AVS Forum banner

New HSU offering looks interesting

18K views 214 replies 38 participants last post by  pbc 
#1 ·
#3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 /forum/post/19460074


Does look like a pretty good sub. Identical performance to the PB-13 at a lot less money.

Yea, two of those for a couple grand is a pretty good deal.

Not DIY good deal but a good deal.
 
#5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass /forum/post/19462398


I'm generally a Hsu fan, but I'm having a hard time swallowing the 350W +6dB of burst power, as well as the posted max output numbers. The driver would have to be 99dB sensitive, making the posted FR questionable.


My 2 cents.


Bosso

You certainly know more about the specs and what is and isn't possible. I like the fact that they were honest with the numbers. Time will tell on it's performance.
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass
I'm generally a Hsu fan, but I'm having a hard time swallowing the 350W +6dB of burst power, as well as the posted max output numbers. The driver would have to be 99dB sensitive, making the posted FR questionable.


My 2 cents.


Bosso
The posted numbers were for 1 meter, not two meters.
 
#7 ·
The ad copy is a bit over the top. There's no basis for claiming that low Q drivers equates to "tighter bass". In fact, because most low q drivers have a high Qms:Qes ratio - in ported alignments they tend to exhibit the opposite behavior - less control at high excursion. That has been my experience and over the years - one reason why I've gravitated towards higher Qts drivers.
 
#8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass /forum/post/19462398


I'm generally a Hsu fan, but I'm having a hard time swallowing the 350W +6dB of burst power, as well as the posted max output numbers. The driver would have to be 99dB sensitive, making the posted FR questionable.


My 2 cents.


Bosso

have you posted in the HSU thread...I remember them saying the amp has 1200 or 1400Watt peaks.


The measurements are CEA2010 standard measurements and HSU isnt a company to lie completely about something.


Granted I agree they can "Spin" stuff. The ULS-15 "Flat to 10Hz" BS was complete spin but that is what Marketing departments do. They should be pushing to the edge to sell a product so I have no problem with that. People online are always available to prove what is really true.
 
#9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/19464762


have you posted in the HSU thread...I remember them saying the amp has 1200 or 1400Watt peaks.


The measurements are CEA2010 standard measurements and HSU isnt a company to lie completely about something.


Granted I agree they can "Spin" stuff. The ULS-15 "Flat to 10Hz" BS was complete spin but that is what Marketing departments do. They should be pushing to the edge to sell a product so I have no problem with that. People online are always available to prove what is really true.

My ULS was flat to 10 in my room.
 
#10 ·
Yes, I know they are flat but we already had the conversation about how it was flat at a lower SPL that can not be heard.


The spin is that many sealed designs can be EQed flat to 10Hz that isnt the hard part the hard part is getting enough SPL down there for it to be meaningful. saying "flat to 10Hz" to me means that its has enough SPL even down to 10Hz to matter.
 
#11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by t6902wf /forum/post/19460109


Yea, two of those for a couple grand is a pretty good deal.

Not DIY good deal but a good deal.

Except that you got a dts-10 for around a grand. That is a much better deal.
 
#12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater /forum/post/19464890


Except that you got a dts-10 for around a grand. That is a much better deal.

I have EQ and Amp so it was not quite a grand. No doubt the best bass deal was the DTS-10. Wish I could have fit 2.
 
#13 ·
When you look back and now they sell for $3000 that was THE deal!!! I wish I bought 2 more.


I have dual CS18.2's coming this weekend.
 
#15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 /forum/post/19462886


The posted numbers were for 1 meter, not two meters.

Yes, I'm aware of the specifics. I still doubt the numbers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/19464762


have you posted in the HSU thread...I remember them saying the amp has 1200 or 1400Watt peaks.


The measurements are CEA2010 standard measurements and HSU isnt a company to lie completely about something.

I respect Dr. Hsu and have a good relationship with Pete, so I prefer to keep out of their threads, but this is the DIY section and the subject has been broached.


