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aka jfinnie
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Does anyone know why the auto aspect feature only works on some films? I can't seem to find a patter but many of my 2.35:1 movies aren't recognized by the feature.
From discussions with Lumagen it seems that some sources / content have "noisy" or "raised" bars, and perhaps the thresholds currently used by the algorithm for bar detection is lower than the level of the bars from some content / sources. I believe the bars presence has to be detected continuously for a certain amount of time before it locks in.

It seems perhaps a relaxing of the threshold might help, but if it were that simple I guess it would be done already...!

AppleTV4k Netflix is terrible for this, though it has improved a bit in the most recent release.

I hope it improves further over the coming releases. I have the auto aspect detected ratios hooked up via a Raspberry Pi to my electric masks and it does irk me when it decides to jump out of 2.35:1 mode for no reason you can actually see on screen. Obviously the Radiance saw something it didn't like (the cases tend to be quite repeatable) - but it wasn't anything obvious so it is like there is a knife-edge the aspect decision is balancing on at the mo.

If you have specific examples please send them to Lumagen. They have been engaged with the Auto Aspect functionality recently and the more concrete examples they can have of content that trips it up the better it can get. :)
 

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No, it is not. Switching can take a couple of seconds, more if the bars aren't very black.


What is your interest in this? Do you:
1) have a 16:9 screen with top and bottom masking you want to drive?,
2) want to zoom into the 2.35:1 sections to fill a 16:9 screen, or
3) want to zoom out of the 16:9 sections to fit within a 2.35:1 screen?

2) & 3) would be abominations in my mind as you'd be massively changing the framing intent of the movie. 1) I have sympathy with (I have top / bottom electric masks) but the mask system noise and lag ends up being more of a distraction than benefit - . You could only really achieve it with a preprogrammed set of movements which got the masks to the right place at the right time.
Ok, thanks. (interest would be to use the Lumagen with an anamorphic lens)
 

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aka jfinnie
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Ok, thanks. (interest would be to use the Lumagen with an anamorphic lens)
OK, so that is a variant of 3), and it is (with respect) completely nutso for the AR changing movies... :)
Think about it. The whole point of those IMAX scenes is to give more impact for those sections of the movie. If you're using an anamorphic lens (with a 2.35 screen?) then switching aspect at the IMAX scenes would make those scenes smaller! :) . So you'd reduce their impact...

For AR changing movies on a 'scope screen the only option than makes sense is to crop the top and bottom of the IMAX sections off. Many theatres would present these movies this way anyway so you're unlikely to lose much, and it would certainly be a more faithful reproduction than trying to use auto aspect for those scenes.
 

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then switching aspect at the IMAX scenes would make those scenes smaller! :) . So you'd reduce their impact...
I must contradict you here, when using the auto detect function on a cinemascope screen you would want to use the NLS feature for 16:9 content (it is somewhere int the auto detect setings). Then you ain´t get cut off heads and the scenes get bigger (just like IMAX).
 

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aka jfinnie
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I must contradict you here, when using the auto detect function on a cinemascope screen you would want to use the NLS feature for 16:9 content (it is somewhere int the auto detect setings). Then you ain´t get cut off heads and the scenes get bigger (just like IMAX).
Horses for courses. The geometry distortion that NLS introduces makes me want to hurl every time I've tried it... Reminds me of the old "smart" aspect stuff that 16:9 TVs could do with 4:3 screen.
But it's been there for ever so I guess some folk like it...

In any case, the detection isn't fast enough to not be distracting in that situation. When the 16:9 scenes end you will have bars visible for a little while before it detects the aspect and switches back to 2.35:1.

For my mind the only two setups that make real sense from the point of view of giving you a seamless presentation are either to watch them on a large unmasked 16:9 screen (preferably through a PJ with high native contrast) or to crop them onto a 2.35:1 screen. I don't think anything else really works for these movies.
 

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True, it isn´t fast enough, yet. But the NLS feature itself is absolutely awesome for cinemascope and the no.1 reason that I bought the Radiance in the first place. I wished they would also implement the horizontal keystone feature to avoid the geometry distortion. My point was solely that this way the IMAX scenes won´t get smaller. Right now the auto aspect feature is useless for me.
 

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aka jfinnie
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True, it isn´t fast enough, yet. But the NLS feature itself is absolutely awesome for cinemascope and the no.1 reason that I bought the Radiance in the first place. I wished they would also implement the horizontal keystone feature to avoid the geometry distortion. My point was solely that this way the IMAX scenes won´t get smaller. Right now the auto aspect feature is useless for me.
How so? Surely you watch more stuff than just the handful of movies that exist that have changing aspect? If you like NLS then surely the auto aspect function will work well for you for much content at the moment (minus some of the niggles with detection on certain titles / sources?). The slight delay in switching aspects isn't a big issue, it should usually detect before the movie much gets going. If you've got examples of movies that should work but don't then get them to Lumagen support so they can fix the algorithms to deal better with them.

