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Discussion Starter #1
As the title says, my wife and I are building a dedicated HT in our new construction house.

Details:
It is located in the basement, and all four walls are 8" concrete.
The framed dimensions are 21'L x 15'W x 9.5'H, so a bit over 2900 cubic ft.
Worth mentioning is that the length is from the AT wall to the back wall, so there is space behind the AT wall. Unfortunately, on the left side, that space is 3' deep, but on the right side it is only 1' deep. I can post a pic if needed...
The layout will be a 7.2.4 Atmos with two rows of 3 seats and the back row will be on a riser.
Viewing material will be 50% Concert footage, 40% Action movies & 10% Music.

Goals:
A realistic soundstage.
Good center channel clarity for dialog.
Midrange impact. This doesn't have to "slam" you in the chest, but a noticeable "nudge" would be nice :cool:
Good LF response... we definitely want to feel the vibrations!
Loud. We'd like it to get loud but stay composed.

Questions & Speaker Considerations:
Given the above information, I have a couple of ideas, but am open to suggestions.
Subs - I'm looking at building two 18" cabinets to sit behind the AT. Would love to still have the SI HT18's, but... Can't seem to get a handle on the availability of the UM18's, so I'm open to alternatives that would fit in a Marty or VBSS type enclosure.
LCR - On paper, the DIYSG HTM-12's sound like a great speaker, especially their depth given the lack of depth behind the right side of the AT wall. The F15's also seem to be great speakers, and with some wall adjustment I could probably make them fit.
Surrounds - My initial thought was that if I chose HTM-12's to just use them for surrounds as well, but I'm definitely open to suggestions from those with experience.
Atmos - No clue here. I have ~ 1ft of depth in the ceiling... recommendations welcome!

Thanks to anyone who responds!
 

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For Atmos, most people here would suggest the Volt 10LX’s using the Atmos flat pack and cross-over adjustment. You can’t go wrong with either of your choices for LCR.


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Discussion Starter #3
Anyone have recommendations for 18" subs? I have room behind the AT wall for pretty big enclosures...
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks for the replies monty & Craig! I had not considered either of those speakers, but had looked at the Dayton Ultimaxs, which I noticed are both out of stock (again) :mad:


I'm probably in over my head on designing an enclosure, which is why the UM is appealing since there are flat packs available for it. I need to gain more understanding of the T/S parameters...

@monty6400 I saw you had a build thread using two Faital Pro 18HP1030's... how did that turn out? Is there a reason you aren't recommending those subs?
 

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Thanks for the replies monty & Craig! I had not considered either of those speakers, but had looked at the Dayton Ultimaxs, which I noticed are both out of stock (again) :mad:


I'm probably in over my head on designing an enclosure, which is why the UM is appealing since there are flat packs available for it. I need to gain more understanding of the T/S parameters...

@monty6400 I saw you had a build thread using two Faital Pro 18HP1030's... how did that turn out? Is there a reason you aren't recommending those subs?
The subs turned out great and the drivers are really nice, however soon I'm going to be putting them in much smaller 430l vs 230l VBSS style sub boxes as I need one to be at the back of the room and the current cabs won't fit, also I'm not entirely bothered about giving up some sub 20hz. It doesn't do a lot for me really I much prefer midbass slam. Your room is almost 3 times bigger than mine and I've found the limits of these drivers in my room. With 110db at 20hz for one imo you'd need quite a few (more than 4) to give good output in your room, although I suppose it's all down to listening levels, I almost always listen at reference and in 900 cuft these do the job nicely and cheaply and can be run on an inuke 3000 or 6000 relatively easily.

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BTW I'm more than happy to model drivers for you to see which is best. From memory in the same size boxes the B&C equals the Dayton um18 down low but gives quite a bit more output in the mid bass region!

