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Hello,
I wish you all the best for the New Year.
I would like to point out a little peculiarity when measuring the laser projector VW760ES with the Radiance Pro. Presumably it will be the same with the VW870ES and VW5000ES.

It is well known that these projectors perform laser dimming and, when set to "Laser Dimming = Full", turn off the laser completely when a black image is displayed. To measure the dimming effect, you usually use a black pattern with a pixel that is not black to prevent the laser from shutting off completely. With the VW760ES, the dimming improves the black value by about a factor of 1.5.

But I do not think it is known to all that the laser of the VW760ES also reacts to test patterns that are not completely black even with the setting "Laserdimming = Off". A single non-black pixel is enough to increase the black value by about 12%. This behavior of the VW760ES has not changed in the current firmware 8.004.
If you are prepared for the effect, you can see it quite well with your eyes. Of course, a Klein K10A reacts immediately. There is a small effect on the gamma curve in the lower range of 0 to 15%. This is certainly of little relevance for practical film use, as a picture is seldom 100% black.
But you should always know what you measure.

If the Radiance Pro is used as a pattern generator, it always shows the letter "A" in the upper right corner for a few seconds when calling a pattern. The Klein K10A is done with black measurement before the letter "A" disappears. This letter and the non-black pixel in the "black pattern" introduced since version 100118 cause the VW760ES to raise the black value.
If you take a "neutral" pattern generator instead, such as the DVDO TPG, then you measure a black level that is around 12% low.

If someone has a VW760ES and the Radiance Pro, he can very easily check the "effect" in a dark room by manually calling up the black test pattern on the Radiance Pro via the menu, switching off the info with the "2" button and then use the arrow keys "up" and "down" to switch the "special pixel" in the upper left corner to "black" or "not black". For the first test you should set the laser dimming on the VW760ES to "full", because then the laser completely shuts off, if the "special pixel" is switched to black. Then you get a feeling how to use the arrow keys. On the second test, the laser dimming will be turned off, and then you can see with your eyes that the black level changes slightly when you switch the pixel.

Perhaps it would be possible for Jim and Patrick to offer a switch for a "completely neutral" output of the patterns, but of course that's a big hassle.

Right now I'm helping myself by connecting the DVDO TPG as a pattern generator to the Radiance Pro's input and then measuring when logging the black value is important in the context of a LUT.
Thank you for your patience.
Peter
Hi Peter, yes I've noticed that issue on my VW760ES when were calibrating 3D Lut via LightSpace.
I Simply turn off Dynamic Laser Control , so set it to Off, and perform a usual step by step calibration.
I also use patterns without info letters (A letter at the corner).
 

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Hello,
I wish you all the best for the New Year.
I would like to point out a little peculiarity when measuring the laser projector VW760ES with the Radiance Pro. Presumably it will be the same with the VW870ES and VW5000ES.

It is well known that these projectors perform laser dimming and, when set to "Laser Dimming = Full", turn off the laser completely when a black image is displayed. To measure the dimming effect, you usually use a black pattern with a pixel that is not black to prevent the laser from shutting off completely. With the VW760ES, the dimming improves the black value by about a factor of 1.5.

But I do not think it is known to all that the laser of the VW760ES also reacts to test patterns that are not completely black even with the setting "Laserdimming = Off". A single non-black pixel is enough to increase the black value by about 12%. This behavior of the VW760ES has not changed in the current firmware 8.004.
If you are prepared for the effect, you can see it quite well with your eyes. Of course, a Klein K10A reacts immediately. There is a small effect on the gamma curve in the lower range of 0 to 15%. This is certainly of little relevance for practical film use, as a picture is seldom 100% black.
But you should always know what you measure.

If the Radiance Pro is used as a pattern generator, it always shows the letter "A" in the upper right corner for a few seconds when calling a pattern. The Klein K10A is done with black measurement before the letter "A" disappears. This letter and the non-black pixel in the "black pattern" introduced since version 100118 cause the VW760ES to raise the black value.
If you take a "neutral" pattern generator instead, such as the DVDO TPG, then you measure a black level that is around 12% low.

