AVS Forum banner

12001 - 12020 of 12122 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,415 Posts
the Lumagen does the tone mapping for sdr2020 or sdh2020 as long as you have the JVC in the correct picture mode (not frame adapt). The only difference is sdh2020 sends the hdr flag so your JVC will switch picture modes automatically.

Your JVC won’t do the tonemapping unless you have it in frame adapt (or hdr10 pic mode?)

Im sorry I’m confusing you! Bottom line, if you want the JVC to auto switch on its own, use sdh2020 (flag on) with user 4, 5 or 6 with import of gamma 2.4 you’ve got it set up correctly to let the Lumagen do its thing.

If you don’t care about it auto switching, just send sdr2020 (hdr flag off) and manually change the JVC to a pic mode you’ve set up with 2.4 gamma and bt2020 color profile.
No need to apologize...very very helpful…thanks for clarifying…
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scorpion66

·
Registered
Joined
·
730 Posts
I am so happy I never updated mine to v3.50!!!
For real!
All credit to Jue Liang, I believe he was the first to figure out the elaborate workaround.
Here’s hoping on Jvc’s future firmware updates they’ll go back to letting you pick any pic mode you want again for hdr again!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Killroy

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Thanks a million, I must be seen as the dumbest in Sweden right now, I totally misunderstood the whole concept.

The question that I ask myself if not the wider color gamut and the calibrated greyscale for bt2020 could be "distorted" when converting bt709 to bt2020? I mean my display Sony VW790 only support perhaps around 75--80% of the bt2020 gamut, Will the colors really look accurate by doing the conversion between 709 to 2020?

Thanks again!
As a side note, my Calibrator here in the UK (and also those French guys who did a video on the MadVR using aquaman and the Sony PJ) say that “Colour 2” is the native colour space for the Sony 760es (and probably the 790). You can only select this by using 709 then it becomes a selectable option in the PJ. My calibrator who is the main distributor/reseller/integrator of lumagen here sent me some measurements which show the 709/col2 actually had a slightly wider measured gamut than the 2020. I realise it feels like a downgrade, but Gordon is as experienced as they come with lumagen in this part of the world so I’ve no reason to doubt it.
 

·
aka jfinnie
Joined
·
5,445 Posts
As a side note, my Calibrator here in the UK (and also those French guys who did a video on the MadVR using aquaman and the Sony PJ) say that “Colour 2” is the native colour space for the Sony 760es (and probably the 790). You can only select this by using 709 then it becomes a selectable option in the PJ. My calibrator who is the main distributor/reseller/integrator of lumagen here sent me some measurements which show the 709/col2 actually had a slightly wider measured gamut than the 2020. I realise it feels like a downgrade, but Gordon is as experienced as they come with lumagen in this part of the world so I’ve no reason to doubt it.
I think this neatly highlights the potential issues with just selecting modes on the basis of names or what looks best; there's no substitute for measuring and fully understanding how a given display behaves in each mode in order to work out which is the display mode that will yield the best results. The choices made in displays often seem arbirtrary, though I'm sure they were in line with achieving some goal (that goal was probably not best possible reproduction when using an external video processor, though!).

It is a shame that displays don't make a habit of providing an easily accessible and clearly labelled "native" gamut.
 

·
aka jfinnie
Joined
·
5,445 Posts
Yes, ever since JVC 3.50 update, if you want the JVC to “auto switch” to your desired hdr mode with the hdr flag and not use it’s built in frame adapt mode, you have to import the gamma 2.4.

If you don’t mind using the JVC remote to manually switch to your desired hdr mode, then have the Lumagen send sdr2020 (instead of sdh2020).
The other option is to use some sort of control system to explicitly change modes on the display on the basis of the HDMI input format to the Lumagen. I do that with my X7900 as it is a bit less risky - my X7900 dislikes various power cycle states that you can make happen with use of the HDR flag when the HDR flag is also causing the lamp iris to move (I have lamp iris more closed for SDR).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,415 Posts
For real!
All credit to Jue Liang, I believe he was the first to figure out the elaborate workaround.
Here’s hoping on Jvc’s future firmware updates they’ll go back to letting you pick any pic mode you want again for hdr again!
Just curious, what are your settings for Low Ratio, DynPad, and MaxLight as we have similar setups…I know you have more gain than me, but just curious, thanks
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,608 Posts
The latest version of the MS Surface laptop - 4 - will not accept the USB to COM port driver in the Lumagen. It requires a separate driver. My old Surface book still works fine - hook up the USB cable and it recognizes the Lumagen as a COM port.

