project was all a result of the thread ("The Blacker The Theater The Better The Image") -- and an attempt to make the room look less like a recording studio and more like a theater. At first I was skeptical but tried a few things and it really made a difference. I don't know how to do anything part way .... so I'm not.

All of the original room treatment shown in the first photo is still there in the following, but covered with black GOM (or equivalent). The first 5 feet of the ceiling is covered in black velvet. Under the front soffit is covered in black velvet. All wall surfaces/doors are covered in black GOM. The four columns are covered in gray GOM. The first 8.5 feet of carpet was replaced by very (or not so very when compared to black velvet) black carpet.

A part of the differences you see in the following photos is the switch (in the first photo) from incandescent 2700K bulbs to 5000K LED bulbs in the "AFTER" photo. And FWIW, the colors in the 2nd and following photos are far more representative of what the room actually looks like - but still not very accurate.

BEFORE:





AFTER:








____

GENERAL
:The room dimensions are 22 x 19.3 x 8. The room was originally a loft but we fully enclosed it: double dry wall; Green Glue, carpet underlay to reduce sound from creeping into other parts of the house, new doors and door seals and thresholds, sealed all electrical outlets. The room was originally 27 feet long but took off 5 feet to get better acoustic dimensions and to create a separate room for my equipment and media storage and center channel (behind an AT screen). Have 5 dedicated 20 amp circuits with 4 being used: 1 for front subs; 1 for rear subs; 1 for all front end equipment and 1 for amps.

VIDEO EQUIPMENT:JVC RS4500 Laser Projector; Panamorph Paladin Lens; Lumagen RadiancePro; Seymour Acoustically Transparent 2:35 120 x 51 inch screen (~1.0 Gain - XD Material);

SPEAKERS: Room is setup in a 9.2.4 configuration. LCRs: Wisdom Audio Sage Line 2; Surrounds and Wides: (6) Wisdom Audio L8i; SUBS: 8 Seaton F18 subs (2 Masters and 6 Slaves driven by 4000 watt amp in each Master -- 2 in each of the front two corners) and (4) Seaton F18's located along the rear wall; ; 3D Audio ceiling speakers: (4) Wisdom Audio Sage ICS7a

ELECTRONICS: Trinnov Altitude 32-24 Surround Processor; Pure Power APS 2000 Power Conditioner; (3) ATI - AT54XNC Amplifiers - 1 Six Channel, 1 Seven Channel and 1 Eight Channel

SOURCES: Synology NAS DS1817+ (32TB/~22TB Usable); Nvidia Shield for viewing ripped movies via Plex; YouTube TV app as well as Netflix and Amazon; Apple TV 4K = access to Apple TV+ and Hulu; Zappiti 4K Pro HDR for also watching ripped movies; Oppo 203 4K Blu Ray Player; SGC (Small Green Computer) sonicTransporter i5 CDR for running Roon Core for music playback (ripped files and Qobuz) and collection management.

ACOUSTIC TREATMENT: Room design and all acoustic treatment by GIK. First reflections point: GIK q7D diffusors (2 per side) - Covered by cosmetic beveled panels from Acoustimac; Front wall:all absorption; rear side walls: GIK Monster Bass Traps with Scatter Plates (3 per side); Rear wall: (3) GIK q7D's with (2) GIK Monster Bass Traps with Scatter Plates; Left rear corner: GIK Soffit Traps; Front corners: Custom corner traps; Soffit: DIY soffits traps; Ceiling Cloud: GIK 244 Bass Traps (3); The

ROOM CALIBRATION: Video calibrated by Craig Rounds: CIR Engineering; Initial Trinnov Calibration by Adam Pelz

ROOM SHORTCOMINGS: When the room was built, one of the design criteria was to provide isolation from theater sounds being heard in other parts of the house - or external sounds from coming into the room. THAT turned out to be a major failure. Second story rooms (and their wooden suspended floors) present obstacles that are difficult to overcome. In this particular room, it was close to impossible due to a shared AC system with the first floor so leakage through the vent system is a given - short of having re-done the AC system for an additional $20,000. I could have done things like double doors, clips and channels but none of them would have addressed the "leaky" HVAC system.

