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This looks very much like a bug, so I was expecting at least something from Lumagen... :mad:


With the I think latest two changes regarding auto-aspect I noticed issues.
I had them before and went back to an older version, but now even the latest shows the same so I'm pretty confident that it is related:

I use 2.35 same aspect mode and NLS, as described in a technical note.
two things happen:

1.
On darker scenes, and I don't mean like really black, even with some brighter elements, the ratio changes to like 1:78 (auto), although the content is 2.35.
This happens just randomly, but usually on darker scenes. Sometime several times in a row. I always have to manually override.

2.
That one is really nasty and it seems related to 1.78 or 1.85 content. There is also switching but there is no real picture anymore, just a 4:3 aspect color mess in the middle of the screen.
It also happens sometimes several times in a row or nothing for longer period of time.

Any ideas?

cheers, roland
 

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Maybe NLS needs to be enabled for this bug to show? I don't think most people use NLS. I'm currently using the DCR with my 16:9 JVC RS600 while I await the RS3000 (Monday!), setting the Radiance to an aspect of 2.22 to keep the final aspect correct, and I don't see any issues with auto-aspect other than sometimes I have to force it to scope due to the black bars not being black enough, such as the Bernard visions in West World season 2.

I'd email Lumagen support.
 

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Maybe NLS needs to be enabled for this bug to show? I don't think most people use NLS. I'm currently using the DCR with my 16:9 JVC RS600 while I await the RS3000 (Monday!), setting the Radiance to an aspect of 2.22 to keep the final aspect correct, and I don't see any issues with auto-aspect other than sometimes I have to force it to scope due to the black bars not being black enough, such as the Bernard visions in West World season 2.

I'd email Lumagen support.
I also think its NLS related, well I guess I email them then, still, they are active here so...
 

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I also think its NLS related, well I guess I email them then, still, they are active here so...

this is not a support forum. If you have bugs or find issues your best and fastest course of action to a result is to email them. you can see from length of time between visits that this is not somewhere that they visit every day...or even every week. Emailing usually gets a response within 24 hours in my experience.



Gordon
 

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this is not a support forum. If you have bugs or find issues your best and fastest course of action to a result is to email them. you can see from length of time between visits that this is not somewhere that they visit every day...or even every week. Emailing usually gets a response within 24 hours in my experience.



Gordon
I guess you're right. Would have been nice though.
 

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I’m thinking I may invest in a Lumagen to avail of the dynamic tone mapping which is incoming.

I can’t spare the time to mess around with Mad VR and so on, life’s too short, and time is too precious.

Just wondering what all you owners consider to be the best feature, most used and most beneficial?
 

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How much of the lumagen is set it and forget it? Or do I always have to tweak it?
I watch Netflix 4k hdr, amazon, vudu 4k, plex movies 1080p blu ray rips. Occasional disc on the oppo 403.

Was about to pay for an ISF calibration but was trying to figure out of the lumagen can auto calibrate yet?
Does the lumagen 4k have that ability to tie in with a meter and go thru at least a wizard?
 

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It is set it and forget it until things change, such as lamp aging. However, the fly in the ointment is the rise of UHD/HDR. It's more than a little complicated to use the Radiance Pro and calibration software (at least for me with CalMAN Enthusiast). Wondering if any other software with appropriate meters makes it much easier to do a calibration, at least at this point in time.
 

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It is set it and forget it until things change, such as lamp aging. However, the fly in the ointment is the rise of UHD/HDR. It's more than a little complicated to use the Radiance Pro and calibration software (at least for me with CalMAN Enthusiast). Wondering if any other software with appropriate meters makes it much easier to do a calibration, at least at this point in time.
I'm surprised it is complicated for HDR in Calman. In Lightspace all you need to do is set the PJ to whatever mode you would use for HDR, play some HDR content, upload a null cube to reset the LUT and make a profile of however large you want it, and then create a 3DLUT. There is some detail you need to understand around what you have your output colourspace set to - and hence what you set your LUT target to be - but there's not that much to it. What aspect of the Calman setup do you find complicated?
 

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Glad Lightspace is easy. I’m looking for CalMAN for HDR to be as simple as using its Autocal for SDR.
 

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In fairness I don't think what Lightspace does could be called anything close to a guided "autocal" process. I don't find it complicated (in fact the only times I've seen Calman in use I've disliked the guided way it works) but I'm an electronics engineer who prefers the nuts and bolts of things.
 

