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PIP/POP and AVR GUIs

Agree!

Specifically purchased my 444x for PIP/POP.....
I didn't use PIP/POP that much when I had the XE but I will likely try to use it more now.
In the past I couldn't look at onscreen menu for my old Denon 5308CI AVR, but would love if that is possible now with PIP/POP.
I think there is a HDMI feedback issue that is difficult. In the past this was resolvable with a component out from AVR into Lumagen XE I think.
 

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Thanks for the feedback on which feature to implement next. A real tight race between PiP and pipeline improvements. We plan to do an "edge enhancement" feature and it is high on the list, but after the pipeline improvements to avoid working on it both before and after the pipeline improvements.

I do not use PiP/PoP, and do not like "edge enhancement." On the other hand, I have taken to leaving Darbee on for 1080 and lower sources, but at a low setting of around 25 where it does not seem to create artifacts but does give a bit of enhancement due to its "local contrast improvement." I mention this as my personal interest is mostly in the pipeline improvement even though the pipeline precision is already very good.

Having said that and after considering feedback, I think we will work in the following order:
1) Initial "Basic PiP" (no PoP)
2) Pipeline enhancements
3) Initial "Basic PoP"
4) Some form of edge enhancement
5) Additional PiP/PoP improvement

It may be that 1 and 3 are best done at the same time.

I think this gets people with 444X units the most important PiP feature of using pip to see their audio processor OSD.

NOTE: As a reminder for those wanting PiP/PoP for their 444X unit: Only one input on each 18 GHz input board can be active at any one time and so you cannot do PiP/PoP using both inputs on a single 18 GHz input card. Input boards have two inputs. So input 1&2, etc., share a board. This limitation does not apply to 9 GHz input cards since each input has its own input chip.

NOTE: There will be only a single tone mapping circuit for the main window. The PiP Window will not have any video enhancements or controls (or only very minimal control) and is expected to be a SDR source.
 

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NOTE: There will be only a single tone mapping circuit for the main window. The PiP Window will not have any video enhancements or controls (or only very minimal control) and is expected to be a SDR source.
One question on that last point - Will the EDID for the PiP Window source disable the "HDR Allowed" attribute such that HDR-capable devices will still work with it by only sending SDR signals in that configuration?
 

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I do not believe there is a way to turn off what you are displaying to - High/Low Projector, OLED, LCD, etc. in initial set up you have to choose something or the unit does that itself automatically - You do however have the ability to directly turn off the HDR Tone Mapping, if you hold down the quick HDR button it will go into advanced HDR mode to make changes
I believe as long as you have the HDR optimizer turned off, it will ignore whatever display type you select:)
 

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One question on that last point - Will the EDID for the PiP Window source disable the "HDR Allowed" attribute such that HDR-capable devices will still work with it by only sending SDR signals in that configuration?
Even though I said the PiP source is expected to be SDR, I really hope we can support some basic HDR source processing. I just did not (and still do not) want to commit to it until we know it will fit in the FPGA.

I think it likely that we will allow the PiP source to be HDR and that we will be able to do a "simplified" conversion to the output format based on the Display Max Light setting. Note that depending on the output format this might be HDR to SDR or SDR to HDR.

As an example, we might use a "1D LUT" like a lot of projectors do for their "Tone Mapping" since it is small. Even though this is mathematically incorrect it does an okay job (near the gray vector) and might be acceptable for the PiP Window. We would also need a color space converter since the PiP source's color format may be different than the output color format. So there is going to be some hardware needed, but as I mentioned there may not be any user controls visible for the PiP source (or maybe there will be. Just don't know yet)

If the conversion above is not going to fit the user already can select an EDID that says "No HDR" for the PiP input for a specific memory to be used when the source is going to the PiP window. We could of course make this automatic and would consider that as well.

There is also a small chance we say that the main window and the PiP window must be the same dynamic range and color format which saves the color space conversion and the "basic tone mapping" and so is easiest to fit in the FPGA. This may not be as bad as it sounds. For example PoP is likely for two sports games and so they can likely be the same format. Or it might be for two game consoles and then both can be put in the same output format. Or your audio processor OSD might look a little to bright or colorful if the output format does not match. Don't worry too much on this one. I think we will have room for the basic tone map and color format change, but not committing to it.
 

