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I think I have found the problem to not be able to get hold go each color in CMS0 since I compared CMS0 with CMS1 and found out that color gamut was 17*17*17 in CMS0 and 8 points in CMS1 and then all the primary.and secondary colors are there, problem solved.

However, please take a look at the below pics, even if incoming signal is BT709 and auto version is enabled still output in BT2020 and I can figure out why the auto conversion is not working properly.

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Guys, need some help. I am getting no picture through my Lumagen Radiance Pro 4446-18G which I recently added to my setup.

Here is My setup

Nvidia Shield/Roku/BD Player -> JBL SDP 55 --> Input 1 - Lumagen - Output 2 -> JVC Projector.

All I am getting is black screen. Audio is working, I can see the Lumagen menu but no video. I have already tried switching sources, rebooting source, prepro and Lumagen with no success. If I bypass the Lumagen and connect the source directly to Prepro, it works and similarly if I connect the source to Input 1 of Lumagen, I get the picture.

Clearly the issue is between Prepro and Lumagen but I am not sure how to troubleshoot or fix it. My Lumagen was setup by Chad B and I am going to coordinate some time where he can help me troubleshoot it but I thought maybe I should check here in the forum too. It was working fine when he did the demo but somehow once I restarted the system, all I am getting is this.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or tips!


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Bypassing prepro

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Based on your screen shot, output 1 is audio only. Try output 4.

John

Edit: I misread the output you are using - output 2 should work.
 

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How long is your HDMI cable between the prepro and the Lumagen? Recommended is 2 mtr. It is stated that shorter cables may not work. But probably you should get an intermittend picture orso so probably this is not your problem.

Not sure, but you have 4096x2160 selected. Shouldn't that be 3840x2160? Or do you have a Sony and use 17:9 as output?

Snippet:
Short HDMI cables that are 1 meter (3 feet) long can cause problems. Most HDMI transmitter chips have a built in equalizer circuit that boosts the signal level to compensate for losses in the cable. A cable that is too short, can deliver a signal that is too strong, and overwhelm the input of the HDMI receiver chip. If you have short HDMI cables and are experiencing intermittent problems, a longer cable can make a more reliable connection. It’s a good practice to use good quality generic HDMI cables that are a minimum length of 2 meters (6 foot) long.
 

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Good idea showing the info screen. If you can see it, then the issue is usually between the Lumagen and the source. If you can’t, more likely between the Lumagen and the display.... SJ
 

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In the case of Xbox Series consoles, they support setting a 1080p120 or 1440p120 system output on HDMI 2.0b when the display supports it. 4k120 requires HDMI 2.1. My understanding is PlayStation 5 is more complicated, with 120hz modes being game dependent, and not always supported at 1080p.
 

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... However, please take a look at the below pics, even if incoming signal is BT709 and auto version is enabled still output in BT2020 and I can figure out why the auto conversion is not working properly.
As I just sent in an email, and for the benefit of others:

The Radiance Pro doing exactly what you programmed it to do.

If you want the CMS0 (used for SDR) to output Rec Bt.709, you need to change the Output.CMSs.CMS0.Colorspace = SDR709. You have it selected as “SDR2020” which means it outputs Rec 2020.

Make sure to Save any changes you want to be permanent.
 

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Make sure "2020 < -- > 601/709 = Auto Convert, and HDR Flag = Off, for both CMS0 and CMS1.

The Radiance Pro will convert data from one format to display correctly in the other. In our Lumagen Demo Theater using the JVC RS4500 on a Stewart Studio Tek 130, I have CMS0=CMS1=SDR2020 for output and it works great. This also allows one calibration for both SDR and HDR content.
This is actually exacly what I wanted to achieve, one calibration for BT2020 and then CMS0 to auto convert to 709 when receiving a SDR signal - so frankly dont follow the reasoning behind "it does what is programmed for" it doesn't auto convert in my case,
 

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This is actually exacly what I wanted to achieve, one calibration for BT2020 and then CMS0 to auto convert to 709(Why?) when receiving a SDR signal - so frankly dont follow the reasoning behind "it does what is programmed for" it doesn't auto convert in my case,
You have setup the Lumagen to output SDR BT2020. When it receives BT2020 signal it outputs BT2020 signal. When it receives Rec709 signal it auto converts it to BT2020 signal.

