[Surge2018]

Fair enough! Wish me luck, because (other than losing out on Yamaha's venue specific DSPs for music) the X6700H would appear to check all of the necessary boxes.

It definitely worked with my Denon 8500 in between the Lumagen and the Projector, I just had to frequently switch the Denon to another input, and then back to the Lumagen input whenever the picture mode would change. This gets annoying, fast.
There was also a slight but noticeable image quality degradation with the 8500 in the chain... which makes sense.

 

[Surge2018]

I remember reading that some owners of the Denon had some luck with dropouts by switching inputs around. It seemed the farther away the HDMI input was from the output the weaker the signal due to wiring issues. I have no idea if this is true or not but it had to due with longer wire tracers connecting to the HDMI chip. It's worth a try if you already have the Denon.

Denon recommends in the owners manual, at least for the 8500, to use the HDMI input closest to the output. So that’s HDMI 7 (or whatever the highest number is) as the input. Not sure if this would alleviate drop-outs, but it minimizes jitter. I use this input on the 8500 and don’t have any audio drop-outs. I’m sending audio only to the Denon from the Lumagen.

 

[Surge2018]

There is a DTM problem with certain content from Apple TV+, at least when viewed on Apple TV 4K. The image is very dark, and you can see that DTM is varying the image brightness within a scene at times. Examples are On the Rocks, with Bill Murray, and Amazing Stories (at least Episode 1), and Truth be Told. Not sure if this is due to how Apple TV handles Dolby Vision.
Apple TV+ has by far the best streaming audio and picture quality of Amazon, Netflix, HBO and iTunes, so not sure what’s going on.
I have to reduce my MaxLight by ~50% (from 1070 to around 600) and reduce DynPad from 5 to 2, to get the brightness to decent levels, and even then it’s not great — something “odd” is going on with the DTM.
Perhaps Jim or Kris can take a look at this content and let us know? Thanks

 

[jbrinegar]

There is a DTM problem with certain content from Apple TV+, at least when viewed on Apple TV 4K. The image is very dark, and you can see that DTM is varying the image brightness within a scene at times. Examples are On the Rocks, with Bill Murray, and Amazing Stories (at least Episode 1), and Truth be Told. Not sure if this is due to how Apple TV handles Dolby Vision.
Apple TV+ has by far the best streaming audio and picture quality of Amazon, Netflix, HBO and iTunes, so not sure what’s going on.
I have to reduce my MaxLight by ~50% (from 1070 to around 600) and reduce DynPad from 5 to 2, to get the brightness to decent levels, and even then it’s not great — something “odd” is going on with the DTM.
Perhaps Jim or Kris can take a look at this content and let us know? Thanks

Any specific scenes I can double check for you? I watched both shows and didn’t notice any issues. I’m using a multiplier of 6 for my global max light. (70 nits x 6=420 global max light). I’m using dyn pad 4.

 

[PeterLarsson]

There is a DTM problem with certain content from Apple TV+, at least when viewed on Apple TV 4K. The image is very dark, and you can see that DTM is varying the image brightness within a scene at times. Examples are On the Rocks, with Bill Murray, and Amazing Stories (at least Episode 1), and Truth be Told. Not sure if this is due to how Apple TV handles Dolby Vision.
Apple TV+ has by far the best streaming audio and picture quality of Amazon, Netflix, HBO and iTunes, so not sure what’s going on.
I have to reduce my MaxLight by ~50% (from 1070 to around 600) and reduce DynPad from 5 to 2, to get the brightness to decent levels, and even then it’s not great — something “odd” is going on with the DTM.
Perhaps Jim or Kris can take a look at this content and let us know? Thanks

Thanks! Now I am not alone. Use IT part 2 to serve as a really good example of that (purchased from iTunes) as well as The Equalizer (also an iTunes purchase). The overall picture is so dark and dull and lost of a lot of details that I have never ever been close to on UHD discs. I have compared scenes with my TV that supprt Dolby Vision and the picture is brighter with more details there. I can give some scene examples too if needed.

The thing is: since the latest firmware HDR has a new meaning to me. Not overall very much darker compared to SDR that was my impression before (alos after having JVC NX5 for more than 6 months before). So all in all very pleased with the DTM from Lumagen, a new HDR world so to speak. The only problem is the DV content from ATV that is converted into HDR10 and the processed by Lumagen. Some of the content - and a fex examples that I have mentioned - is exteremly dark. I can understand the intent and all that - but that should not include loss of details (as I can cleary see when comparing with the same movei however then in DV on my TV).

