[Dave Harper]

What do folks think about dropping down to a e-shift 6050UB instead until the brightness on native 4k increase in the next 1-2 years?

I think if you listen to all the FUD and ignore the LK990 then you’re doing yourself a disservice. Unless of course you’re very sensitive to RBE.

 

[Javs]

This shouldn’t be an issue after taking some preliminary measurements with it on the other night. I’m sure this was also exaggerated by Javs’ meter’s inability to measure laser phosphor properly.

Wrong if that were true ALL modes would measure bad. But brilliant colour is definitely bad while I can get a great calibration (according to my meter) with it off.

If you don't agree please post the data to prove me wrong as I have asked you half a dozen times now.

Your subjective opinion is not acceptable in the face of my data. Post the data to counter it, or don't....

 

[Craig Peer]

What do folks think about dropping down to a e-shift 6050UB instead until the brightness on native 4k increase in the next 1-2 years?

Might not be a bad way to go. See if you can buy it from someplace that will let you return it, and then demo it in your theater.

 

[coderguy]

What do folks think about dropping down to a e-shift 6050UB instead until the brightness on native 4k increase in the next 1-2 years?

You could get an Epson 5040ub refurb, though it takes some patience and you have to setup a site monitor service to parse the page to let you know when in stock.
You have to be quick.

 

[Dave Harper]

New HT build: 180" 1.5 gain screen, which projector (nx5,nx7,695es)

Wrong if that were true ALL modes would measure bad. But brilliant colour is definitely bad while I can get a great calibration (according to my meter) with it off.

If you don't agree please post the data to prove me wrong as I have asked you half a dozen times now.

Your subjective opinion is not acceptable in the face of my data. Post the data to counter it, or don't....

This quote from me in the HT9060 vs LK990 thread is probably relevant here, and elsewhere where the FUD Factor is high:

With all due respect Javs (and Kris), and I mean that wholeheartedly. I just don’t understand the tech involved totally in what these RGBY laser phosphor projectors are doing! I can’t send you any real different numbers than you’ve already posted and that’s the main reasons why I haven’t a lot, other than when I’ve tamed some of the misunderstood issues.

I’ve tried to hint at this numerous times and it’s just glossed over. When I first got a UHZ65 I was absolutely dumbfounded and baffled at the calibration process and measurements. It drove me insane and I trashed the projector just as you guys are doing now with the LKs. It wasn’t until I spoke with the Lead Product Manager at Optoma (who consulted his engineers) and a lead engineer designing XPR DLPs at Vivitek that I got a better grasp on at least how to handle, coax, tweak, what to ignore and what to concentrate on and how to massage these type of DLPs, that I figured out how to get them to perform at their best potential.

I went in circles for many hours scratching my head as you guys did so I totally understand this. I though the UHZ65 was garbage, just look at the thread from back then!

I really think it’s just them not sharing details of how these are engineered to work and produce their image between XPR, RGBY laser Phosphor, Color Enhancer and Brilliant Color.

I remembered we had a discussion about 1.5 years ago regarding the LK970’s clone, the Acer 7860 so I looked it up and Darinp had brought up what is the most likely scenario and cause, being similar to RGBW OLED, here (then a great discussion ensued):

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2916072-acer-vl7860-laser-dlp-4k-uhd-projector-post55432506.html#post55432506

There have been other discussions regarding this that we had already been over but you guys seem to be late to the party so maybe weren’t privy to them, idk.

Here is another I stumbled on which could have relevance here too, from @ConnecTEDDD re: the OLEDs:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2962814-2018-lg-oled-calibration-user-settings-no-price-talk-24.html#post56201380

I REALLY just think it’s due to a strange and unique technology to get to the same end result “subjectively” (using a technology we don’t fully understand yet, but the engineers do!) when using XPR, RGBY laser phosphor and Brilliant Color for HDR. I recall SPECIFICALLY the Optoma Manager telling me I MUST use Brilliant Color for HDR and to ignore the whacky lumen measurements because they’ll never be right and if you force them it’ll make things worse based on how the technology works. I saw this first hand when I tried to go to extremes on the LK970, with the banding and solarization amongst other things. He said they all worked in conjunction to make it all be subjectively correct on screen. When I pressed them for details they wouldn’t share, so I just can’t tell you why or show you the data you’re looking for, because I get the same thing ON PAPER, but that’s not what I’m watching. I’m watching awesome HDR movies with awesome low APL and detail out the wazoo, not spreadsheets and calibration charts when it comes to these!

Get mad at me all you want, but all I want is for you to listen to what I’m saying and what I was told. That’s all I know and truth be told, the advice they gave me works wonderfully and apparently, based on what you’re reporting, yours (and mine with the UHZ65 initially) doesn’t. Sorry if that offends, but it is what it is.

I don’t really understand it all any more than you guys do yet, but I followed what they said and am more than happy with the results. People will see the truth soon enough when I am back in PA. Until then I will not argue with you anymore other than to say I do not agree with the assessments you and Kris report........at all!