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I'm surprised it is complicated for HDR in Calman. In Lightspace all you need to do is set the PJ to whatever mode you would use for HDR, play some HDR content, upload a null cube to reset the LUT and make a profile of however large you want it, and then create a 3DLUT. There is some detail you need to understand around what you have your output colourspace set to - and hence what you set your LUT target to be - but there's not that much to it. What aspect of the Calman setup do you find complicated?
I've never been able to do a Rec2020 3D LUT in Calman, though its been over a year since I tried, it always seemed to make a complete mess of it. From (distant) memory I think Calman always tried to apply the full PQ gamma curve in measuring and calculating the LUT points, so a large proportion of the points in the colour cube were clipped because the projector couldn't get anywhere near the luminance range. Don't quote me, and they may have changed things in the past year, but I think that's why it didn't work in the past.

How do you tackle that in Lightspace? Does it let you do a 3D LUT for BT2020 based on a 2.4 power gamma?

Luckily I never really needed it as the 760's gamuts track really well, so a 1D LUT for SDR2020 output has been sufficient.
 

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I've never been able to do a Rec2020 3D LUT in Calman, though its been over a year since I tried, it always seemed to make a complete mess of it. From (distant) memory I think Calman always tried to apply the full PQ gamma curve in measuring and calculating the LUT points, so a large proportion of the points in the colour cube were clipped because the projector couldn't get anywhere near the luminance range. Don't quote me, and they may have changed things in the past year, but I think that's why it didn't work in the past.

How do you tackle that in Lightspace? Does it let you do a 3D LUT for BT2020 based on a 2.4 power gamma?

Luckily I never really needed it as the 760's gamuts track really well, so a 1D LUT for SDR2020 output has been sufficient.
That side of things works great; if you know enough to know that's what you want & need you'd probably find Lightspace a refreshing change.

You create the cube profile based on your probe capabilities, display characteristics and time available. This cube is colour space agnostic - it just represents measured xyY for given input triplets.

When you want to create a 3DLUT you have tons of options of targets; including REC709, 2020 with power gamma (known in LS as UHD 2020), 2020 with PQ curve (ST2084), ST 2084 2020 with baked in tone mapping curve to BT2390, DCI P3 with D65 white point (defaults to 2.6 gamma but can be set to 2.4), etc.
I've recently been doing DCIP3 D65 output 3DLUTs and using them with the new DCIP3 output colourspace settings in the Lumagen, which seems useful as most projectors don't even meet DCIP3. The neat thing is I was actually able to generate the newly supported DCIP3 LUT from an old set of profile data.

You can also create custom colourspaces where you modify some of the gamut points which can be useful in some situations.

If you ever want to have a poke around in LS let me know (though I think you can actually try out the LUT generation in the demo, it just inserts a watermark notch which spoils the greyscale)
 

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That side of things works great; if you know enough to know that's what you want & need you'd probably find Lightspace a refreshing change.

You create the cube profile based on your probe capabilities, display characteristics and time available. This cube is colour space agnostic - it just represents measured xyY for given input triplets.

When you want to create a 3DLUT you have tons of options of targets; including REC709, 2020 with power gamma (known in LS as UHD 2020), 2020 with PQ curve (ST2084), ST 2084 2020 with baked in tone mapping curve to BT2390, DCI P3 with D65 white point (defaults to 2.6 gamma but can be set to 2.4), etc.
I've recently been doing DCIP3 D65 output 3DLUTs and using them with the new DCIP3 output colourspace settings in the Lumagen, which seems useful as most projectors don't even meet DCIP3. The neat thing is I was actually able to generate the newly supported DCIP3 LUT from an old set of profile data.

You can also create custom colourspaces where you modify some of the gamut points which can be useful in some situations.

If you ever want to have a poke around in LS let me know (though I think you can actually try out the LUT generation in the demo, it just inserts a watermark notch which spoils the greyscale)
That does sound good to be honest. I’ve downloaded the demo a couple of times previously, but just find the interface almost impenetrable. I think I probabaly need to pencil in a day to really have a concerted effort to climb the learning curve, but it’s a hard nut to crack on first inspection.

I believe someone (Gordon?) was going to post a primer at some point - that would be a useful way into the software. I imagine, like most things, once you’ve done a couple of cals on it, it becomes more intuitive.
 

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That does sound good to be honest. I’ve downloaded the demo a couple of times previously, but just find the interface almost impenetrable. I think I probabaly need to pencil in a day to really have a concerted effort to climb the learning curve, but it’s a hard nut to crack on first inspection.

I believe someone (Gordon?) was going to post a primer at some point - that would be a useful way into the software. I imagine, like most things, once you’ve done a couple of cals on it, it becomes more intuitive.
I've been using it for a couple of years now. Cut my teeth just doing SDR LUTs, then hacked around doing HDR LUTs for my old X30 JVC with the 2143 (using a Linker to force output of the WCG2020 data at 1080p to the 2143), and now got the Pro. The LS docs are pretty good and you have the benefit that Steve is here in our timezone and appears to not sleep, so will reply it seems at most times within hours. There are a few things about the interface and graphs which are a bit idiosyncratic, and it isn't a great tool for manual (interactive) calibration, but for 3DLUT I don't think it really has any competition. I did own CP3 and really didn't get on with that at all, I've seen CM being used and don't like the restrictive workflow.