IMO that is just what you need if you want to use only BT2020 calibration in the projector. You dont want to convert anything to Rec709(smaller colorspace), SDR signal is already Rec709.

Or is it something else you want to achieve? Maybe you can more clear of how you want it to work so others can help.
 

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You have setup the Lumagen to output SDR BT2020. When it receives BT2020 signal it outputs BT2020 signal. When it receives Rec709 signal it auto converts it to BT2020 signal.

IMO that is just what you need if you want to use only BT2020 calibration in the projector. You dont want to convert anything to Rec709(smaller colorspace), SDR signal is already Rec709.

Or is it something else you want to achieve? Maybe you can more clear of how you want it to work so others can help.
What I understood after reading Jims recommendation is that he now recommend only one colorspace for both SDR and HDR and that is of course BT2020. I did exactly as described - turning off auto convert when calibrating (pointed to CMS0) and calibrate BT2020 and that is just what we did yesterday. After completion I should set auto convert back and copy CMS0 to CMS1, which I did to be able to use only one calibration for both SDR and HDR.

My assumption was that if the receiving in signal is 709 SDR Lumagen would then convert the calibrated BT2020 for both CMS0 and 1 to BT709 when receiving that signal in CMS0. That has been my understanding the whole time that after Jims recommendation (shown below) that this was the result. What good would it be if the in signal is BT709 SDR and get that converted to BT2020? That would not be good I assume or that how that the whole idea is built on?

Make sure "2020 < -- > 601/709 = Auto Convert, and HDR Flag = Off, for both CMS0 and CMS1.

The Radiance Pro will convert data from one format to display correctly in the other. In our Lumagen Demo Theater using the JVC RS4500 on a Stewart Studio Tek 130, I have CMS0=CMS1=SDR2020 for output and it works great. This also allows one calibration for both SDR and HDR content.

So to conclude: I was after Jims recommendation as shown below under the impression that Calibrate to BT2020 for CMS0 and copy that to CMS1 and then you can use that one calibration for both SDR and HDR. So if receiving a 709 signal would the colors and greyscale be correct if Lumagen converts that to BT2020. If that was the whole idea then I have misunderstood the whole concept.

Thanks a lot for explaining!
 

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So to conclude: I was after Jims recommendation as shown below under the impression that Calibrate to BT2020 for CMS0 and copy that to CMS1 and then you can use that one calibration for both SDR and HDR. So if receiving a 709 signal would the colors and greyscale be correct if Lumagen converts that to BT2020. If that was the whole idea then I have misunderstood the whole concept.

Thanks a lot for explaining!
That was the whole idea. You do a single BT2020 calibration and Lumagen always outputs BT2020. What ever comes in, be it HDR/SDR/709/2020, Lumagen auto converts it correctly to SDR BT2020 output.

So it doesn't "convert the calibration" if thats what you meant, it auto converts the incoming video signal to the chosen output colorspace.
 

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Thanks a million, I must be seen as the dumbest in Sweden right now, I totally misunderstood the whole concept.

The question that I ask myself if not the wider color gamut and the calibrated greyscale for bt2020 could be "distorted" when converting bt709 to bt2020? I mean my display Sony VW790 only support perhaps around 75--80% of the bt2020 gamut, Will the colors really look accurate by doing the conversion between 709 to 2020?

Thanks again!
 

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Thanks a million, I must be seen as the dumbest in Sweden right now, I totally misunderstood the whole concept.

The question that I ask myself if not the wider color gamut and the calibrated greyscale for bt2020 could be "distorted" when converting bt709 to bt2020? I mean my display Sony VW790 only support perhaps around 75--80% of the bt2020 gamut, Will the colors really look accurate by doing the conversion between 709 to 2020?

