AVS Forum banner

5261 - 5280 of 8147 Posts

·
Rise & Grind
Joined
·
575 Posts
I've installed it on a VW5000 and almost everything is working perfectly, just a couple of random frame with noticeable yellow cast in the whole evening


Do you happen to have Kaleidescape Strato as a source? That is pretty much unsusable with the new FW in my system. It works perfect with the previous FW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
549 Posts
I've installed it on a VW5000 and almost everything is working perfectly, just a couple of random frame with noticeable yellow cast in the whole evening
Well, the update worked with some sources but not all of them. Sky receiver had no problems but my Zappiti video player had serious (timing) issues.
Wondered at first why Patrick did not response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
413 Posts
Over the weekend I received a few reports of issues with the 080919 release for dropouts. On the other hand most are saying it works for them. So FPGA is close but not perfect.

While the CAD tools said the new FPGA had good timing, the tools are not perfect. Patrick is on vacation but will return on Thursday and can work on the FPGA timing then.

Anyone having an issue with 080919, please revert to an earlier release that works for you until we can get a release with a better FPGA posted.
Just to add to this, I noticed that with 080919 the Nvidia Shield TV (using 6' Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed cable) will exhibit dropouts when set to 4K60 4:2:2, but not when set to 4K60 4:2:0 (or anything 4K24). This wasn't the case in previous releases. Benefits of 080919 outweigh this issue for me, so not reverting, just wanted to give you another data point to potentially test with.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,657 Posts
I finally watched a few movies all of the way through since I installed the update. WOW! pretty much sums it up. The RS4500, when compared to other JVC projectors, doesn't have the same contrast levels. That may be true on some test patterns but when watching real world movies, you would be hard pressed to tell.

The combination of the RS4500/Lumagen/Panamorph is one heck of a combination. Consider me more than pleasantly pleased!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,626 Posts
I think there may be something wrong with my “system”, because with Display Max Light set to 700-800 results in the picture being way way way too bright, with blown out colors and blacks. I am finding I need to add an extra “0” to your numbers, and it looks fine.

I settled on 6,000, and it looks good, but I am sure there is room for improvement.

Is this normal?

Edit: I am using HDR2020 output, no 1D or 3D LUT calibrations, and the LG OLED Dynamic Contrast setting is Off.
With the output Colorspace = HDR2020, you are doing tone mapping twice (in the Pro and the in projector/TV). This is not a good situation.

However, some have made it work but turning down the projector/TV tone mapping and setting Max Light to the 2000 to 3000 range. If you do not turn down the projector/TV tone mapping you really need the Max Light at 10000 - the full HDR range since that is likely what the projector/TV is assuming.

If you can turn the projector/TV's tone mapping down enough to be able to use Max Light in the 2000 range the Pro can do some tone mapping for content mastered to 3000 nits and higher.

That said there are some tricks you can do with a calibration to partially diminsh the projector/TV's tone mapping. I have some ideas I plan to test (just bought a LG OLED for this and other testing). Kris Deering has some tricks for this case as well that he could do if you hire him to calibrate.

In general projectors should have output Colorspace = SDR2020. If a TV does not allow the same light output for SDR input mode as for HDR input mode, it may be best to set Pro output Colorspace = HDR2020. In this case you might find double tone mapping to have issues and the only choice then would be to turn off the Radiance Pro tone mapping and use the TVs tone mapping. Or the above balancing the Pro and TV tone mapping may work best. If you are like many and are happy with the light output of your TV in SDR2020 mode, then you would set up as I have discussed, as shown in the Radiance Pro manual and the set-up slide set.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
Well, the update worked with some sources but not all of them. Sky receiver had no problems but my Zappiti video player had serious (timing) issues.
Wondered at first why Patrick did not response.
I've got many Dune (Pro 4K) which, I suppose, are similar, if not equal, to Zappiti player. Maybe is the way they are connected to. All my player go into the receiver and then the receiver goes to Radiance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
549 Posts
I've got many Dune (Pro 4K) which, I suppose, are similar, if not equal, to Zappiti player. Maybe is the way they are connected to. All my player go into the receiver and then the receiver goes to Radiance
No, all of my sources go directly into the Lumagen as recommended. No problems except last firmware. Back to old firmware. No problems.

So the conclusion is obvious... firmware bug.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
Does anybody have experience using the Lumagen auto aspect function with a Control4 set up? My needs are fairly simple. Currently I do not use auto aspect, and when I am watching a 2.35 aspect ratio movie I use the Control4 remote to activate a macro, which zooms my Sony 5000 lens and removes my masking panels. When I am watching a 1.78 aspect ratio movie I use the Control4 remote, manually, to activate another macro, which zooms out the Sony 5000 lens and puts the side masking panels back in place.

This isn’t exactly a hardship, but it would be nice to use a serial cable between the radiance Pro and the Control4 HC 800 to automate this process. Is this easy to do? Or, to put it another way, does the Control4 serial driver allow use of a customized macro?