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Lumagen Demo Theater

I know this is a bit off topic, but thought i would mention we have finished the "Lumagen Demo Theater" in a custom built 19 feet wide by 21 feet long (plus a two foot deep false wall for equipment and speakers) by 12 feet high room. There is still some fine tuning of sound to do, and a few other tweaks, but it is very nice already. Here are some of the fun facts:

Lumagen Radiance Pro 4446 (okay, no surprise here)
JVC RS4500
Stewart Filmscreen Studiotek 130, 168 inch diagonal (155 inch wide), 2.40 fixed screen
Trinnov Altitude 16 in a 9.2.6 configuration
Two Trinnov Amplitude8, eight channel power amplifiers
MiniDSP (to control Sub Woofers) that has not been implemented yet
Revel C208 center channel speaker
Revel F206 for Left and Right speakers
Revel W383 for the 12 surround speakers
Two Hsu Research VTF-15H MK2 Subwoofers
Custom built (by me) enclosures for the surrounds so they point in the correct ATMOS direction
Kaleidescape Strato
Oppo 203 (modified for reduced output jitter and reduced EMI by CineMike in Germany)
Panasonic UB900
Roku Ultra
AppleTV 4k (yet to be installed)
DirecTV
Chairs by Row One (two rows of five with back row on 8 inch riser)
URC control system
Dedicated 30 Amp 240 VAC and 20 Amp 120 VAC circuits for equipment
4 inch thick acoustic panels by Acoustimac
Understated LOTR theme courtesy of my wife

I want to especially thank JVC, Revel, Stewart Filmscreen, and Trinnov for their assistance in helping make our Demo Theater a most excellent place to watch movies and do training. Also thanks to Floyd Toole for his excellent book on acoustics.

I had Craig Rounds (video calibration), Curt Hoyt (audio calibration of the Trinnov), and Kris Deering (video calibration and audio consulting), over for a fun filled weekend to christen the theater and help me get it tuned up. John Schuermann of The Screening Room also attended and gave us his reviewer's view of the theater.

I don't want to hijack this thread so please email me at our Lumagen support email if you would like additional details. Of course, if your questions are appropriate for this thread (e.g. Radiance Pro setup for the RS4500) I think it is fine to ask questions here.
 

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I know this is a bit off topic, but thought i would mention we have finished the "Lumagen Demo Theater" . . .
Superb Jim, congrats on getting it all over the line - certainly a reference grade system! It'd be good to see some pics of it all (either in this thread or another dedicated thread).

Given I also own the RS4500 I'd be interested to hear what settings you've settled on in your Radiance, and also what peak nits you are running HDR at? Also, have you chosen to output BT2020 to your RS4500, or chosen to covert to P3?
 

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I know this is a bit off topic, but thought i would mention we have finished the "Lumagen Demo Theater" in a custom built 19 feet wide by 21 feet long (plus a two foot deep false wall for equipment and speakers) by 12 feet high room. There is still some fine tuning of sound to do, and a few other tweaks, but it is very nice already. Here are some of the fun facts:



Lumagen Radiance Pro 4446 (okay, no surprise here)

JVC RS4500

Stewart Filmscreen Studiotek 130, 168 inch diagonal (155 inch wide), 2.40 fixed screen

Trinnov Altitude 16 in a 9.2.6 configuration

Two Trinnov Amplitude8, eight channel power amplifiers

MiniDSP (to control Sub Woofers) that has not been implemented yet

Revel C208 center channel speaker

Revel F206 for Left and Right speakers

Revel W383 for the 12 surround speakers

Two Hsu Research VTF-15H MK2 Subwoofers

Custom built (by me) enclosures for the surrounds so they point in the correct ATMOS direction

Kaleidescape Strato

Oppo 203 (modified for reduced output jitter and reduced EMI by CineMike in Germany)

Panasonic UB900

Roku Ultra

AppleTV 4k (yet to be installed)

DirecTV

Chairs by Row One (two rows of five with back row on 8 inch riser)

URC control system

Dedicated 30 Amp 240 VAC and 20 Amp 120 VAC circuits for equipment

4 inch thick acoustic panels by Acoustimac

Understated LOTR theme courtesy of my wife



I want to especially thank JVC, Revel, Stewart Filmscreen, and Trinnov for their assistance in helping make our Demo Theater a most excellent place to watch movies and do training. Also thanks to Floyd Toole for his excellent book on acoustics.



I had Craig Rounds (video calibration), Curt Hoyt (audio calibration of the Trinnov), and Kris Deering (video calibration and audio consulting), over for a fun filled weekend to christen the theater and help me get it tuned up. John Schuermann of The Screening Room also attended and gave us his reviewer's view of the theater.



I don't want to hijack this thread so please email me at our Lumagen support email if you would like additional details. Of course, if your questions are appropriate for this thread (e.g. Radiance Pro setup for the RS4500) I think it is fine to ask questions here.


Love to see the theme


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I believe as long as you have the HDR optimizer turned off, it will ignore whatever display type you select:)
Where/how do you select the display type?
 

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Where/how do you select the display type?

Its under the setup menu-->HDMI-->advanced settings if memory serves.

However, Im assuming since you have the lumagen doing the dynamic tone mapping so youll have the ub820s hdr optimzer off so display type shouldnt matter
 

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Its under the setup menu-->HDMI-->advanced settings if memory serves.

However, Im assuming since you have the lumagen doing the dynamic tone mapping so youll have the ub820s hdr optimzer off so display type shouldnt matter

Thanks! :)
 
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Last night I watched Thor Ragnarok 4K UHD disc (pan ub820, JVC rs2000) with the DTM enabled on the lumagen.

