[Ronald K]

A number of months ago I decided to completely remodel my HT from both a room layout point of view as well as most of it's audio and video components.


The room itself is about ready to be dry walled. It is 20' by 40'. The TV and front left/right/center speakers and left and right subs will be centered on a 40' wall with about a 15' spread between the front left and right speakers. A 73" mits wide screen will be in the middle. All components will be housed in cabinetry.


On the opposite 40' wall there will be two rear speakers centered with the TV with a 15' spread between them. A horseshoe sectional sofa will be located so the center of its back will be 4' in front of the rear speakers. Left and right side speakers will be located on the side walls 4' in front of the back speakers (in line with the primary seating area).


A third sub will be below one of the side speakers for LFE.


The primary components will consist of:


Power conditioning - 2 eqi=tech power balancers with Richard Gray units.


Pre amp - Lexicon MC-12 balanced


Amps - Sunfire Stereo Amp. signature (Front left and Right)

Sunfire Cinema Grand signature (Center, back L/R and side L/R)


Speakers - Revel - F30 (front l/r), C30 (center), S30 (back l/r and side l/r) and B15 subs (front l/r) and one NHT Sub 2 for LFE.


TV - Mits 73909 with DTC-100


Other - Crystal Image processor, PVR, VCR, etc.


I'm about ready to pull the trigger on most of the components.


Any comments or suggestions before I do would be appreciated.


Thanks


Ron

 

[Selden Ball]

Ron,


You're msking most of us very envious.


I'd suggest moving the LFE subwoofer to the front of the room. The LFE channel includes frequencies up to 120Hz or more, which are localizable.


Having multiple subwoofers will set up standing waves and interference patterns because low frequencies have wavelengths comparable to the room dimensions. You should consider co-locating them instead of having them separated.


Considering how much you'll be spending on the audio hardware,you should consder spending some on some professional audio setup help, or investing in some of the equipment needed to optimize speaker and room acoustics (e.g. realtime spectrum analyzer, subwoofer parametric equalizers, etc)


The Web page http://www.gold-line.com/hometh1.htm

seems to have some useful guidlines.


I hope this helps a little.

 

[Ronald K]

Seldon


Thank you for your advice.


The link to gold-line was very helpful and I will be attempting to optimize the sound system myself with the appropriate gear.


Although it would be easier and probably cheaper to hire a professional to do this (and likely with much better initial results), its part of the hobby that I want to learn how to do myself and as time goes on, hopefully get good at.


I haven't read about anyone attempting to use three subwoofers in a set up as of yet. The MC-12 accomadates a left and right along with an LFE. Home Theater Magazine had a set up with the MC-12 and two B-15s but they had one sub in the front and one in the rear but not a third. They also described the software that comes with the B-15s as being relatively easy to use to optimize the subs for both home theater use as well as for music.


At this point I probably just don't know what I'm getting myself into and I really do appreciate any advice.


Thanks again.


Ron

 

[sdurani]

Quote:

The TV and front left/right/center speakers and left and right subs will be centered on a 40' wall with about a 15' spread between the front left and right speakers. A 73" mits wide screen will be in the middle.

Ron, any chance you could have your set-up off centre? The middle of the room is probably the worst place to try to get smooth bass response; peaks and valleys are at their most severe there.


Sanjay

 

[Ronald K]

Sanjay


I didn't fully explain the room configuration because it is so unusual.


In the 20 by 40 room (its really 25'wide by 40' on one side and 55' on the other with the Theater and speaker cabinetry protruding out 5'), I do not think that there is a 90 degree angle any where. Its hard to describe. At one end (40' length), a bar goes off of the back wall at a 45 degree angle into two different large rooms which will add an additional 50' to the length of the Home Theater room. The combined area is open and in the shape of a flat V with a total area approching 5000 sq. ft. with 10' to 15' ceiling heights.


There are many ceiling features in the combined area, including four large coved ceilings. I do not think that anyone can predict what the over all accoustics will be like in the theater area, but I think that it is either going to be really-really good or really bad.


I'm probably way over my head in attempting to do this myself. Over the past few years I have gained a pretty good knowledge of all of the video aspects but I'm the first to admit that I'm weak in the sound and power conditioning part.


I'm also hoping that along the way I can learn from great guys like yourself and Selden. No matter what, I think it will be fun.


Thanks


Ron

 

[Selden Ball]

Ron,


Thanks for the kind words, I think


Because of the irregular room shape, I suspect you'll experience many fewer problems with low frequency reflections and cancellations than most of us.


Have fun!

 

[WScott]

I am very envious of the amount of space you have.


I would look a better amplifiers to match your MC-12. I have a Cinepro 3K6 Gold. I highly reccomend this brand. (There is one on Audiogon for 5100, it lists for 7500). Bryston also has a good reputation.


Not that the Sunfires are bad, I don't think they are in the same league as the MC-12 IMHO.


Also is the DTC-100 the HD STB because you are a sports freak? Direct TV as the edge for that. HDNet etc. For HD movies Dish network still has the edge. With the merger, I would buy a used unit and wait and see what happens. I would not place a large investment there. (check out HD forums)


However, I would NOT sit on the sidelines either since HDTV is amazing and why not enjoy it while the rest sorts itself out.

 

[Jonmx]

For that large of a room, it seems like a Projector may be a nice addition. Being able to control the lighting may be an issue though. But for watching DVDs or HDTV, having it on a 120" screen is awesome. Regualar TV will look better on the Mits.

 

[Ronald K]

Jonmx:


Light is definately a concern. In one of my first designs, I tried to incorporate a room behind a screen to locate a projector but the depth that it needed wasn't practical for the overall layout.