So while this room does not do a great job of keep sounds in or out (unlike my previous basement-based rooms), it has to be good enough - and it is!

And the "black carpet" was a poor investment. It is simply not black enough to do what I wanted. Better than the "dark gray" that it replaced? Yes and by a large amount. I should either have done a better job of finding a more "black" carpet or built some floor panels covered in black velvet for the first 5 or 6 feet. But I didn't - and won't.

LISTENING BIASES: This room is used for both movies and music. I figured out a long time ago that there is not a 2 channel system capable of recreating a live event in any room - at any price. Multi-channel enhancement of 2 channel music, to my ears, is a huge improvement over 2 channel (still not marginally close to a live event). I used to believe that a great home audio system could at least reproduce a 3 piece jazz combo. But then my wonderful bride surprised me for a birthday and hired a 3 piece jazz combo to play in our home. If live music is 100, then the very, very best 2 channel audio system is a 10 - maybe!!! It is that far apart. So I quit the chase toward perfection (and the attendant expense) and decided to focus on fun. (Still ain't cheap - and it is still an addiction interesting hobby!!!). There are very few pieces of music that don't sound more "fun" to my ears when expanded to multi-channel. In the FWIW department, if you were to sit at the MLP listening to music, you would not know you were not listening to 2-channel - until I switched to 2-channel.

Given my age and how long I listened to JUST 2 channels, the transition took a while, but now there is no going back - thanks, in part, to CraigJohn, my RS20i Trinnov Altitude and AuroMatic. I tried both Dolby DSU and DTS:Neural-X for up-mixing but both sounded too processed and nothing close to natural. AuroMatic (actually, this is a modified version of AuroMatic as listening to "real" AuroMatic sounds very bass bloated), with the realtime adjustments possible on the Trinnov (and before that, the Datasat LS10/RS20i), really does make the sound far more enjoyable (real?; live?) than does just 2 channels.

WHAT WOULD I DO DIFFERENTLY IF I WERE STARTING OVER: Have a slightly wider screen (maybe 12 feet vs current 10 feet) with the left and right speaker behind it. "Sacrifice 😟" (to save the money) the 11.x.10 Triad configuration and go with a 7.x.4 configuration BUT use Wisdom Line Source Speakers (only thing I have heard that betters the Triads --- BUT at a 77% increase in MSRP). Disconnect my existing central HVAC system (all duct work, etc) and use a miniSplit for the theater (greatly reduce ambient room noise); Instead of building a space for an equipment room, use a tiny part of the bedroom behind the theater; Either go with Seaton SubMersives (vs existing Seaton F18s) or Funk Audio subs.

The ONLY item on the above list that is a possibility is the switch from my existing in room Triad Platinums to in-wall Triad Platinums.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thank you. The red throw blankets add just the needed touch of color.

As noted above, the sound for music (using DiracLive on my server) is very nice. I will need to re-run Audyssey (Pro) as the sound for movies is a bit less than stellar.

Since this is the first time I have had a theater on a second story (wooden floor - not a basement concrete floor) the bass response is quite a different tactile sensation. It will take some getting use to.

I have kept track of your theater also and LOVE the crisp look of the room as well as the speakers you selected. (And my OCD antenna went hyperactive when I observed all of the vacuum marks on you carpet).

What a strange hobby/disease/addiction we have !!!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy  /t/1508517/new-house-new-theater#post_24136414


Thank you. The red throw blankets add just the needed touch of color.


As noted above, the sound for music (using DiracLive on my server) is very nice. I will need to re-run Audyssey (Pro) as the sound for movies is a bit less than stellar.


Since this is the first time I have had a theater on a second story (wooden floor - not a basement concrete floor) the bass response is quite a different tactile sensation. It will take some getting use to.