 

[Ash Sharma]

The only problem is the DV content from ATV that is converted into HDR10 and the processed by Lumagen. Some of the content - and a fex examples that I have mentioned - is exteremly dark. I can understand the intent and all that - but that should not include loss of details (as I can cleary see when comparing with the same movei however then in DV on my TV).

I recommend get a Roku Ultra as a second streamer... at least the previous version is not DV so uses HDR10

 

[Mike Garrett]

Thanks! Now I am not alone. Use IT part 2 to serve as a really good example of that (purchased from iTunes) as well as The Equalizer (also an iTunes purchase). The overall picture is so dark and dull and lost of a lot of details that I have never ever been close to on UHD discs. I have compared scenes with my TV that supprt Dolby Vision and the picture is brighter with more details there. I can give some scene examples too if needed.

The thing is: since the latest firmware HDR has a new meaning to me. Not overall very much darker compared to SDR that was my impression before (alos after having JVC NX5 for more than 6 months before). So all in all very pleased with the DTM from Lumagen, a new HDR world so to speak. The only problem is the DV content from ATV that is converted into HDR10 and the processed by Lumagen. Some of the content - and a fex examples that I have mentioned - is exteremly dark. I can understand the intent and all that - but that should not include loss of details (as I can cleary see when comparing with the same movei however then in DV on my TV).

If the streaming version looked way darker than the UHD disc, then it is not the projector. Also if set up properly, the JVC is not very far off from the Lumagen DTM, until you hit a tough scene. In other words, for 90% to 95% of the movie, you would not see much difference.

 

[*Harry*]

I'm certainly not saying this is proven - I'm unaware that anyone has hooked up a Linear PSU to a Lumagen, played something like J-test through it and shown measureable reduction in effects on a connected piece of audio equipment.

Issues may not of course be limited to the effects of jitter - it's possible that switching noise from a PSU might couple into the HDMI output, and then might couple into the analogue hardware in an audio processor. Again though, without test and measurement, these are all just "mights".

For what it's worth; for video, while I think it almost certainly would be measureable if you looked hard enough (most things are), I'm certainly not altogether sure this would cross the threshold of being visible to the eye.. Would need the ABX testing above to see if you were crossing a threshold into visibility.

Unfortunately the testing seldom happens

Problem: All of these special linear power supplies look very expensive and no one knows, if the expected impovement will occur in the own home theater setup.

If someone wants to quickly find out, if such a "non-switching" power supply is voodoo, or really could have advantages in his own setup, just grab a fully charged 12V car battery and use it as power supply. There is no better "clean" DC power source than a battery. But since the Radiance Pro's 12V input range is unknown and fully charged batteries have more than 13V, simply connect two high-current diodes in series (e.g. P1000 ) to achieve a voltage drop close to 12V

Any 55Ah ... 60Ah battery should last many hours - time enough to check or measure for audio / video "jitter". Or you just sit down and listen to music / watch a film ... but don't forget to put it back in your car ... recharged ...

😄

 

[PeterLarsson]

If the streaming version looked way darker than the UHD disc, then it is not the projector. Also if set up properly, the JVC is not very far off from the Lumagen DTM, until you hit a tough scene. In other words, for 90% to 95% of the movie, you would not see much difference.

Thanks for your answer, but I really dont agree. I have had a JVC NX5 for almsot 8 months and now a Sony VW790. NX5 was in general the best solution for DTM, buit not always comepared to Sony VW790, but i my opinion doesnt stand a chance against Lumagen. As I have told before, my expereince with HDR have up to the date of starting to use Lumagen been that the pictire overall is much darker and lack of details in dark areas. That is not my impression anymore (except for some material on ATV). So I think it is quite a substansial difference between JVC and Lumagen DTM. But no ppoint on arguing about that, most important one is happy with its solution and I am not right now with content streamed form ATV.

 

[Mark Burton]

Thanks for your answer, but I really dont agree. I have had a JVC NX5 for almsot 8 months and now a Sony VW790. NX5 was in general the best solution for DTM, buit not always comepared to Sony VW790, but i my opinion doesnt stand a chance against Lumagen. As I have told before, my expereince with HDR have up to the date of starting to use Lumagen been that the pictire overall is much darker and lack of details in dark areas. That is not my impression anymore (except for some material on ATV). So I think it is quite a substansial difference between JVC and Lumagen DTM. But no ppoint on arguing about that, most important one is happy with its solution and I am not right now with content streamed form ATV.

Hi Peter, if you give me some examples of some “free stuff” on appleTV that you are struggling with, I’ll check mine as I have a Sony 760.