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
The subs turned out great and the drivers are really nice, however soon I'm going to be putting them in much smaller 430l vs 230l VBSS style sub boxes as I need one to be at the back of the room and the current cabs won't fit, also I'm not entirely bothered about giving up some sub 20hz. It doesn't do a lot for me really I much prefer midbass slam. Your room is almost 3 times bigger than mine and I've found the limits of these drivers in my room. With 110db at 20hz for one imo you'd need quite a few (more than 4) to give good output in your room, although I suppose it's all down to listening levels, I almost always listen at reference and in 900 cuft these do the job nicely and cheaply and can be run on an inuke 3000 or 6000 relatively easily.

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Thank you for the informative response. How much do you think you'll be giving up by reducing the enclosure size? The number of subs I'd need for my room size is something I was unclear of... so even though the room is surrounded by concrete on all sides, the volume is still great enough that I'd need at least 4 subs? I had originally planned on 2 full Marty sized enclosures, but if I need to increase the number I use, I'll likely have to reduce the enclosure size, primarily due to that bump out on the right side. I listen at fairly loud levels and want good impact... I love to feel the rumble around the 35Hz vicinity, but also enjoy mid bass impact. Given this, should I switch from HTM-12's as my LCR to Fusion-12 Tempests which seem to be noted for their mid bass impact?

BTW I'm more than happy to model drivers for you to see which is best. From memory in the same size boxes the B&C equals the Dayton um18 down low but gives quite a bit more output in the mid bass region!

Thank you so much for the generous offer! I'm going to try to model some myself so I can gain some understanding, but will surely have questions :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Many of the Parts Express subs have boxes available for them at Parts Express. You can get a kit with the sub and box..... some assembly required. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-18-reference-series-ho-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7094
Hi mtucker! I've been looking at those kits and am not afraid of the assembly process... From the car audio world, I've built several sealed enclosures, but most of what I see for HT are ported and I don't think PE carries ported kits?
 

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Thank you for the informative response. How much do you think you'll be giving up by reducing the enclosure size? The number of subs I'd need for my room size is something I was unclear of... so even though the room is surrounded by concrete on all sides, the volume is still great enough that I'd need at least 4 subs? I had originally planned on 2 full Marty sized enclosures, but if I need to increase the number I use, I'll likely have to reduce the enclosure size, primarily due to that bump out on the right side. I listen at fairly loud levels and want good impact... I love to feel the rumble around the 35Hz vicinity, but also enjoy mid bass impact.




Thank you so much for the generous offer! I'm going to try to model some myself so I can gain some understanding, but will surely have questions :rolleyes:
By reducing the enclosure volume I loose around 5db below 20hz but gain about 4db above 25hz which for me is where I most care about. My small room helps the low end with tons of room gain also. I think I was a bit unclear about number of subs. I was basically saying that with my subs you'd probably need more than or around 4 to get the output of 2 larger subs. If you went with 2 LLT cabs with HST 18s you'd need about 6 of my cabs to make up the same output. For rumble around 35hz and mid bass impact I'd be seriously considering pro drivers or a combination of pro drivers and high excursion drivers. If I had your room I'd be going for eng style subs (b&C 21s in multiples in large low tuned boxes) for me these provide monstrous output in the mid bass area and still tons down low, but when I've modelled them they do require large cabs to keep the port velocity down as they do seem to shift a lot of air!

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My pick for the front would be the TitanXL`s as mains and a couple of Si IB 24`s for subs tuned around 16HZ and the Volt 10`s as mentioned for surrounds/Atmos.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
My pick for the front would be the TitanXL`s as mains and a couple of Si IB 24`s for subs tuned around 16HZ and the Volt 10`s as mentioned for surrounds/Atmos.
Would the Titan recommendation be based on the size of the room?

Regarding the SI's, I was planning on using inuke amps which I understand struggle with the SI's, which leads me to another question...

Rather that using 6 18" enclosures, what about running 3 taller divided enclosures with 2 15's in each... more surface area and 15's are likely easier to come by than 18's?
 

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Size of the room and your intended use requirements.........