Not sure if this can be updated to work with the latest iteration of the USB port in the Surface Laptop 4.
 

·
aka jfinnie
Joined
·
5,445 Posts
The latest version of the MS Surface laptop - 4 - will not accept the USB to COM port driver in the Lumagen. It requires a separate driver. My old Surface book still works fine - hook up the USB cable and it recognizes the Lumagen as a COM port.

Not sure if this can be updated to work with the latest iteration of the USB port in the Surface Laptop 4.
Sounds very odd. Have you tried installing the correct FTDI driver for it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
730 Posts
Just curious, what are your settings for Low Ratio, DynPad, and MaxLight as we have similar setups…I know you have more gain than me, but just curious, thanks
I just use JRPs recommendations. I use 6x multiplier for my max light ( i get 100 nits so I use 600 max light).
Max light 600, dyn pad 5, low ratio 32.

Very happy with my picture, and I never have to tweak. I watch 4k uhd discs on my oppo, and lots of apple 4k tv (apple tv+, netflix, disney +, itunes). Nothing ever looks too dark.

Of course this is all very subjective, so you can try different settiings and "season to taste"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,415 Posts
I just use JRPs recommendations. I use 6x multiplier for my max light ( i get 100 nits so I use 600 max light).
Max light 600, dyn pad 5, low ratio 32.

Very happy with my picture, and I never have to tweak. I watch 4k uhd discs on my oppo, and lots of apple 4k tv (apple tv+, netflix, disney +, itunes). Nothing ever looks too dark.

Of course this is all very subjective, so you can try different settiings and "season to taste"
Awesome, thank you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: jbrinegar

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,823 Posts
Thanks everyone on the clarification. That makes sense - if you aren’t using an A-lens but still want to mask you’ll still need that info.

I didn’t realize that full v3 report only included aspect ratio information if auto aspect was turned on, and the description on the firmware download page is quite lacking, doesn’t mention auto aspect on/off at all.
If auto aspect is off, the V3 aspect reports the aspect selected by the user, as I think it should. If someone is manually controlling the aspects, this reports the user selected aspect to the control system to use for controlling the masking. Many owners prefer to manually control aspect ratio selection and masking, so they are in control of when masking moves. This allows mask movement to be automated based on the user aspect selection.

The new Full v4 was added to output the detected aspect without breaking all the systems that use Full v3 to report the user selected aspect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,823 Posts
Personal preference, but I like to use SDH2020 hdr flag on for my rs3000.

I've got my JVC to automatically go to user mode 4 when it gets an hdr flag, using gamma 2.4 imported. I like it like this so it’s automated.
Perfectly rational choice. Using the "HDR Flag" with Pro output as "SDH2020" to the JVC, but selecting a 2.4 Gamma for the memory selected by the HDR Flag works well. This allows you to have different settings, such as laser level, for HDR content.

The only downside is changing the HDR flag from off to on going to HDR content causes an output restart. This can lengthen the time to getting an image on the screen.

I have both CMS0 and CMS1 set to SDR2020, HDRFlag=Off, and auto-convert enabled, in the Lumagen demo theater. Personal choice. I used to use the "SDH2020" mode for HDR. I just prefer one less Pro HDMI output format changing when I go from the SDR Strato menu (now at 24 Hertz) to a 24 Hertz HDR movie.

NOTE: To reiterate, the HDR flag=on for HDR source mode (SDR output, HDRFlag=On showing as SDH2020 on Info pg 1) only works with a JVC projector.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
623 Posts
Perfectly rational choice. Using the "HDR Flag" with Pro output as "SDH2020" to the JVC, but selecting a 2.4 Gamma for the memory selected by the HDR Flag works well. This allows you to have different settings, such as laser level, for HDR content.