 

[PeterLarsson]

Hi Peter, if you give me some examples of some “free stuff” on appleTV that you are struggling with, I’ll check mine as I have a Sony 760.

The two examples I brought up yesterday is unfortunately not for free since it is purchased movies from iTunes: IT part II and The Equalizer (1)

 

[bobof]

Thanks for your answer, but I really dont agree. I have had a JVC NX5 for almsot 8 months and now a Sony VW790. NX5 was in general the best solution for DTM, buit not always comepared to Sony VW790, but i my opinion doesnt stand a chance against Lumagen. As I have told before, my expereince with HDR have up to the date of starting to use Lumagen been that the pictire overall is much darker and lack of details in dark areas. That is not my impression anymore (except for some material on ATV). So I think it is quite a substansial difference between JVC and Lumagen DTM. But no ppoint on arguing about that, most important one is happy with its solution and I am not right now with content streamed form ATV.

I'm not sure if it will help or shed any light, might just be a waste of your time; if you want to look into it there re a couple of things to bear in mind maybe.

The AppleTV with Dolby vision outputs dumb metatdata and converts internally in the AppleTV to HDR10. There was a time when a lot of DV was being converted to HDR10 with metadata that would change every 30s or 5m05s, which would cause some problems for the Lumagen (jumping luminance and audio drops). In recent times I think I've seen some titles just have fixed 10000 nit metadata or 4000 nit, even though I guess they never get near that.

The Lumagen does pay some attention for something to the metadata, I'm not sure exactly what but it at least seems to impact the clipping point on some test images. I could see some logic that an unusually high metadata might impact brightness, but I don't know enough about the internals.

If you wanted to try and work out a bit more what is going on, you might try looking at what the metadata would appear to be set to (you can do this by pressing OK on the Lumagen remote while a title is playing, until you get to the screen with MaxCLL info) and making note of whether you see any difference for the bright vs dull content (I assume you have content in both camps on your system?)

There are some settings in the HDR settings for the input that allow you to override the metadata, you might play with that to see if it improves things for you.

The other thing that springs to mind as being worth checking is that some of the HDR settings in the Lumagen are per-input, so if you set up your HDR on one device and then switched to AppleTV, you might not be using the same settings.

And of course, it is also possible the content is just mastered badly...

As I say, the above is maybe interesting depending on how you're wired, or maybe just frustrating. I'm sure others will be interested in what you find if you do note any patterns between content / input you think is too dark, settings, reported data, etc.

 

[PeterLarsson]

Great input @bobof always!

I am aware of that one can set different settings per input for HDR, but not 100% so much aware of what the different settings really mean. I understand the the ratio is basically increase the dark areas a bit and that I right now set to 1,5x of my nits - however on the output side. Also the Dynpad I understand is the higher value the more dynamics in a specific given scene, Also that set for teh output.

I also have the generic value of MaxCall 4000.

I must admit that the Lumagen user manual is not at all clear on how the different setting affect or impact the picture especially not the service mode. So when one find a problem like now ith ATV I dont really understand how to use the knobs to get it right if I put it like that.

But at the same time: UHD discs look better than never. I do not feel the urge to do anything there so that is good

 

[docrog]

I know that this may sound like sacrilege, but is it possible for to temporarily make use of the Radiance Pro purely for its upscaling and edge enhancement capabilities, bypassing/disabling any DTM or color/gray scale processing?

 

[Mike Garrett]

Thanks for your answer, but I really dont agree. I have had a JVC NX5 for almsot 8 months and now a Sony VW790. NX5 was in general the best solution for DTM, buit not always comepared to Sony VW790, but i my opinion doesnt stand a chance against Lumagen. As I have told before, my expereince with HDR have up to the date of starting to use Lumagen been that the pictire overall is much darker and lack of details in dark areas. That is not my impression anymore (except for some material on ATV). So I think it is quite a substansial difference between JVC and Lumagen DTM. But no ppoint on arguing about that, most important one is happy with its solution and I am not right now with content streamed form ATV.

Your opinion is different than Kris Deerings and I believe he knows how to set up a projector to get the best out of it. Same for the Lumagen. Not saying that the Lumagen is not better, because it is.

 

[bobof]

I am aware of that one can set different settings per input for HDR, but not 100% so much aware of what the different settings really mean. I understand the the ratio is basically increase the dark areas a bit and that I right now set to 1,5x of my nits - however on the output side. Also the Dynpad I understand is the higher value the more dynamics in a specific given scene, Also that set for teh output.