I don't know of any amp that has +6dB of burst capability, so I'd like to see more specific data to confirm that fact. Since they posted the spec, I don't feel it's out of line to question the specifics.


I'm also a bit ruffled at the recent trend to use a pro sound driver and post high max output capability at 63Hz vs 20Hz, but then post a +/-2dB response (which really means +0/-4dB, but is still shows the max numbers at single frequencies to be misleading) from 20-200Hz (or whatever).


Since the PB13Ultra is a proven entity, tested by an irreproachable source, the comparisons are already flying, but based on the manufacturer's posted numbers, which I doubt anyone with credibility will verify.


SVS, whose marketing jargon sometimes borders on the absurd, posts a response of +/-3dB 18-150Hz, but they also post a confirming GP frequency response magnitude graph which is verified by Ilkka.


The CEA #s for the Ultra show 20Hz vs 63Hz max output to have a 6dB difference, which can be said to be +/-3dB.


The Hsu posted numbers show an 11dB difference from 20Hz vs 63Hz, which can't be construed to be +/-2dB by any method.


I prefer that they just say it's a great sub for the money and leave it at that.


Why all of a sudden are we adding +6dB to a 2M GP number? GP adds +6dB to an anechoic free air number, thus the reason to move the GP distance to 2M.


Ed's, Ilk's and Charlie's efforts over the past decade are slowly being eroded and tossed out the window. As you say, that's what marketing folks do for a living, but that doesn't change my perspective.


Soon we'll be seeing under specifications:


Max output: Teeth rattling, pants flapping.

Extension: Really, really, really deep.

Plate amp: 20,000W peak (150W RMS).


Even used car retailers have to put the paragraph of micro-fine print at the bottom of the ad while the voice over is spewing BS.



Hey, maybe the numbers are all good. I love to be proven wrong. But I tend to not want to compare Ilkka's PB ULtra numbers to Hsu's own test results numbers.


Bosso
 
#16 ·
Where are you guys seeing output numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by villastrangiato /forum/post/19464451


In fact, because most low q drivers have a high Qms:Qes ratio - in ported alignments they tend to exhibit the opposite behavior - less control at high excursion. That has been my experience and over the years - one reason why I've gravitated towards higher Qts drivers.

Makes no sense to me.


Could you describe your experience in further detail?
 
#18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass /forum/post/19465682



Soon we'll be seeing under specifications:


Max output: Teeth rattling, pants flapping.

Extension: Really, really, really deep.

Plate amp: 20,000W peak (150W RMS).



Bosso
-Don't give them any ideas.....My theory is they don't like to give the fine print details out because they don't want anyone to be able to duplicate the conditions and discover it's all B.S.


my $.02
 
#20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador /forum/post/19466053


Slightly off-topic but how does one calculate triangle ports in winisd? I'm not very good at math...

Combine the net cross sectional areas. If the tubes are unequal length - take an average. Not sure how it's configured - haven't bothered to look. Most of these "configurations" are pure gimmick with little or no real value. The take away is that the calculators use formulas that rely on cross sectional area and tube length. If it's a weirdo tube configuration with multiple tubes that are tapered or odd shaped - a sum of cross sectional average areas and average of tube length should get you in the ball park.
 
#21 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz /forum/post/19465952


Where are you guys seeing output numbers?


Found here...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/newre...ply&p=19446785


Curtis posted this....



There is a sealed mode.


Size: 25" x 18" x 26" HWD add 1" for feet and 1" for grille.


FR ground plane is 15-200Hz +-2dB


and for you output junkies: 123-125dB max clean CEA2010 peak output capability from 40-100hz, 121dB@31.5Hz, 118dB@25Hz, 114dB@20Hz (these are with both ports open @ 1 meter).


The kicker....$879 in matte black....$999 in real wood veneer!! The fit and finish on both were excellent!
 
#22 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass /forum/post/19465682


Yes, I'm aware of the specifics. I still doubt the numbers.





I respect Dr. Hsu and have a good relationship with Pete, so I prefer to keep out of their threads, but this is the DIY section and the subject has been broached.