The aspect ratio changing movies are a cinematic oddity and I don't think this feature was ever designed to operate on them. There are other issues there - the aspect switches in the Lumagen aren't completely seamless I think, and if you have serial port notifications turned on you'll also notice a stutter in the image.

Can you explain a bit more about what you mean in terms of horizontal keystone? I don't get what that has to do with the geometry distortion from NLS. Is this some problem with your A-lens setup (that the lens and PJ isn't dead centre to the screen?). Or is it related to NLS? The NLS distortion is different and is intrinsic in what you are doing with NLS (ie stretching some of the image more than other bits). Horizontal keystone won't help with that distortion.
 

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I prefer setting up things manually. Hence I watch the entire movie with NLS (16:9 and switching content). I will give the auto aspect feature another shot, maybe it´s faster than it used it to be...

By horizontal keystone correction I meant to adjust the pincushion effect (it is slight and not visible unless you watch sports and have some sort of info bar on the screen).
 

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aka jfinnie
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I prefer setting up things manually. Hence I watch the entire movie with NLS (16:9 and switching content). I will give the auto aspect feature another shot, maybe it´s faster than it used it to be...

By horizontal keystone correction I meant to adjust the pincushion effect (it is slight and not visible unless you watch sports and have some sort of info bar on the screen).
I really don't understand now (!)... So you watch aspect switching movies on the 2.35:1 screen through the A lens with NLS enabled? How does that work? You must have some projected black bars on the screen then during the 'scope sections of the movie?

I don't think you mean horizontal keystone in that case. Horizontal keystone is to correct trapezoid distortion from projecting off centre. Unless your pincushion is very different to how I imagine it what you are really asking is for some kind of specific pincushion correction to counteract the lens pincushion effect. It's not keystone.
 

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I don't think you mean horizontal keystone in that case. Horizontal keystone is to correct trapezoid distortion from projecting off centre. Unless your pincushion is very different to how I imagine it what you are really asking is for some kind of specific pincushion correction to counteract the lens pincushion effect. It's not keystone.
Then you might call it vertical keystone correction. As I said, to adjust the pincushion effect, especially in the corners.
 

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I really don't understand now (!)... So you watch aspect switching movies on the 2.35:1 screen through the A lens with NLS enabled? How does that work? You must have some projected black bars on the screen then during the 'scope sections of the movie?
I don´t recall any black bars with NLS but I haven´t watched a switching movie in a long time.
 

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aka jfinnie
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Then you might call it vertical keystone correction. As I said, to adjust the pincushion effect, especially in the corners.
No, it's not that either! :) It is something completely different to keystone.
Keystone (horizontal or vertical) is just for correcting keystone distortion. These two shapes (image borrowed from projectorpeople.com).


Neither horizontal nor vertical keystone correction will help with pincushion, it is something different.
 

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No, it's not that either! :) It is something completely different to keystone.
Keystone (horizontal or vertical) is just for correcting keystone distortion. These two shapes (image borrowed from projectorpeople.com).


Neither horizontal nor vertical keystone correction will help with pincushion, it is something different.
Thanks for clarification. Then let´s call it pincushion correction for now.. :)
 

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I thought this would be of interest to Lumagen owners.

From
NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-d...ors-anticipation-thread-399.html#post57301166
The problem I have with that post is it generalizes way too much. It really feels like most people just want an HDR image that looks bright all the time, which defeats the purpose of HDR. So by that ration I almost feel like those people should just really stick to standard Blu-ray and avoid the issue completely. Sure you lose a little something, but BD still looks fantastic on a well calibrated screen.

This is the same issue we see with music all the time. The purists want high resolution audio with high dynamic range. The problem is, that only works out well in a really well controlled enviroment with almost no noise floor. As soon as you try to listen in a more realistic everyday setting, the quiet parts are way too quiet and the loud parts scare the crap out of you because you turned it up so loud to hear the quiet stuff!

So people want tone maps that just normalize the entire image into something bright while sacrificing the HIGH DYNAMIC RANGE to get it. They are happy with the movies that actually don't have much dynamic range, because they are easy to project and watch while the movies that are actually dynamic are "bad mastering" or "poor presentations". The true problem is our display device (projectors) don't have nearly enough headroom (light starved) and don't have enough native contrast to make these titles look good. Flat panels have these things but most people use them in their family rooms and not our bat caves so they complain about the dim image because their noise floor (room lights/ambient light) is so high, just like high dynamic range music in a car.

I love what HDR brings to the table, but I really feel like it wasn't well thought out. It is spectacular in a very specific usage case (very bright, high dynamic range display in a perfect enviroment) but creates usage issues in just about every practical application to which they delivered nearly no solutions for.
 

