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New HSU VTF-2 MK5, muffled at MLP...

2284 Views 17 Replies 10 Participants Last post by macgallant, Oct 25, 2019

Majicpanda

Discussion Starter · Oct 22, 2019

Setup:
JBL 590s + JBL 520C + JBL 290s as surrounds
Denon x3400H
HSU VTF-2 MK5

I've just set this thing up and used a very poor man's crawl by just using a spectrum analyzer on my phone and I actually did see some nulls and moved the sub a bit til it looked more fluid of a dropoff. The Q-control to .5 (I liked this over .3 or .7). 1 port open. EQ mode 1.

I tossed on The Force Awakens and while sitting on the back wall this thing completely blows me away. I am about 3 ft off wall in a chair at my desk and if I move back to the MLP couch the bass definitely deteriorates in extension and just all around. Sometimes the bass even sounds muffled and choked off. I thought maybe it was my Denon stressing out because I'm pushing all speakers with it at -5db and it was hot, but as I moved to my desk it sounded just mind blowing the entire rest of the movie.

Do I have any way to move the sub anywhere else to fix this or is the problem just because my MLP is dead center in the room? I've read it's poor to put the couch right in the center but we really have no other way to lay out this room.

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1 - 18 of 18 Posts

eljaycanuck

· #2 · Oct 22, 2019

Your MLP is likely in a large null. Options to resolve this include:
- moving your MLP forward or back; and/or
- doing a sub crawl to find a couple or three optimal (best overall FR at the MLP) locations for your sub and placing the sub in one of them.

Sn1per666

· #3 · Oct 22, 2019

Sitting in the middle of the room is the problem here. In this case a near field placement may be necessary if you cannot change your MLP.

Reactions: 1

Majicpanda

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 22, 2019

Sn1per666 said:
Sitting in the middle of the room is the problem here. In this case a near field placement may be necessary if you cannot change your MLP.

I was about to pull the trigger on a 25' cable and a cable management strip because I would have to run it past a a door so if this is actually a possible fix then I will continue down this road. The only spot I could place it is behind the right chair. I tried to get the wife to go for it being a new end table but if anything got spilled on it..... yeaa.

Majicpanda

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 23, 2019

I was able to get the sub next to the couch and I felt the bass but I can't unhear what I know can be possible at the back of the room.

Tried moving the couch back 2ft but the only good listening positions seem to be against the walls.

The ceiling is vaulted and I read something about that being very bad for nearfield... RIP this living room!!

I assume no matter what wall or position the sub is I'm sol. Moving the LP to the sweet spot means 15ft from my 65" TV which is also not very acceptable. Bit defeated here. Living room home theater woes eh?

Kini62

· #6 · Oct 23, 2019

Majicpanda said:
I was able to get the sub next to the couch and I felt the bass but I can't unhear what I know can be possible at the back of the room.

Tried moving the couch back 2ft but the only good listening positions seem to be against the walls.

The ceiling is vaulted and I read something about that being very bad for nearfield... RIP this living room!!

I assume no matter what wall or position the sub is I'm sol. Moving the LP to the sweet spot means 15ft from my 65" TV which is also not very acceptable. Bit defeated here. Living room home theater woes eh?

Have you tried the sub in the front right corner? Corners are usually a pretty good spot. If you already tried it in the front right, try both rear corner placements. Also might want to try and have the sub fire into the wall and see if that makes a difference.

I rotated my Deftech SC8000 so that it fires into the wall (right rear corner of my room about 4' from the MLP) and it made a noticeable improvement. Sub is about 4" from the wall. My room is almost square, 13x14x9.

Majicpanda

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 23, 2019

Kini62 said:
Have you tried the sub in the front right corner? Corners are usually a pretty good spot. If you already tried it in the front right, try both rear corner placements. Also might want to try and have the sub fire into the wall and see if that makes a difference.

I rotated my Deftech SC8000 so that it fires into the wall (right rear corner of my room about 4' from the MLP) and it made a noticeable improvement. Sub is about 4" from the wall. My room is almost square, 13x14x9.

The bottom left of the picture leads into a hallway and the entire left side is also an open concept half wall kitchen. I have not tried a corner yet as I don't have any cords to reach, but moving the couch 4ft from either wall seems to "resolve" problems. We have a vaulted ceiling on top of everything else wrong with this room so I think I need a new house. Wife isn't going for it.

bobknavs

· #8 · Oct 23, 2019

Majicpanda said:
I was about to pull the trigger on a 25' cable and a cable management strip because I would have to run it past a a door so if this is actually a possible fix then I will continue down this road. The only spot I could place it is behind the right chair. I tried to get the wife to go for it being a new end table but if anything got spilled on it..... yeaa.

You could also use a wireless adapter (Outlaw Audio OAW4, SVS Soundpath). The main downside to that is the lag. For the OWA4, it's something less than 20ms. (1ms is roughly the same delay as moving the sub 1 foot, 0.3m, farther away.)

Spilling something on a VTF-2 Mk5 may not be all that dire, although you wouldn't want fluids trickling into the driver or plate amp. Keep the drinks small.

Reactions: 1

Alan P

· #9 · Oct 23, 2019

Majicpanda said:
I was able to get the sub next to the couch and I felt the bass but I can't unhear what I know can be possible at the back of the room.

I wanted to mention that the couch against the back wall is a bad place to be as well. Bass will build up along room boundaries and in corners, at these locations the bass can become "boomy" and "muddy" and should be avoided. The ideal location of the MLP is between the 1/5th and 1/3rd points of the room (between 3.5' and 5.5' from the back wall in your room)...as has been mentioned, the 1/2 point is to be avoided at all costs.