Thanks again!
No problem! :) BT709 only uses small part of the BT2020 colorspace so it fits nicely inside it. I am sure that the Lumagen can handle that conversion without any distorsion or other problem, that's one of the things its made for. --> Also read the disclaimers couple posts down, it might not be so perfect I thought.
 

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Will the colors really look accurate by doing the conversion between 709 to 2020?
IMHO the colors will look "accurate" because you won't know what they are supposed to be unless you meter them. That is what happens when you look at BT2020 films since the projector can't do either BT2020 (not close) or P3 space in BT2020 (closer but still not there). This is the compromise. You might want to attempt to calibrate the P3 space within the BT2020 cube. This will get you a lot closer to "accurate".
 

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IMHO the colors will look "accurate" because you won't know what they are supposed to be unless you meter them. That is what happens when you look at BT2020 films since the projector can't do either BT2020 (not close) or P3 space in BT2020 (closer but still not there). This is the compromise. You might want to attempt to calibrate the P3 space within the BT2020 cube. This will get you a lot closer to "accurate".
If he has calibrated BT2020, why wouldn't a smaller BT709 be shown correctly since it fits in this colorspace and the projectors colorspace? Do you think a DCI-P3 calibration would make a difference that can be seen?
 

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Thanks a million, I must be seen as the dumbest in Sweden right now, I totally misunderstood the whole concept.

The question that I ask myself if not the wider color gamut and the calibrated greyscale for bt2020 could be "distorted" when converting bt709 to bt2020? I mean my display Sony VW790 only support perhaps around 75--80% of the bt2020 gamut, Will the colors really look accurate by doing the conversion between 709 to 2020?

Thanks again!
Level of success depends on how well your "2020" display mode (+ optionally 3DLUT) tracks 2020, and then 709 within 2020.
If you've used a 3DLUT to map 2020 to the display then it should be pretty good, though you won't have 3DLUT control points exactly on the 709 gamut edges, so you may lose a bit of absolute accuracy there.
If you haven't got a 3DLUT then you will be at the total mercy of the tracking of the projector display mode. Which may or may not be great.

You can either trust that it tracks 709-in-2020 well, or measure it. When you get as far into it as measuring whether 2020 mode tracks 709-in-2020 well, I think you almost might as well be doing a proper 3DLUT for each if you're doing a 3DLUT for 2020. That then gives you a bit more flexibility with display modes. On my projector, for instance, the colour shifts a bit as the iris opens, and so if you want it as accurate as possible you need separate calibrations for the two iris positions.
 

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If he has calibrated BT2020, why wouldn't a smaller BT709 be shown correctly since it fits in this colorspace and the projectors colorspace? Do you think a DCI-P3 calibration would make a difference that can be seen?
Yes, BT709 is well within the 2020 colorspace but the software has to make a LOT more choices/compromises to get the 2020 space in shape overall. Limiting its choices to a smaller area gives you better accuracy even though it isn't accurate. I have found that you can nail a Rec709 calibration (until drift) in these units doing it alone. Anything else is a compromise so at least my attitude is to get the effective space as close as I can which is P3 in 2020 for the majority of 4K content.
 

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How long is your HDMI cable between the prepro and the Lumagen? Recommended is 2 mtr. It is stated that shorter cables may not work. But probably you should get an intermittend picture orso so probably this is not your problem.

Not sure, but you have 4096x2160 selected. Shouldn't that be 3840x2160? Or do you have a Sony and use 17:9 as output?

Snippet:
Short HDMI cables that are 1 meter (3 feet) long can cause problems. Most HDMI transmitter chips have a built in equalizer circuit that boosts the signal level to compensate for losses in the cable. A cable that is too short, can deliver a signal that is too strong, and overwhelm the input of the HDMI receiver chip. If you have short HDMI cables and are experiencing intermittent problems, a longer cable can make a more reliable connection. It’s a good practice to use good quality generic HDMI cables that are a minimum length of 2 meters (6 foot) long.