I know you’ve seen it already, but maybe others haven’t.

 

[tddk]

You could get an Epson 5040ub refurb, though it takes some patience and you have to setup a site monitor service to parse the page to let you know when in stock.
You have to be quick.

I almost pulled the trigger on this but then decided not to as only hdmi 1.4. :/ So still eye balling the new model (5050) with the hdmi 2.0. At $3k retail, this is a good bang for buck from what I have read/seen with data posted on multiple review sites. This way, I can give native another 2 years to mature and then still sell it for $1kish and upgrade when i move to an AT cinema screen.

 

[mystigiandoll]

I don’t think everyone should be short changing @DavidHir’s suggestion of the new laser Epson light cannon too. I’d love to get hold of one to see what it can do.

Hey Dave, what model were you and David referring to? Thanks!

 

[coderguy]

I almost pulled the trigger on this but then decided not to as only hdmi 1.4. :/ So still eye balling the new model (5050) with the hdmi 2.0. At $3k retail, this is a good bang for buck from what I have read/seen with data posted on multiple review sites. This way, I can give native another 2 years to mature and then still sell it for $1kish and upgrade when i move to an AT cinema screen.

I would choose the Epson 5050 in your situation if you value black levels. It can do ok blacks.
LCD produces a bit of a rougher looking image than DLP, and especially than LCOS, but it's not that bad, and most people get used to it.

 

[Dave Harper]

Hey Dave, what model were you and David referring to? Thanks!

I don’t know off the top of my head. I recall just reading about it in passing, probably the same place or thread here that @DavidHir did. I would ask him, he may know specifically.

Or go to Epson’s website and search for a 4K laser LCD model, geared to medium to large business installations like Houses of Worship, Sports Bars, museums, etc. I think it’s pretty expensive though.

FWIW, If you saw the images, including low APL scenes, that I did last night with Life if Pi on the LK990, you wouldn’t hesitate for one second to buy one immediately. The only caveat being if you’re very RBE sensitive as Maestrosc is. I am not lying or saying this with any agenda whatsoever, no matter what the unbelievers think and say. It’s to be expected when they don’t understand.

 

[Ruined]

What do folks think about dropping down to a e-shift 6050UB instead until the brightness on native 4k increase in the next 1-2 years?

I don’t know off the top of my head. I recall just reading about it in passing, probably the same place or thread here that @DavidHir did. I would ask him, he may know specifically.

Or go to Epson’s website and search for a 4K laser LCD model, geared to medium to large business installations like Houses of Worship, Sports Bars, museums, etc. I think it’s pretty expensive though.

FWIW, If you saw the images, including low APL scenes, that I did last night with Life if Pi on the LK990, you wouldn’t hesitate for one second to buy one immediately. The only caveat being if you’re very RBE sensitive as Maestrosc is. I am not lying or saying this with any agenda whatsoever, no matter what the unbelievers think and say. It’s to be expected when they don’t understand.

Another option is HT9060 if rbe sensitive or if color gamut width/accuracy is a big concern

When it doesn't have the measurable lumens of the lk990, it does have the HK effect to boost perception of brightness and very wide accurate color right out of the box. Plus it will hang onto those ~1700 lumens for the long term unlike lamp projectors.

Getting a 6050UB compared to either the ht9060/LK990 will be a massive downgrade both in sharpness and brightness and no comparison for this size screen IMO.

 

[Maestrosc]

I don’t know off the top of my head. I recall just reading about it in passing, probably the same place or thread here that @DavidHir did. I would ask him, he may know specifically.

Or go to Epson’s website and search for a 4K laser LCD model, geared to medium to large business installations like Houses of Worship, Sports Bars, museums, etc. I think it’s pretty expensive though.

FWIW, If you saw the images, including low APL scenes, that I did last night with Life if Pi on the LK990, you wouldn’t hesitate for one second to buy one immediately. The only caveat being if you’re very RBE sensitive as Maestrosc is. I am not lying or saying this with any agenda whatsoever, no matter what the unbelievers think and say. It’s to be expected when they don’t understand.

Will chime in to say the RBE is the only reason I did end up sending the 990 back.

I brought my brother over to test it out one day, and without explaining RBE to him, asked him if anything was distracting or stood out as weird/unsettling. And he could ONLY see the RBE, after I explained where to look for it, how to see it, and the general effect it has. And even after that, he said it was only distracting when he was trying to force himself to see it, but definitely wasnt something that he was seeing a lot of or distracted by it. So it really varies per person.

The RBE for me was only on Chrome/metallics in HDR, or when the camera was panning across a light shining directly at the camera, with a dark background. But it was enough for me that I knew it would always be a distraction. Aside from that, I loved the 990 even in Normal mode. The Smart Eco dimming IMO, wasnt something I could handle though, as I found scenes in movies where the Smart Eco dimming struggled to decide on a brightness, and would switch brightness back and forth as the camera switched between two perspectives in the same scene, which was distracting to me.