Depending on how much you want to spend...and how much your wife wants to keep the couch in the center of the room...this can be fixed with multiple subs.

Majicpanda

Discussion Starter · #10 · Oct 23, 2019

Alan P said:
I wanted to mention that the couch against the back wall is a bad place to be as well. Bass will build up along room boundaries and in corners, at these locations the bass can become "boomy" and "muddy" and should be avoided. The ideal location of the MLP is between the 1/5th and 1/3rd points of the room (between 3.5' and 5.5' from the back wall in your room)...as has been mentioned, the 1/2 point is to be avoided at all costs.

Depending on how much you want to spend...and how much your wife wants to keep the couch in the center of the room...this can be fixed with multiple subs.

How would 2 subs fix the issue? I'd think they would still not ever get to the giant null in the center of the room.

I am sitting 3 ft off my wall right now in my office chair and the bass is overwhelmingly amazing, but it could be a bit too much. I pulled the couch to 6ft from the back wall and I "felt" the mid bass in my chest vs hearing the enveloping deep bass when sitting in my chair. I'm honestly not sure which I prefer but at least there's the option to simply push the couch back if I really want to get into a movie lol. Ah... living room HT, gotta love it.

Legairre

· #11 · Oct 23, 2019 (Edited)

Majicpanda said:
I was able to get the sub next to the couch and I felt the bass but I can't unhear what I know can be possible at the back of the room.

Like Alan said. Bass is re-enforced and boomy near walls, so you'll always get more bass near a wall, but not better bass.

Alan P

· #12 · Oct 23, 2019

Majicpanda said:
How would 2 subs fix the issue? I'd think they would still not ever get to the giant null in the center of the room.

I am sitting 3 ft off my wall right now in my office chair and the bass is overwhelmingly amazing, but it could be a bit too much. I pulled the couch to 6ft from the back wall and I "felt" the mid bass in my chest vs hearing the enveloping deep bass when sitting in my chair. I'm honestly not sure which I prefer but at least there's the option to simply push the couch back if I really want to get into a movie lol. Ah... living room HT, gotta love it.

Maybe not just 2 subs...I did say "multiple".

Multiple subs (2,3,4, maybe more), placed properly can eliminate all nulls in a room. Dual subs, placed properly may eliminate your null. If you were able to measure your response with REW, you can place your single sub in multiple locations and combine 2 of the locations in REW to give you a very accurate predicted response.

Alan P

· #13 · Oct 23, 2019

Legairre said:
like Alan said. Bass is re-enforced and boomy near walls, so you'll always get more bass near a wall, but not better bass.

He's 3' off the wall when sitting in his desk chair...not far from the "ideal" 3.5', I don't doubt it sounds quite a bit better than the middle of the room. Moving any closer to the wall, and the boominess would start to set in.

Majicpanda

Discussion Starter · #14 · Oct 23, 2019

Alan P said:
He's 3' off the wall when sitting in his desk chair...not far from the "ideal" 3.5', I don't doubt it sounds quite a bit better than the middle of the room. Moving any closer to the wall, and the boominess would start to set in.

Will nearfield help at all? I tried moving the sub right next to my couch on the left but I would need a longer cable to try more positions. It sounded really, really bad. I do not want "good enough" bass from this sub... definitely maxed the budget to get it so I can't get more. I know the thing can deliver everything I want and more (Passengers was amazing also) but the LP is just impossible to get 3.5-5ft from any wall.

I didn't re-run Audyssey or set the sub distance or volume any differently, so that could have severely hindered the results I was hearing but I just had a bad feeling nearfield would not work regardless based on what I heard coming from it. We have vaulted ceiling so this space is really terrible.

Alan P

· #15 · Oct 23, 2019

Nearfield should definitely sound/feel better than far-field in your space. Only issue with a single sub nearfield is localization, but if you keep the crossover low enough (80hz and under) you should be fine.

Yeah, you need to re-run Audyssey whenever you re-position a sub or speaker.

Leeliemix

· #16 · Oct 23, 2019

Or for quick check at least turn off audyssey completly, that way only distance and volume is wrong not sound changing filters.

Reactions: 1

HsuKevin

· #17 · Oct 24, 2019

Just echoing what others have stated, being seated in the middle of the room do tend to be where large nulls frequently occur. I agree with the others in that nearfield may end up giving you a better/clearer mid-bass. Make sure you also adjust the distance correction on the receiver when you move it or re-run auto-calibration, otherwise you may run into issues with phase, and improper EQ. Your deeper bass may not be as smooth by placing it nearfield though, but for many, it's usually more preferable to have a smoother mid-bass than deep bass if you have to go one way or the other. The wall certainly provides you boundary gain and it does generally make the sub sound louder and more impressive, but depending on the structure of the wall, it can cause an otherwise even response to sound boomy, etc. Ultimately, it is up to your personal preference, and if you do prefer the bass at the wall, the only thing I can recommend is to move your seating position there.

Reactions: 1

macgallant

· #18 · Oct 25, 2019

Sometimes moving the couch forward/back 6 inches can make a HUGE difference.

My sitting area is in a huge null but i was able to push the couch back 6-8 inches and bring the sub forward about 1 foot and it made a MASSIVE difference.

Some days i notice the bass is lacking but thats usually because the couch moved a bit

so i just push it back.

Everything came together when I added a second subwoofer though. (2 more pending the spouse's approval LOL)

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