I have kept track of your theater also and LOVE the crisp look of the room as well as the speakers you selected. (And my OCD antenna went hyperactive when I observed all of the vacuum marks on you carpet).


What a strange hobby/disease/addiction we have !!!!

We have somewhat similar tastes. I have a 7.2 JTR set-up but the Seaton Cats have always intruiged me and would love to hear them one day. I just ordered new LCR speakers today...got the JTR Noesis 212 for LCR as a replacement for my JTR T12 and T8. Now time to start saving up my pennies for a 4K projector like yours :)


Enjoy your new room. It is awesome!!!
 

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Love the look of your new room.


I can only imagine how nice it will sound once you are at 100% complete and done tweaking. Your previous room is still my favorite sounding room to date, so I hope to hear this one some day.
 

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Discussion Starter #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich  /t/1508517/new-house-new-theater#post_24137117


We have somewhat similar tastes. I have a 7.2 JTR set-up but the Seaton Cats have always intruiged me and would love to hear them one day. I just ordered new LCR speakers today...got the JTR Noesis 212 for LCR as a replacement for my JTR T12 and T8. Now time to start saving up my pennies for a 4K projector like yours :)


Enjoy your new room. It is awesome!!!

Thanks again. I came close to getting JTR speakers for my surrounds because I was not able to get comfortable with a firm date commitment on the release of the thinner profile Sparks. That could still happen.


I'm sure your room sounds incredible as well. You have a serious amount of woofage.


I can't tell from the photos but do you have any kind of room treatment?
 

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Simply Awesome Audioguy!
 

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Happy New Year Chuck. How's the new house coming along?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for checking in. The house is complete and the theater is 98% complete (some cosmetic issues and installing my new Sony 600ES and getting Control4 up and running). Also need to get Audyssey to sound a bit better.


The good news is that the "upper midrange glare" I could never completely eliminate in my other theater appears to be gone
 

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That's great news, buddy. So what do you think is different between the two rooms that eliminated the glare?
 

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Nice theater Audioguy.
 

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Discussion Starter #13

Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek  /t/1508517/new-house-new-theater#post_24148209


That's great news, buddy. So what do you think is different between the two rooms that nmeliminated the glare?

I'm not sure of the cause in the other room nor the cure in this room. I'm reasonably convinced it was the type or placement of acoustic treatment and I did this room a good bit differently. What I do know is that I'm glad it's gone!
 

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That's fantastic buddy. So when do we get an invite?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy  /t/1508517/new-house-new-theater#post_24182243



As soon as I figure out what is wrong with one of my speakers and re-run Audyssey!!
Sounds like a great plan.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Watched a few minutes of the 4K version of Spider Man earlier today. Incredible



I have a new version of the OmniMic test data disk that has test signals for 5.1 channels. Helped a friend today to use it and by modifying sub distances in his SSP, got virtually flat response in all channels. Amazing. I will be doing the same to my system this weekend hopefully after re-running Audyssey.
 

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That room looks really nice Chuck. Your gear and layout are top notch. I see you are running Aud pro but you are also running DIRAC Live? It seems like that's just for music in your system. Can you use it for movies as well. If so, what would happen to the Aud calibration. Would you just not use it? Again, great room and I am on the second floor as well. Although a much smaller room.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy  /t/1508517/new-house-new-theater#post_24134933




Upgrade possibilities: The on-wall Seaton Sparks that will fit into the four columns that were sized based upon the rumored dimension. I have no idea when they will be ready for production nor what the price will be. The next upgrade will be to try (it is on order) the yet to be delivered Emotiva SSP that will utilize Dirac, which, at least for music running on my server, is a far superior product (in my opinion) than Audyssey.


Dirac give you three choices for measurement: Single seat; Couch; room. And it is VERY carefully spelled out almost exactly where the measurement are to be taken from, and how many.
Looks great, too bad DIRAC is not available other than on the DATASAT and Computers!
 
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