Once you get your head round profiling and LUT generation being separate things you do it is actually pretty straightforward - especially if you're already across the technical reqs, which is where a lot of CM users I think fall down because Calman significantly lowers the bar in terms of what you need to understand to be able to get some kind of calibration done.

It is pretty much:

Set up patch generation in the Lumagen or an external patch gen (oddly, under Upload). Upload a NULL cube to the currently active CMS by checking the box.
Go to Calibration interface - it will ask you to connect to the meter. Spend a little time taking some manual readings and quick profiles to figure out how you're going to set up the projector in what modes for what you are trying to achieve.
Go to Display Characterisation and set up the cube or patch sequence you are going to profile. Run the profile.
Use Convert Colorspace to choose the target colourspace (top section) and the measured profile (middle section); setting options / LUT algorithm (bottom section).
Upload the cube by unchecking the upload NULL box, which will upload the currently selected LUT to the currently active CMS. It uploads a calculated 1D and 3D lut together as a pair (they're both generated mathematically from the one profile pass).
 

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It is pretty much:

Set up patch generation in the Lumagen . . . .
It sounds fairly straight forward, and it almost sounds like you’re half way to writing a primer yourself - add a few dozen annotated screen grabs, pad out the instructions so it’s a bit more like painting by numbers, and I think it’ll be there! :D

Seriously though, if you ever get time to put one together, I’m sure I’m not the only one that would find it useful.
 

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It sounds fairly straight forward, and it almost sounds like you’re half way to writing a primer yourself - add a few dozen annotated screen grabs, pad out the instructions so it’s a bit more like painting by numbers, and I think it’ll be there! :D

Seriously though, if you ever get time to put one together, I’m sure I’m not the only one that would find it useful.
Maybe next time I run a cal I will leave a screen recorder running and then maybe I can edit something together.
 

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So, can someone explain to a newbie what this all means?

If I buy the lumagen, what do I do then? do I buy a lightmeter? does it come with software? or do I buy that seperate? Do I have to be a trained professional to figure it out? or is there a walk thru tutorial. ?

Do I just leave the projector on out of the box settings and the lumagen changes evertyhing it needs on the input signal? or does the software tell me what to change on the projector? Is this close to or the same as an ISF calibration?

Or do I still have to hire someone to come and do that?
 

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So, can someone explain to a newbie what this all means?

If I buy the lumagen, what do I do then? do I buy a lightmeter? does it come with software? or do I buy that seperate? Do I have to be a trained professional to figure it out? or is there a walk thru tutorial. ?

Do I just leave the projector on out of the box settings and the lumagen changes evertyhing it needs on the input signal? or does the software tell me what to change on the projector? Is this close to or the same as an ISF calibration?

Or do I still have to hire someone to come and do that?
The Radiance Pro is a great product but somewhat beyond most of us to properly configure, let alone use with CalMAN or other software and probes, etc. to have a calibration done.

First thing is to call Lumagen to get their assessment of what you're attempting.

Get an expert if you're likely to want HDR calibration. That area is truly, at this point in time, a mess and likely to cause you grief trying to do on your own. I know, I've been there as a so-called "enthusiast" of CalMAN. Just had Chad in yesterday to do his magic. What a difference. He uncovered many issues with my setup and calibration efforts. In future I'll look to far better display technology, mostly in terms of usability, stability, fewer artifacts, and ease of calibration by the average joe, etc. Even then I'll schedule a pro to come in soon after any new purchase. I know enough, at this point, just how much I don't know...
 

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The Radiance Pro is a great product but somewhat beyond most of us to properly configure, let alone use with CalMAN or other software and probes, etc. to have a calibration done.

First thing is to call Lumagen to get their assessment of what you're attempting.

Get an expert if you're likely to want HDR calibration. That area is truly, at this point in time, a mess and likely to cause you grief trying to do on your own. I know, I've been there as a so-called "enthusiast" of CalMAN. Just had Chad in yesterday to do his magic. What a difference. He uncovered many issues with my setup and calibration efforts. In future I'll look to far better display technology, mostly in terms of usability, stability, fewer artifacts, and ease of calibration by the average joe, etc. Even then I'll schedule a pro to come in soon after any new purchase. I know enough, at this point, just how much I don't know...
Did Chad use the Lumagen to calibrate?
 
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