If someone has a VW760ES and the Radiance Pro, he can very easily check the "effect" in a dark room by manually calling up the black test pattern on the Radiance Pro via the menu, switching off the info with the "2" button and then use the arrow keys "up" and "down" to switch the "special pixel" in the upper left corner to "black" or "not black". For the first test you should set the laser dimming on the VW760ES to "full", because then the laser completely shuts off, if the "special pixel" is switched to black. Then you get a feeling how to use the arrow keys. On the second test, the laser dimming will be turned off, and then you can see with your eyes that the black level changes slightly when you switch the pixel.

Perhaps it would be possible for Jim and Patrick to offer a switch for a "completely neutral" output of the patterns, but of course that's a big hassle.

Right now I'm helping myself by connecting the DVDO TPG as a pattern generator to the Radiance Pro's input and then measuring when logging the black value is important in the context of a LUT.
Thank you for your patience.
Peter
I saw this when I was doing the contrast measurements for the 995ES review I'm writing. I use a single pixel pattern for black so that the laser doesn't turn off. Normally, this would be the native black floor but I saw the same thing you did. The black floor is different between a full black (no pixel) and even a single pixel.

Native contrast (no pixel): 16,500:1 Native contrast (single pixel): 12,000:1

This also applies when you use the dimming modes

Limited CR (no pixel): 24,000:1, (with pixel): 16,800:1

So the absolute best contrast one can get from this projector (because all content will have at least a pixel worth of data other than a true black out) is 21,000:1 (this was in dimming mode FULL with a single pixel).

To say I was REALLY surprised by this result would be an understatement, but it was VERY repeatable and the single pixel was not influencing the meter at all (well outside of the read area).
 

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Getting very OT but really interesting; so it sounds like there is some kind of undefeatable dimming happening even with the dimming notionally turned off? Is this a cynical attempt to fudge on/off contrast measurements? Is the dimming happening at the laser or is it somehow at the panel level? There is at least one interesting and slightly odd phenomenon you can observe on a JVC PJ if you're awake; where the black floor raises (black colour shifts to redder also) during the transition to the lens control screens and at some other mode transitions - like some "extra black" "thing" is electronically turned off. It affects the non-pixel areas of the panel also, so I'm sure it isn't just digital black being raised and is something that happens which changes the black floor. It isn't related to the iris or lamp as you can see these don't change, nor is it the cinema filter.
 

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aka jfinnie
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Not sure if it is at the panel or laser level, would be really hard to figure that out.

I've seen the shifting in JVC levels when it is resynching to an input signal, the Sony does something similar at times.
If the level shift is that significant you >might< be able to see some interesting info by watching the power consumption of the unit in real time while testing. It wouldn't be conclusive, but would probably be right.

You could work out what manual laser levels gave you the different measured black levels with dimming disabled and a single pixel on the screen (to prevent the dimming); and then measure the power consumption at those levels. Do this both for the black levels you get with the pixel and without (but always with the pixel displayed).
Then look at your zero pixel images. If the power consumption now drops in line with the power consumption of the single pixel tests at that black level then it is probably fairly safe to say that the laser is being dimmed.
 

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I've been very much out of the loop, but just wanted to ask a question: If I update my Radiance Pro to the most recent firmware (it's about a year out of date currently) and run a calibration, would I then have to run another calibration if the dynamic HDR function becomes available? In other words, would this function 'sit on top' of any 2.4/rec2020 calibration that I do?

I don't have much chance to do a calibration, so I've been using my Pro as a rather expensive HDMI switch/'shrink mode device for CIH' since I got it last year. :eek: I have a few bits to finish in my room with more black velvet, but hope to do this soon so it would make it worth doing a calibration. I just don't want to have to repeat it all again if the dynamic function comes along.