I noticed during several random bright scenes the picture would significantly darken, then be back to normal on the next scene. This is the first time Ive noticed this behavior. At first I thought it was my JVC DI malfunctioning, but the behavior continued even with the DI shut off.

After some troubleshooting, I determined it was the subtitles causing it. I usually never use the subtitles so ive never seen this phenomenon before (but I was watching with my parents who need the subtitles).

Turning subtitles off fixed the issue. Also, turning the luminance of the subtitles down to about -10 also resolved the problem.

Perhaps this was already a known issue, but just wanted to see if anyone else has noticed this
 
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Superb Jim, congrats on getting it all over the line - certainly a reference grade system! It'd be good to see some pics of it all (either in this thread or another dedicated thread).

Given I also own the RS4500 I'd be interested to hear what settings you've settled on in your Radiance, and also what peak nits you are running HDR at? Also, have you chosen to output BT2020 to you RS4500, or chosen to covert to P3?
I'd be curious too. There are a few of us RS4500 / Radiance Pro owners here. :)
 

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I know this is a bit off topic, but thought i would mention we have finished the "Lumagen Demo Theater" in a custom built 19 feet wide by 21 feet long (plus a two foot deep false wall for equipment and speakers) by 12 feet high room. There is still some fine tuning of sound to do, and a few other tweaks, but it is very nice already. Here are some of the fun facts:

Lumagen Radiance Pro 4446 (okay, no surprise here)
JVC RS4500
Stewart Filmscreen Studiotek 130, 168 inch diagonal (155 inch wide), 2.40 fixed screen
Trinnov Altitude 16 in a 9.2.6 configuration
Two Trinnov Amplitude8, eight channel power amplifiers
MiniDSP (to control Sub Woofers) that has not been implemented yet
Revel C208 center channel speaker
Revel F206 for Left and Right speakers
Revel W383 for the 12 surround speakers
Two Hsu Research VTF-15H MK2 Subwoofers
Custom built (by me) enclosures for the surrounds so they point in the correct ATMOS direction
Kaleidescape Strato
Oppo 203 (modified for reduced output jitter and reduced EMI by CineMike in Germany)
Panasonic UB900
Roku Ultra
AppleTV 4k (yet to be installed)
DirecTV
Chairs by Row One (two rows of five with back row on 8 inch riser)
URC control system
Dedicated 30 Amp 240 VAC and 20 Amp 120 VAC circuits for equipment
4 inch thick acoustic panels by Acoustimac
Understated LOTR theme courtesy of my wife

I want to especially thank JVC, Revel, Stewart Filmscreen, and Trinnov for their assistance in helping make our Demo Theater a most excellent place to watch movies and do training. Also thanks to Floyd Toole for his excellent book on acoustics.

I had Craig Rounds (video calibration), Curt Hoyt (audio calibration of the Trinnov), and Kris Deering (video calibration and audio consulting), over for a fun filled weekend to christen the theater and help me get it tuned up. John Schuermann of The Screening Room also attended and gave us his reviewer's view of the theater.

I don't want to hijack this thread so please email me at our Lumagen support email if you would like additional details. Of course, if your questions are appropriate for this thread (e.g. Radiance Pro setup for the RS4500) I think it is fine to ask questions here.
I don't think you can hijack the thread about Lumagen!
:)

Looks like your live about 9 miles from my brother in Portland.
Even more reasons to visit him.

Mike
 

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I have decided to join the Lumagen club.

I have purchased a 4242 and will employ the services of Craig Rounds to perform the calibration. I purchased the Lumagen from him as well. I am quite excited to see what can be further improved in my RS4500/Panamorph. I was watching some 4K stuff earlier today and really can not imagine how the image can be further improved - but I have decided to make the investment and find out!!

This is an insane (and very expensive) hobby. I will have more invested in my video system (Lumagen/RS4500/Panamorph/Calibration) than I did in my first home. After this is setup and calibrated, the video components of my theater will be as good as the audio components. As someone said in an earlier post, the Lumagen is to video as the Trinnov is to audio.
 

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I have decided to join the Lumagen club.



I have purchased a 4242 and will employ the services of Craig Rounds to perform the calibration. I purchased the Lumagen from him as well. I am quite excited to see what can be further improved in my RS4500/Panamorph. I was watching some 4K stuff earlier today and really can not imagine how the image can be further improved - but I have decided to make the investment and find out!!



This is an insane (and very expensive) hobby. I will have more invested in my video system (Lumagen/RS4500/Panamorph/Calibration) than I did in my first home. After this is setup and calibrated, the video components of my theater will be as good as the audio components. As someone said in an earlier post, the Lumagen is to video as the Trinnov is to audio.


Congrats u will be impressed from what ur pic will be wait to ur first impressions


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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