Scott:


I went to Cinepro's web site and it looks like they make a great amp. The only reason I was looking at Sunfire Amps was the many forum members comments that they do not run hot (ie., they pretty much only use the power that the system needs at any given moment).


It is also interesting that they make their own power conditioning and balancing devices.


I will be calling them today and discussing my system. Thanks for your comments.


I already have a Mits 73903, the DTC-100 and the Crystal Image. Although I have been planning on upgrading to the Mits 73909, their web site no longer has any 73" models listed. I believe the 909 series was to have a built in DirectTV Sat and OTA tuner, maybe the merger caused them to rethink their plans. If so, I may have to keep the 903 in my system.


Thanks again.


Ron

 

[AirCeej]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronald K Seldon Thank you for your advice. I haven't read about anyone attempting to use three subwoofers in a set up as of yet.

Check out Russ Herschelmann's Home Theater Architect series in SGHT. In one of his installments, he and some of his Stereophile colleges conduct a series of tests in on of Kenwood's sound rooms. He ended-up using 3 subwoofers in 3 different locations to balance-out standing wave problems and provide the most even distribution in that particular room. However, he is quick to point out that this configuration works in rectangular rooms therefore; this may not work in your particular room.

 

[AirCeej]

Rest assured that not only are the Sunfire's in the same league as your MC-12, they are of course an obvious and excellent choice! Whether between my SF Line I or AVM20 and my Martin Logans, the Sunfire has acquitted itself has a superb performer besting many of the more "salon" names in the contest. To that end, when Richard Green reviewed the stereo version in the Absolute Sound (a few years back), he found it one of the best on the planet - period. On top of that, in every system I've heard a Sunfire amp. (with voltage outputs), it has made me question the higher prices of competing companies especially when their offerings don't beat Sunfire (selling for far less). And Sunfire has got to be pretty good for Gayle Sanders to use one to power his surrounds in his personal system.


However, though their amps are a class-leading benchmark for stereo or multi-channel systems, the proof comes through the final pudding - in your system/room with your ears. If you can find a better match for your equipment/room/tastes/wallet, then that is just one of the wonderful things about this hobby - discovery!

 

[Paulo]

I really don't know if I've arrived late to reply to this thread, but I'd say that the processor that you're using requires a better amplifier.


I know well the Sunfire, they're good, but if you're looking for ampliers that doesn't run hot all the time, you can go to the FET based amplifiers like Theta Dreadnaught. They're not as hot as Krell A Class amps.


Or there are amplifiers that uses the Plateau Bias system. They're A Class amps, but they change their bias operating point depending on the output demand. The newest Krell amps have this capability.


I have an integrated amp called Karan acoustics, and it uses the sliding bias system. It is a "warm amplifier" for low levels and it sounds very well...



Best regards,



Paulo

 

[Philip Brandes]

Hi Ron,


Congratulations on picking some very fine equipment for your home theater. You've obviously done some homework in advance.


Given the size of your space, one of the biggest challenges you're facing is achieving the requisite SPLs. You've made an excellent choice in the Revel speakers, which (in addition to sounding good) are among the very best in dynamic excursion, so they canplay louder without distortion.


To take full advantage of that, however, you need to drive those speakers with as much power as you can. For this purpose, the Sunfire Signatures are an ideal choice--they simply offer a lot more power than anything anywhere near their price. When it comes to sonic quality, differences between decently-designed solid state amps are smaller than between any other audio components. In your system, the power requirements are the far more significant consideration.


Cheers,

Philip Brandes

 

[Paulo]

Now I'm reconsidering my answer. The choice of an amp depends also on a personal taste.


I've heard lots of amplifiers (McCormack, Classe, Jeff Rowland, Sunfire, Rotel, Mark Levinson, Tag...) and each one tries its approach to a "natural sound" with their own "sound signature". If you really likes Sunfire, just go for it...



Paulo

 

[sdurani]

Donald,


After reading your equipment list and that description of your home, I have one question for you: will you adopt me? ;-)


Seriously though, I'll cast another vote for those Sunfires; they're really good amps. As for being in over your head, I don't think so. Plus, think of the fun you'll have. Besides, your choice in gear shows that you know what you're doing.


Also, is it possible to move the couch any more foward? This will give you a little more distance between the rear wall (more so the rear speakers) and the listeners' heads. As always, the side speakers should be at 90 degrees to the sweet spot (i.e., directly to your sides). The rears should be around the 150 degree mark (zero degrees being directly in front of the listener). BTW, good choice on those Revel speakers; very nice sounding. And excellent choice on the processor (I own the unbalanced version).


Best,

Sanjay

 

[Ronald K]

Thanks to all for your comments.


The closest place to audition any of the audio components is about 75 miles away. There is no store that is a dealer in any two of the brands. I can listen to the Revel speakers but not with the Lexicon or Sunfires or any other component that may improve the quality of the sound.


I don't have the ability to listen to what the combination might sound like even in a store let alone my home. Your advice really does mean alot.


This weekend I will be installing the wiring for the rear and side speakers. I'm planning on using 12 AWG for a 50' run (longest). Also the Revel S30s have a "remote" switch that allow the speakers to be controlled by a 6 to 12 Vdc wire for either dipole or monopole operation, which I would like to run at the same time while its still easy. Am I correct to assume that the "Trigger" outputs on the MC-12 are designed to do this? If so would anyone know the best type of wire to use (max 50' run)? I've downloaded the manuals but I can't determine what kind of connection is on the back of the MC-12. Can one trigger handle more than one lead? Will I need any special plugs?


Thanks again.


Ron