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Paging John Salter! Your reply-to email address is invalid!

This is a complete shot in the dark, but if you're the John Salter that has been emailing me at [email protected] with Radiance Pro questions you're going to have to fix your Outlook email settings for me to be able to reply to you. Right now your reply-to email address is set up as something invalid and my replies are simply bouncing. See here for your issue and how to resolve:

https://support.office.com/en-us/ar...-windows-90ed7938-7f21-4cb5-a69d-a3b79ea4eafd

Kal
 

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HDR10+ in Oppo Latest Public Beta Test Release

FYI for Oppo-philes interested in HDR

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-...udp-203-owner-s-thread-1150.html#post57338384
New public beta firmware with HDR10+ and HDMI IN BYPASS to allow external Dolby Vision signal passthrough.

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/UDP203-firmware-64-1221B.aspx
Release date: December 28, 2018.
Category: Latest Public Beta Test Release


Main Version: UDP20X-64-1221B
Loader Version: TF0035
MCU Version: MCU203-01-1118, MCU205-01-1220

Release Notes:
This release is for the OPPO UDP-20x 4K UHD Blu-ray Disc Player.
Comparing to the current Official release version UDP20X-60-0625, the major changes included in this version are:
Added the HDR10+ support. A HDR10+ enabled TV is required to view content in HDR10+.
Added the "HDMI IN BYPASS" mode for Dolby Vision passthrough via HDMI In.
General fixes and disc compatibility improvements based on recent and upcoming UHD Blu-ray releases as well as user-submitted samples.


Firmware Upgrade Instructions:
Note: Since this is a public beta test version, it cannot be installed using the "Via Network" upgrade method. Please choose the "Via USB" or "Via Disc" method instead. Alternatively, you can wait for this beta test version to be qualified as an official release version, and then perform an update to the latest official release via the Internet.
 

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FYI for Oppo-philes interested in HDR

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-...udp-203-owner-s-thread-1150.html#post57338384
New public beta firmware with HDR10+ and HDMI IN BYPASS to allow external Dolby Vision signal passthrough.

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/UDP203-firmware-64-1221B.aspx
Release date: December 28, 2018.
Category: Latest Public Beta Test Release


Main Version: UDP20X-64-1221B
Loader Version: TF0035
MCU Version: MCU203-01-1118, MCU205-01-1220

Release Notes:
This release is for the OPPO UDP-20x 4K UHD Blu-ray Disc Player.
Comparing to the current Official release version UDP20X-60-0625, the major changes included in this version are:
Added the HDR10+ support. A HDR10+ enabled TV is required to view content in HDR10+.
Added the "HDMI IN BYPASS" mode for Dolby Vision passthrough via HDMI In.
General fixes and disc compatibility improvements based on recent and upcoming UHD Blu-ray releases as well as user-submitted samples.


Firmware Upgrade Instructions:
Note: Since this is a public beta test version, it cannot be installed using the "Via Network" upgrade method. Please choose the "Via USB" or "Via Disc" method instead. Alternatively, you can wait for this beta test version to be qualified as an official release version, and then perform an update to the latest official release via the Internet.
Is there at this time any advantage for me to load this to my Oppo 205 in conjunction with the current tone mapping of my Lumagen Radiance Pro? Or will this only be of utility in the future when the Radiance Pro's firmware has the necessary update?
 

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Is anyone using a Denon AVR-X3500H with the Pro?

I am experiencing intermittent audio/video blanking that lasts around 10 seconds with multiple sources.

I also have a 50 foot Ruipro hybrid fiber cable in between the pro and the AVR, so was thinking that component may be the cause. I am using an HDMI voltage inserter on the cable at the Pro output, because without it the video signal flashes repeatedly. I attempted to move the HDMI voltage inserter to the sink end (the AVR input) yesterday, but that caused constant audio issues.

I haven’t made any changes to the AVR settings in an attempt to mitigate this issue.

Any input/advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I am probably duplicating other replies, but I recommend getting rid of the voltage-inserter between the Pro and the RUIPRO. The Pro has plenty of HDMI standby output power to drive the RUIPRO, and the inserter is nothing more than a discontinuity in the HDMI transmission lines. The discontinuity it creates may be the cause of your dropouts, and in any case is a bad idea for a 4k HDMI connection.

I recommend against fiber cables for connections carrying audio since they tend to have more jitter than metal only HDMI cables. I also recommend against such a long cable for audio. Audio is much more sensitive than video for HDMI. If you need to go 50 feet from the Pro for the output carrying audio I recommend the Tributaries UHDT "Titan" all metal cable. I do not have any jitter data on this versus the RUIPRO but I have noticed the HDMI connection locks faster using the UHDT than the RUIPRO. I believe this is in part due to it having less jitter, but might just be it is a clean signal. Either way I prefer the Tributaries Titan, especially for audio connections, while still recommending the RUIPRO as an excellent cable.