On the other hand, if it's going to be a work in progress for a while then maybe I'll just use the most recent stable firmware, run a calibration and stick with that until next winter's viewing season...
 

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Jim's calibration and Radiance Pro class is tonight after CES in Vegas.


Kelvin. I'd expect that the dynamic tonemapping will apply over a 2.4 gamma SDR gamma curve. So you should be able to go and do your rec2020 2.4gamma calibration.
 

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As am I - I'm hearing very good reports out of the MadVR camp that moving to dynamic tone mapping has made a substantial improvement.
I can confirm this - it's amazing.
 

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Auto-aspect issue

With the I think latest two changes regarding auto-aspect I noticed issues.
I had them before and went back to an older version, but now even the latest shows the same so I'm pretty confident that it is related:

I use 2.35 same aspect mode and NLS, as described in a technical note.
two things happen:

1.
On darker scenes, and I don't mean like really black, even with some brighter elements, the ratio changes to like 1:78 (auto), although the content is 2.35.
This happens just randomly, but usually on darker scenes. Sometime several times in a row. I always have to manually override.

2.
That one is really nasty and it seems related to 1.78 or 1.85 content. There is also switching but there is no real picture anymore, just a 4:3 aspect color mess in the middle of the screen.
It also happens sometimes several times in a row or nothing for longer period of time.

Any ideas?

cheers, roland
 

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I recently just bought RadiancePro 4240. First thing I was trying to do was update the software as mentioned in the Radiance Pro setup slide. I have PC with windows 7 with no physical serial port, only USB. The Lumagen Pro came with a USB with type A on one end that connects to the PC and type B on the other end that connects to the unit. I believed I followed the instruction on how to update the unit but I am lost when it asked me the COM port number. Since there is no physical serial port, do I need to buy a Virtual COM port software to do this? The instruction did mention about "the interface remains a virtual serial port interface" when using the provided USB cable. What does this mean? Any help is highly appreciated. Thank you in advance!
 

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I recently just bought RadiancePro 4240. First thing I was trying to do was update the software as mentioned in the Radiance Pro setup slide. I have PC with windows 7 with no physical serial port, only USB. The Lumagen Pro came with a USB with type A on one end that connects to the PC and type B on the other end that connects to the unit. I believed I followed the instruction on how to update the unit but I am lost when it asked me the COM port number. Since there is no physical serial port, do I need to buy a Virtual COM port software to do this? The instruction did mention about "the interface remains a virtual serial port interface" when using the provided USB cable. What does this mean? Any help is highly appreciated. Thank you in advance!
Just select a COM port and start...if it's not the right one it won't start. Just keep trying different COM ports and eventually it will begin.
 

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I recently just bought RadiancePro 4240. First thing I was trying to do was update the software as mentioned in the Radiance Pro setup slide. I have PC with windows 7 with no physical serial port, only USB. The Lumagen Pro came with a USB with type A on one end that connects to the PC and type B on the other end that connects to the unit. I believed I followed the instruction on how to update the unit but I am lost when it asked me the COM port number. Since there is no physical serial port, do I need to buy a Virtual COM port software to do this? The instruction did mention about "the interface remains a virtual serial port interface" when using the provided USB cable. What does this mean? Any help is highly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

I'm not sure if this will will work with Windows 7 or not but you can also try this to find the exact COM port to use.


Hook up your Lumagen to your Windows laptop or PC with the provided connection. Make sure the Radiance has power and is in standby or is powered on.


Go to Windows Device Manager. (See this if you need help.)


In Device Manager, look for the Port section. Expand the Port section.


You should see which COM port to use in the Radiance firmware updater. In the image below, I should use the USB serial port, which is COM3.







Easy peasy. :)
 
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Finally, software updated. I did what bearcat2002 suggested. Weird that under device management, the Port line is not showing. So I just started form COM1 and got lucky with COM3. I was so scared that it may Brick the Radiance Pro. I wasted 2 days trying to figure this out myself and browsing through hundreds of post here. I should have just asked. Thank you so much for the help!
 
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