If all things are equal it is approx. 2 , 15`s to equal 1 ,18..........hence my recommendation for the IB 24 inchers, plus room size. I do not see why a Inuke would have a problem with the IB 24`s, the top line 24`s maybe. It would be best to call Nick at Stereo Integrity and ask him his thoughts about using the IB 24`s compared to other drivers for your situation so you can get a good idea of what to expect performance wise.


Personally I would not use the 15`s in that room, but I am far from a pro.


I have 2, 18`s in a 12x12 room and will be going to 24`s as soon as possible and the 2, 18`s in the same room.


You can also contact DIYSG and ask them what would match up well with the titans for your intended use as far as sub sizes.


Both DIYSG and Stereo Integrity have active forum members here and they are into this as well, so they are not just people looking to push products, they have a good idea what works and can offer good advice.
 

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A while ago I modelled 2 B&C 21s vs 1 SI 24 and here are the results, they are roughly around the same price ($300 ish less for the two B&Cs). The SI cab I moddelled was 830l tuned to 16hz so a really huge box, the dual B&Cs where in 590l tuned to 16hz so not quite as big but still large. If this is still too big you could go dual 18s in one tall cab. For your sized rooms I'd forget about 15's TBH. FWIW to take the 24 to XMAX needed 4700w modelled whereas the dual B&Cs need 2800w. You give up 4dbs at 20hz with the B&Cs but the output is still monstrous and cheaper than the SI, and takes less power to get there, could use an Inuke for the B&Cs however a larger amp would most likely needed to be used for the SI (sanway clone, speakerpower etc)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Size of the room and your intended use requirements.........

If all things are equal it is approx. 2 , 15`s to equal 1 ,18..........hence my recommendation for the IB 24 inchers, plus room size. I do not see why a Inuke would have a problem with the IB 24`s, the top line 24`s maybe. It would be best to call Nick at Stereo Integrity and ask him his thoughts about using the IB 24`s compared to other drivers for your situation so you can get a good idea of what to expect performance wise.


Personally I would not use the 15`s in that room, but I am far from a pro.


I have 2, 18`s in a 12x12 room and will be going to 24`s as soon as possible and the 2, 18`s in the same room.


You can also contact DIYSG and ask them what would match up well with the titans for your intended use as far as sub sizes.


Both DIYSG and Stereo Integrity have active forum members here and they are into this as well, so they are not just people looking to push products, they have a good idea what works and can offer good advice.
Couple of questions...
Is there some sort of formula for determining how much speaker surface area is needed for a given volume of space?
Barring that, how many 24's would I need for 2900 cu ft?

I met Nick a couple of months back at a car audio event. He demoed his HST-12 mkII sub which was extremely impressive! I also run a couple of his TM65 v1 speakers in my own car, so I'm definitely not opposed to using SI gear :D

 

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Couple of questions...
Is there some sort of formula for determining how much speaker surface area is needed for a given volume of space?
Barring that, how many 24's would I need for 2900 cu ft?

I met Nick a couple of months back at a car audio event. He demoed his HST-12 mkII sub which was extremely impressive! I also run a couple of his TM65 v1 speakers in my own car, so I'm definitely not opposed to using SI gear :D

The SI IB-24 is $700, but is designed for "Our IB 24 is a powerful solution for Infinite Baffle setups". It is a great big woofer and has been reported to work very well for infinite baffle setups.

The SI 24s that start to be feasible in somewhat smaller sealed or ported boxes are much more expensive, but go used to go on sale from time to time. Have not heard that lately though. List price of the decent "HS-24 MKII 24″ SUBWOOFER is $1,275.99 from their website. These take up a good bit of room in either alignment though.

There are 21s and more 18s that would do great in this size space in 2 or 4 configuration. With 2 they could be powered by less and be smaller in both ported and sealed. 2 powerful sealed 21's would work very well. 2 or 4 powerful and ported 18's would be over the top.

If you have the space you could start with 2 and add 2 more later, but if they if they are of good quality they would likely suffice.
 
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