The brightness/sharpness/saturation tho is why I ordered a 9060, and my rep spoke with the Engineers at BenQ and was assured the RBE in my case should be pretty much eliminated.

I loved the general look of the 990, and am hoping the 9060 will deliver a very similar image in terms of qualities. After seeing the super sharp image, I think I would prefer a super sharp image over a better contrast performance, just personally as this is a 100% preference thing.

 

[farsider3000]

The lk990 though is getting dinged pretty hard for color accuracy in the other threads. Most of the data I read in that thread highlights issues with that projector in terms of accuracy, which as primarily movies, is something I care about.

I plan on using madvr for tone mapping, shouldn't that help improve the HDR performance?

Not sure if this has been mentioned but you need to consider the fact that all of these projectors will need to run in high lamp mode so the fan noise will be quite loud. Will the projector be mounted in your theater or can you mount in a separate room so that you will not hear the fan noise? If you build your room with double wall construction and 5/8" sheetrock with green glue and a extremely well built door the room should be extremely quiet. Which means you will definitely hear the fan in high lamp mode. Not sure if this would bother you but I have to run my projector on low lamp for this reason.

 

[tddk]

Updated- I ended up getting a 5050ub for $2100 shipper/tax free, so went that route on the projector. Figure in a couple years once the true 4ks improve and get higher brightness, I will upgrade.

 

[Mike Garrett]

Something is not right. That is below dealer cost. Are you sure it was new and not a refurb?

 

[tddk]

Something is not right. That is below dealer cost. Are you sure it was new and not a refurb?

Was on sale for $2699 - 15% off - 10%. They had two coupons that stacked when I found them online, so online check out ftw Arrives Thursday. Its new.

 

[Balbolito]

Was on sale for $2699 - 15% off - 10%. They had two coupons that stacked when I found them online, so online check out ftw Arrives Thursday. Its new.

Congrats first of all on the new PJ. let me know how it works out for you as i have a 160 inch screen and was wondering if a 5050 would light it up or not. i had a 5040 before but that was on a 113 inch screen so no issues back then.

maybe a few screenshots would help everyone

Also could u share the link via PM where u bought it from? thank u!

 

[tddk]

Congrats first of all on the new PJ. let me know how it works out for you as i have a 160 inch screen and was wondering if a 5050 would light it up or not. i had a 5040 before but that was on a 113 inch screen so no issues back then.

maybe a few screenshots would help everyone

Also could u share the link via PM where u bought it from? thank u!

Will do, so planning to get it up and running this weekend coming up

 

[tddk]

Congrats first of all on the new PJ. let me know how it works out for you as i have a 160 inch screen and was wondering if a 5050 would light it up or not. i had a 5040 before but that was on a 113 inch screen so no issues back then.

maybe a few screenshots would help everyone

Also could u share the link via PM where u bought it from? thank u!

see attached for a quick proof of concept, it works out really well, I havent done any other work on the room (you can see the walls reflecting, sound system in temporary spots just to confirm positioning before cutting into walls for wiring). I will take better pictures later, the pj is plenty powerful to handle the screen. We watched the new godzilla last night to align on couch positioning and then do final pj mounting/speaker placement and that was a blast even without all the speakers set up and cords everywhere.

It cant get as black as my C8 oled, but it is very good. I am extremely impressed out of the box, can't wait for 100-150 hrs for calibration.

 

[Balbolito]

see attached for a quick proof of concept, it works out really well, I havent done any other work on the room (you can see the walls reflecting, sound system in temporary spots just to confirm positioning before cutting into walls for wiring). I will take better pictures later, the pj is plenty powerful to handle the screen. We watched the new godzilla last night to align on couch positioning and then do final pj mounting/speaker placement and that was a blast even without all the speakers set up and cords everywhere.

It cant get as black as my C8 oled, but it is very good. I am extremely impressed out of the box, can't wait for 100-150 hrs for calibration.

Good to know! i might purchase it next month, still working on my room as i am not done yet.

How far is the PJ from the screen? and where is it mounted?

Mine is going to be 16.5ft away from the screen and will be ceiling mounted.

Thanks

 

[tddk]

Good to know! i might purchase it next month, still working on my room as i am not done yet.

How far is the PJ from the screen? and where is it mounted?

Mine is going to be 16.5ft away from the screen and will be ceiling mounted.

Thanks

right now its at about 7-8ft high on a cabinet we brought into the room just to get a feel.

PJ is about 20' from screen, seating right now is at about 16-17', we are currently moving it forward to see if that works for us a little better. Once seating is in a good spot, ill do the math to figure out the angle the pj needs to be at for optimal and then build a shelf on the wall for it. I can't do ceiling mount (12' ceilings) so that is why I am sitting with a wall mount solution currently.