I have seen other posts that are several years old that say the serial driver is limited and to stack and IP driver on top of the serial driver, but I am not entirely clear how that would work. Any help would be appreciated!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,440 Posts
Re: the new firmware:

For me, the left arrow shape and transition values are broken for both high and low - setting either to one extreme or the other has no impact on the image - zero.

Ratio, gamma, and black seems to work

The broken shape and transition issue exists for dtm on or off - doesn’t matter.

EDIT: perhaps not broken but certain titles reflect no changes, other the changes are very subtle...while the idea of finer changes is good, perhaps you need many more steps than 0-7 or 0-15 for shape and transition accordingly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,582 Posts
Re: the new firmware:

For me, the left arrow shape and transition values are broken for both high and low - setting either to one extreme or the other has no impact on the image - zero.

Ratio, gamma, and black seems to work

The broken shape and transition issue exists for dtm on or off - doesn’t matter.

EDIT: perhaps not broken but certain titles reflect no changes, other the changes are very subtle...while the idea of finer changes is good, perhaps you need many more steps than 0-7 or 0-15 for shape and transition accordingly
Personally I would go the other way. I'd like to eventually see shape and transition removed entirely. I can't help but think that for any given measured peak brightness and black floor, there should be an optimal shape, transition and ratio value (for both high and low scenes) that a) maximises the nit-for-nit range, b) minimises highlight compression, and c) provides the smoothest transition between the two, without the need for more dial turning.

I appreciate we need these controls now because DTM is still in something of a testing phase, but I'd like to hope we are converging on a future point where the user enters their measured peak brightness (the actual measurement not a multiple thereof), perhaps selects a display type, and is done - maybe retaining gamma and black level controls to allow seasoning to taste.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,902 Posts
The latest software is also not working with my Sony995ES. Loss of HDMI connection, green screen.... Back to old firmware.

Do not install if you own a Sony projector!
It seems very stable on my 995, but only have been using Strato/Alto/costar and DISH as sources since updating. SJ
 

·
aka jfinnie
Joined
·
4,235 Posts
Personally I would go the other way. I'd like to eventually see shape and transition removed entirely. I can't help but think that for any given measured peak brightness and black floor, there should be a optimal shape, transition and ratio value (for both high and low scenes) that a) maximises the nit-for-nit range, b) minimises highlight compression, and c) provides the smoothest transition between the two, without the need for more dial turning.

I appreciate we need these controls now because DTM is still in something of a testing phase, but I'd like to hope we are converging on a future point where the user enters their measured peak brightness (the actual measurement not a multiple thereof), perhaps selects a display type, and is done - maybe retaining gamma and black level controls to allow seasoning to taste.
Agree, I'd very much prefer eventually the work of converting "real observed nits" into whatever internal parameters are necessary for driving the various bits of internal machinery to be done by the Lumagen. Apart from anything else this should (from a user's point of view) eliminate the need to consider settings changes between releases - the algorithms would be expected to do the best job with the observed physical capabilities of the system.

I can see how we got here given the evolution in HDR mapping over what has been a relatively short period of time, but I do think that a rationalisation would be helpful. It seems like now there are basically two controls of most significance - the Display Max Light and the Low Ratio setting - whose relationship to peak white is becoming reasonably defined to the peak white performance, so this is almost a UI thing now. Plus I guess the black control (and maybe gamma) if you have a raised black floor in room. And maybe having all the necessary controls living in the same place. I'm not really sure what the reasoning is still for the low ratio, for example, still being input related, while DML isn't.

Within the confines of the current setup; I'd personally currently find it more useful if on the "left arrow" menu you had quick direct access to DML and low ratio (and if there isn't space, for it to nudge shape and trans off the list). With the low ratio showing the relevant calculation whether or not you're in DTM mode (instead of having to toggle DTM to get it to display).
 

·
Rise & Grind
Joined
·
575 Posts
It seems very stable on my 995, but only have been using Strato/Alto/costar and DISH as sources since updating. SJ
For me...Strato, new FW and Sony 5000 are not playing well together at all. Previous FW its rock solid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eventidal

·
Registered
Joined
·
386 Posts
After watching 6 minutes of The Meg and trying for two hours to figure out how to prevent burned out highlights and clipped colors (including a complete factory reset), I went back to 072119.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
New firmware did not get on well with my Zappiti. Worked initially then consistent and significant distortion and signal loss even after rebooting both machines. Using JVC X7000. Back to 0421 for me again.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,253 Posts
Personally I would go the other way. I'd like to eventually see shape and transition removed entirely. I can't help but think that for any given measured peak brightness and black floor, there should be an optimal shape, transition and ratio value (for both high and low scenes) that a) maximises the nit-for-nit range, b) minimises highlight compression, and c) provides the smoothest transition between the two, without the need for more dial turning.