I don't know of any amp that has +6dB of burst capability, so I'd like to see more specific data to confirm that fact. Since they posted the spec, I don't feel it's out of line to question the specifics.


I'm also a bit ruffled at the recent trend to use a pro sound driver and post high max output capability at 63Hz vs 20Hz, but then post a +/-2dB response (which really means +0/-4dB, but is still shows the max numbers at single frequencies to be misleading) from 20-200Hz (or whatever).


Since the PB13Ultra is a proven entity, tested by an irreproachable source, the comparisons are already flying, but based on the manufacturer's posted numbers, which I doubt anyone with credibility will verify.


SVS, whose marketing jargon sometimes borders on the absurd, posts a response of +/-3dB 18-150Hz, but they also post a confirming GP frequency response magnitude graph which is verified by Ilkka.


The CEA #s for the Ultra show 20Hz vs 63Hz max output to have a 6dB difference, which can be said to be +/-3dB.


The Hsu posted numbers show an 11dB difference from 20Hz vs 63Hz, which can't be construed to be +/-2dB by any method.


I prefer that they just say it's a great sub for the money and leave it at that.


Why all of a sudden are we adding +6dB to a 2M GP number? GP adds +6dB to an anechoic free air number, thus the reason to move the GP distance to 2M.


Ed's, Ilk's and Charlie's efforts over the past decade are slowly being eroded and tossed out the window. As you say, that's what marketing folks do for a living, but that doesn't change my perspective.


Soon we'll be seeing under specifications:


Max output: Teeth rattling, pants flapping.

Extension: Really, really, really deep.

Plate amp: 20,000W peak (150W RMS).


Even used car retailers have to put the paragraph of micro-fine print at the bottom of the ad while the voice over is spewing BS.



Hey, maybe the numbers are all good. I love to be proven wrong. But I tend to not want to compare Ilkka's PB ULtra numbers to Hsu's own test results numbers.


Bosso

They do think highly of their stuff.


They also use the term "distortion free output" a lot when questioned about their numbers, and no output is "distortion free" its all relative.
 
#23 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass /forum/post/19465682


The Hsu posted numbers show an 11dB difference from 20Hz vs 63Hz, which can't be construed to be +/-2dB by any method.

The 11dB difference is maximum output at a given frequency. The +/-2dB is when sent a frequency sweep at a lower output level.
 
#24 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi /forum/post/19466765


They do think highly of their stuff.


They also use the term "distortion free output" a lot when questioned about their numbers, and no output is "distortion free" its all relative.

By CEA2010 standards, THD can be quite high ... and the actual tone bursts are quite short.


Here are the standards for each distortion component:


2nd Harmonic: 31.6%

3rd Harmonic: 17.8%

4th harmonic: 10%

5th harmonic: 10%

6th-8th harmonics: 3.16% each

9th and above: 1% each


Doing the math for THD is simple enough from here.


Tone burst length is as follows:


20 Hz: .325 second

25 Hz: .260 second

31.5 Hz: .206 second

40 Hz: .163 second
 
#25 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub /forum/post/19467112


By CEA2010 standards, THD can be quite high ... and the actual tone bursts are quite short.


Here are the standards for each distortion component:


2nd Harmonic: 31.6%

3rd Harmonic: 17.8%

4th harmonic: 10%

5th harmonic: 10%

6th-8th harmonics: 3.16% each

9th and above: 1% each


Doing the math for THD is simple enough from here.


Tone burst length is as follows:


20 Hz: .325 second

25 Hz: .260 second

31.5 Hz: .206 second

40 Hz: .163 second


Thanks for taking the time to post useful data. With all the useless B.S. that masquerades as data around this forum and others - it's refreshing.



Is there any background provided on the type of impulse used for these standards?
 
#26 ·
Penn or any anyone for that matter,


I've seen it mention several times about meaningful spl at 10hz. What would be enough spl at 10hz to be meangingful? Also when manufactures say flat to a certain frequency, what spl is this based on? If someone can explain this or point me to where this is explained. It would be appreciated. Thanks
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top