I have my DML set to be around 5.5-6x measured peak nits, and then my ratio set to indicate about 2x the measured peak nits. I think that is more or less in line with recommendations. I'm not quite sure off the top of my head what 1.5x would do for ratio. I have around 100nits on screen.
I don't think I recall finding my image too dark; though there is some content that seems to be very "murky" in look. I'm trying to remember what was the last thing I saw that stood out as not being great; but I flipped to watching it in HDR10 via the Shield and didn't think it was any better, so just ended up thinking it was a bad bit of content.
I can't recall seeing it, but perhaps if you post all the details of how you have your image set up and Lumagen settings, how many on screen peak nits you actually measure, etc and some timestamps in particular titles you might get some more useful info back.

i also have the generic value of MaxCall 4000.

Do you mean the setting, or some piece of content reporting this on the info screen?
I >think< that the UI setting for this only comes into play if there is no metadata at all from the player, unless you change the option alongside it to make it always use the value instead of the player metadata. I can't remember the exact names of the options at the mo as I'm not at home in front of it.

I'd be interested to try a scene or two that you suggest and see what my setup looks like. I'm by no means saying mine is 100% either in all respects - I'm just a budding amateur - but I'm generally satisfied except for the odd thing I'm pretty sure is baked into the content.

 

[bobof]

I know that this may sound like sacrilege, but is it possible for to temporarily make use of the Radiance Pro purely for its upscaling and edge enhancement capabilities, bypassing/disabling any DTM or color/gray scale processing?

You've got several memories, if you haven't committed all of them to other functions you could set one memory up to not perform any colour processing. You'd need to configure a CMS appropriately. You could then switch memories to go between Lumagen DTM with SDR out and the HDR10 data passed through so the projector would have to do TM before display.

 

[PeterLarsson]

I have my DML set to be around 5.5-6x measured peak nits, and then my ratio set to indicate about 2x the measured peak nits. I think that is more or less in line with recommendations. I'm not quite sure off the top of my head what 1.5x would do for ratio. I have around 100nits on screen.
I don't think I recall finding my image too dark; though there is some content that seems to be very "murky" in look. I'm trying to remember what was the last thing I saw that stood out as not being great; but I flipped to watching it in HDR10 via the Shield and didn't think it was any better, so just ended up thinking it was a bad bit of content.
I can't recall seeing it, but perhaps if you post all the details of how you have your image set up and Lumagen settings, how many on screen peak nits you actually measure, etc and some timestamps in particular titles you might get some more useful info back.


Do you mean the setting, or some piece of content reporting this on the info screen?
I >think< that the UI setting for this only comes into play if there is no metadata at all from the player, unless you change the option alongside it to make it always use the value instead of the player metadata. I can't remember the exact names of the options at the mo as I'm not at home in front of it.

I'd be interested to try a scene or two that you suggest and see what my setup looks like. I'm by no means saying mine is 100% either in all respects - I'm just a budding amateur - but I'm generally satisfied except for the odd thing I'm pretty sure is baked into the content.

Perfect - I actually accomodated the lates suggestions from Jim in the latest firmware, but I have not tried to have separate seetings for different inputs, I wil tru and see if the ATV DTM improves

Your opinion is different than Kris Deerings and I believe he knows how to set up a projector to get the best out of it. Same for the Lumagen. Not saying that the Lumagen is not better, because it is.

Well I had my JVC NX5 professionally calibrated for eight months, and of course the leap between NX5 and VW790 is quite big, and NX5 was nativley better than VW790 on DTM, but I am a bit surprised to hear that JVCs DTM is close to Lumagens. But of coursde Kris is entitled to that view and perpsective as well as I am for mine .

 

[Applemike68]

Hello all,

I'm trying to upload the new firmware. But my USB connection says driver out of date. The right-click update driver does not work. Code 28... Any ideas?

 

[docrog]

You've got several memories, if you haven't committed all of them to other functions you could set one memory up to not perform any colour processing. You'd need to configure a CMS appropriately. You could then switch memories to go between Lumagen DTM with SDR out and the HDR10 data passed through so the projector would have to do TM before display.

Thanks, as always, for your response. However, your solution "cookbook" is WAY above my paygrade since all memories (etc.) were set up professionally. Having recently changed the bulb/lamp assembly, I'd prefer that my upcoming PJ calibrator NOT disturb the previous RP calibration which was performed by another professional. I plan to make temporary use of the DTM and HDR/SDR calibrations in the NX7 until the original RP calibrator can come to my home at some point in the future. I'm able to completely cut the RP out of the video chain, but I would truly prefer to make use of the RP's excellent 1080p -> UHD upscaling and other edge enhancement capabilities.