I appreciate we need these controls now because DTM is still in something of a testing phase, but I'd like to hope we are converging on a future point where the user enters their measured peak brightness (the actual measurement not a multiple thereof), perhaps selects a display type, and is done - maybe retaining gamma and black level controls to allow seasoning to taste.
Agree completely. I tell all my clients to just leave them alone. There is absolutely no reason to mess with shape/transition at this point. Most people don't even understand what they do and just start randomly cycling them up and down. They really don't need to be touched. There are other settings in the menu I would eliminate as well, but Jim is always nervous about getting rid of features.

After watching 6 minutes of The Meg and trying for two hours to figure out how to prevent burned out highlights and clipped colors (including a complete factory reset), I went back to 072119.
Sounds like you have some setup issues with both the projector and Lumagen. I offer consulting and setup services for the Lumagen so reach out if you need a hand.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,253 Posts
Stability issues definitely sound Sony related. I installed the latest on several JVC's over the weekend and used it on mine with zero issues. I have one client that had an issue with a JVC so far, others haven't said a peep. I'm sure Jim and Pat will have a look soon to try and dial in the FPGA a bit more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,626 Posts
Concerning comments on removing Shape and Transition:

We have for several months been considering adding an "Expert" mode for HDR tone mapping now that we have Dynamic Tone Mapping working so well. With Static Tone Mapping all the control parameters made sense to expose to allow users to tweak the settings for different movies. Now with DTM both Kris and I are finding that changing them does not improve the image quality and can certainly hurt image quality poorly adjusted when using DTM.

As an aside DTM is now at the stage that we are recommending you set DLev = 8. This ignores the Static Metadata for DTM. This helps improve dark scenes like those in Blade Runner 2049 since blending with the STM MaxCLL is not holding the scene MaxCLL up to a higher level and preventing the scene from getting as dark as it should.

Note that a slight change to Shape or Tran can help a particular scene, but it would then hurt other content. We are finding the defaults give excellent image quality for all content. For an Expert Mode we would not remove the settings, but would only show them in Expert Mode to prevent those who do not know how they work from hurting image quality.

We will likely change the default Low-set Ratio to 24 based on a typical projector and what we are seeing with the current DTM implementation. However, 15 still looks excellent and gives a bit more headroom for dark scenes, but 24 gives a brighter image (to an appropriate level for dark scenes IMO).

Several have noted now that DTM settings required are only CMS1->HDR Mapping->Max Light (for very bright scenes), and the Low-set Ratio (to adjust effective-display-max-light for dark scenes). We agree with this assessment.

If we add the expert mode, the defaults would be (as of today):

- Max Light in CMS1->HDR Mapping menu as it is now. Set by user
- Low-Set Ratio in the left parameter menu. Shows effective-max-light. Set by user
- DTM would always be on (but not shown). No reason to use STM anymore
- DLev = 8 (but not shown)
- Ratio = 24 for Low-set (shown), and 0 for High-set (not shown)
- Shape = current defaults (not shown)
- Tran = current defaults (not shown)
- Gamma = 0 (not shown)
- Black = 0 (not shown)
- Crossover value is not used for DTM (not shown)
- Default Max is not needed for DTM (not shown)

In "Expert mode" we would likely have the same look as in the current release.

Not in a rush to do this but it makes sense.

===============

I gave some suggestions for Max Light and Low-Set Effective Max Light in a previous post. Those still hold but we have refined the suggestions as shown below. Note that the following recommendations are for projectors:

Enable DTM

Set DLev = 8

Set Max Light in the range of 5 to 6 times the measured white level in nits. You can extend this range to 4 to 8 times measured white if you prefer but we are finding 5 to 6 is optimal. Using five gives slightly more brightness and 6 gives slightly more color saturation

Set the Low-set Effective Max Light to two times the measured white level in nits. You can vary this a bit but stay close to 2x. This will mean Low-set Ratio is typically in the range of 15 to 28. The effective max light is now shown even in DTM mode when on the Ratio column

Leave other HDR Tone Mapping parameters at default values.

=======

As a side note, I had Max Light at 350 to 400, and Low-set Ratio = 15, for STM, and now for DTM I have Max Light = 350 to 400 and Ratio = 24 (but 15 still looks excellent). So while you might want to tweak Tone Mapping parameters I believe we have met our goal of "no required changes" from the STM settings for excellent performance with DTM. I know this audience will want to tweak, but I can assure our non-tweak customers that they do not need to change any Tone Mapping settings to get excellent results with DTM.

=======

I am planning to work with our LG OLED and hopefully come up with some recommendations for TVs.

=======

Again, thanks for all the praise for the new DTM version. We are thrilled with how positive the comments are. And for those with issues for the 080919 release, we hope to have a release with an improved FPGA this week.
 
5261 - 5280 of 8147 Posts
Top