It sounds like you pass video through the AVR. I recommend the Pro drive the Projector/TV directly and not through the AVR. I suspect if you send video from the Pro to the TV/projector directly, and audio to the AVR, both using Titan cables, you will improve your reliability. Of course I cannot be certain, but this change in connectivity has resolved dropouts in other systems.
Thanks Jim.

I will try removing it again, but the two times I have tried to remove the voltage inserter previously, there is constant flashing of the signal on and off. I should probably try different HDMI inputs on the AVR to make it a thorough test.

The reason for testing the other inputs is that Denon has recommended in the past with other AVR’s to use the HDMI input that is physically closest to the output to mitigate issues with 4K HDR source devices.

I want the AVR volume display on my TV and am willing to live with some compromises to achieve that goal.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I wanted to post an update that I solved my problem and was able to remove the HDMI voltage inserter by switching the Ruipro cable to a different input on the AVR, a Denon AVR-X3500H.

As noted above, Denon has recommended in the past with other AVR’s to use the HDMI input that is physically closest to the output to mitigate issues with 4K HDR source devices, so I was using input #7 (CD) since I purchased the AVR, as it was the closest input to the outputs. I was using it with the same Ruipro 50-foot cable and the Lumagen Radiance 2041 without the voltage inserter without issues.

I noted above that I would try the other inputs on the AVR to make the test thorough, and I finally got around to that task, and here are the detailed results. First I removed the voltage inserter from the source end (output of the Lumagen Radiance Pro) of the cable.

HDMI Input #1 (CBL/SAT)
This is farthest input (in physical distance) from the HDMI outputs on the receiver. This input resulted in a blanking video signal about every minute, and intermittent audio interruptions that occurred around every 10 seconds or so. The audio interruptions were very brief (milliseconds?), but were frequent enough to be annoying.

HDMI Input #2 (DVD)
This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.

HDMI Input #3 (Blu-ray)
This input resulted in no video or audio blanking.

HDMI Input #4 (GAME)
This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.

HDMI Input #5 (MEDIA PLAYER)
This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.

HDMI Input #6 (AUX2)
This input resulted in no picture at all; it never synched. I verified the input was set to use HDMI 6.

HDMI Input #7 (CD)
This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.

I don't really see any pattern to the above results, but I am glad I was able to remove the voltage inserter.

Mark
 

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Measuring the black level of Sony laser projector

Hello,
I wish you all the best for the New Year.
I would like to point out a little peculiarity when measuring the laser projector VW760ES with the Radiance Pro. Presumably it will be the same with the VW870ES and VW5000ES.

It is well known that these projectors perform laser dimming and, when set to "Laser Dimming = Full", turn off the laser completely when a black image is displayed. To measure the dimming effect, you usually use a black pattern with a pixel that is not black to prevent the laser from shutting off completely. With the VW760ES, the dimming improves the black value by about a factor of 1.5.

But I do not think it is known to all that the laser of the VW760ES also reacts to test patterns that are not completely black even with the setting "Laserdimming = Off". A single non-black pixel is enough to increase the black value by about 12%. This behavior of the VW760ES has not changed in the current firmware 8.004.
If you are prepared for the effect, you can see it quite well with your eyes. Of course, a Klein K10A reacts immediately. There is a small effect on the gamma curve in the lower range of 0 to 15%. This is certainly of little relevance for practical film use, as a picture is seldom 100% black.
But you should always know what you measure.

If the Radiance Pro is used as a pattern generator, it always shows the letter "A" in the upper right corner for a few seconds when calling a pattern. The Klein K10A is done with black measurement before the letter "A" disappears. This letter and the non-black pixel in the "black pattern" introduced since version 100118 cause the VW760ES to raise the black value.
If you take a "neutral" pattern generator instead, such as the DVDO TPG, then you measure a black level that is around 12% low.

If someone has a VW760ES and the Radiance Pro, he can very easily check the "effect" in a dark room by manually calling up the black test pattern on the Radiance Pro via the menu, switching off the info with the "2" button and then use the arrow keys "up" and "down" to switch the "special pixel" in the upper left corner to "black" or "not black". For the first test you should set the laser dimming on the VW760ES to "full", because then the laser completely shuts off, if the "special pixel" is switched to black. Then you get a feeling how to use the arrow keys. On the second test, the laser dimming will be turned off, and then you can see with your eyes that the black level changes slightly when you switch the pixel.

Perhaps it would be possible for Jim and Patrick to offer a switch for a "completely neutral" output of the patterns, but of course that's a big hassle.

Right now I'm helping myself by connecting the DVDO TPG as a pattern generator to the Radiance Pro's input and then measuring when logging the black value is important in the context of a LUT.
Thank you for your patience.
Peter
 
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