I don't think its the cable as it was working without issue when the calibration was done.

My Setup is JVC RS2000 with DCR lens and anamorphic screen.
 

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I don't think its the cable as it was working without issue when the calibration was done.

My Setup is JVC RS2000 with DCR lens and anamorphic screen.
If you can clearly see the lumagen menu cable is not your issue, at least at the current rate/resolution.

I have a similar setup to you with older JVC (RS540). I do have the sister product to the SDP-55, the AudioControls Maestro. I also use a Shield TV for streaming (current gen) and use a Kodi device. I have seen this issue from time to time with both sources, it's mostly when I've been messing with the setup. I sometimes have to unplug/replug some of the HDMI interfaces. First I would see if the menu or the volume display on the SDP 55 comes up when you have the blank screen. I have mine turned off so that the aspect ratio doesn't jump back to 16:9 when adjusting volume so I have to turn mine on. That will tell you if you're good to the JBL. If that fails, I would unplug BOTH ends of the cable between the JBL and the Lumagen. If it works I would unplug BOTH ends of the JBL to source and see if you get a picture. The JBL/Maestro to source leg is what usually fixes it for me.

If you find a reliable sequence that causes the condition I would reach out to Lumagen, they fixed pretty bad issues with some of the behavior on the Shield for me (which you will undoubtedly benefit from). It is very rare I deal with this now, generally only when I'm changing things around in the rack.

The shield can be super picky about the EDID. I have another setup in another room with a HDFury device for audio offload and I can't get it to work with any of the hdfury provided EDIDs, I have to pass through the actual source's EDID. If there were any EDID modifications that could cause an issue with the Shield. I've never had that problem with the Lumagen but I know you can mess with some of those settings. You may want to save a backup and factory default the lumagen to see if that's the issue. I would get some tech support from lumagen if you're going to do that.

The Roku was very weird and picky. It only worked reliably if I connected it directly to the projector via a 2m cable, even through an otherwise good HDMI cable and without the lumagen in the signal path it was still problematic. I don't think I've gone back to it since moving to a Ruipro fiber HDMI cable. I have rokus on my other TVs as they are easiest to integrate with Control 4 and no problems with any other units.

I have a Samsung K8500 BD player and this is the one thing that's been completely bulletproof with the lumagen... seems like it always works.

If you continue to have the problem, post a screenshot of your info screen (ok button while menu off) so we can see what the lumagen thinks its seeing.
 

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If you can clearly see the lumagen menu cable is not your issue, at least at the current rate/resolution.

I have a similar setup to you with older JVC (RS540). I do have the sister product to the SDP-55, the AudioControls Maestro. I also use a Shield TV for streaming (current gen) and use a Kodi device. I have seen this issue from time to time with both sources, it's mostly when I've been messing with the setup. I sometimes have to unplug/replug some of the HDMI interfaces. First I would see if the menu or the volume display on the SDP 55 comes up when you have the blank screen. I have mine turned off so that the aspect ratio doesn't jump back to 16:9 when adjusting volume so I have to turn mine on. That will tell you if you're good to the JBL. If that fails, I would unplug BOTH ends of the cable between the JBL and the Lumagen. If it works I would unplug BOTH ends of the JBL to source and see if you get a picture. The JBL/Maestro to source leg is what usually fixes it for me.
Thank you!

I realized that it happened after I updated my JBL to most recent FW. Chad B calibrated the whole thing and it was working great. Sources -> SDP-55 -> Lumagen -> RS2000. After he left, I updated my JBL's FW to the most recent one and turned it off. Next day when I turned it on, all I got is black screen with working Lumagen menus.

The issue is clearly between DSP-55 and Lumagen but I am not sure what it is and how to fix it. Chad recommended to reload the configuration file he gave me which I will try to do but for now I have connected my sources directly to Lumagen and bypassed the prepro.
 
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