The only downside is changing the HDR flag from off to on going to HDR content causes an output restart. This can lengthen the time to getting an image on the screen.

I have both CMS0 and CMS1 set to SDR2020, HDRFlag=Off, and auto-convert enabled, in the Lumagen demo theater. Personal choice. I used to use the "SDH2020" mode for HDR. I just prefer one less Pro HDMI output format changing when I go from the SDR Strato menu (now at 24 Hertz) to a 24 Hertz HDR movie.

NOTE: To reiterate, the HDR flag=on for HDR source mode (SDR output, HDRFlag=On showing as SDH2020 on Info pg 1) only works with a JVC projector.
Sent you a PM if you have a minute.....thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,823 Posts
The latest version of the MS Surface laptop - 4 - will not accept the USB to COM port driver in the Lumagen. It requires a separate driver. My old Surface book still works fine - hook up the USB cable and it recognizes the Lumagen as a COM port.

Not sure if this can be updated to work with the latest iteration of the USB port in the Surface Laptop 4.
Please go to the ftdichip.com under drivers and then VCP drivers. Download and install the appropriate driver. In almost all cases downloading the current driver from the website will allow the USB virtual com port (VCP) using the Pro's internal chip to work.

This is assuming you have not already tried it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,823 Posts
Because of Hawkmarket's post I went and checked my PM's. Since I never check PM's I have a number of unanswered PM's. So to you who tried, apologies.

Everyone: Please do not PM me. Email works much better for me. I check email pretty much all day every day. So please email me at the lumagen.com support email. If I could figure a way to turn off PM's here I would,

I try to answer emails within 24 hours if a short reply is all that is needed. If it is going to take some time, I generally wait until I have time over the weekend. If you have an urgent need for an answer (e.g. a dealer on-site, or an end user who is not making any progress, or you want a couple minute tutorial on setup), it is best to call the number on our website (or if you have my cell number call that).

If it seems too long since you emailed and I have not replied based on the above, it likely means your email went to SPAM. In that case you can send the email again and then call the number on our website and leave a message for me to check SPAM and your email address. Please speak slowly and clearly as I often get rushed messages that have a nice dropout in the middle and I can't understand the email address to search for in the SPAM folder. Saying the email or phone number twice makes it much more likely it will be understood. I have had a number of people I could not call back because they spoke way too fast and the numbers were garbled.

While I am at it:

I do not do training for calibration. There are classes for calibration training. Please do not ask open ended questions like "what's the process for ...." I do have a setup slide set I can email you if you send me a request by email. It has some calibration hints. Also, I have limited knowledge of Lightspace (which I own), and Calman (which I sometimes get a temp license for to use for training dealers), but I am not an expert on either. Please do not ask how to do something in any calibration software package. Those are questions for the software vendor.

If you have a specific question about how a Radiance Pro command works, or concerning a specific recommendation I have made publicly, I will be happy to try to answer. I do ask you at least try to read the manual first to get an idea on what you need. Please do not use me as your Radiance Pro manual index function.

If you at least try to use the manual first I am happy to help if you do not understand. And I admit I wrote most of the manual and that I am rather terse, and write at a technical level. So, please do not be embarrassed if you have read the manual and then tried but just do not understand. That is the time to call me or send an email.

The manual is on our manuals page.

Thanks for your help making my support emails and calls shorter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,823 Posts
I had an email recently asking the blunt, but valid, question from a prospective customer of how long Lumagen will continue to make improvements to our products. Part of this question was if I plan to retire soon. I thought I would post my response here since I have to imagine some people considering the Radiance Pro would like to know. Here is my answer:

Please rest assured that unless I get Alzheimer’s I will never stop working until I am dead. I plan to never retire. I plan to run Lumagen for the rest of my life. Of course, I can’t say something won’t happen to interfere with my plans. Patrick is an essential aspect of continuing improvements for Lumagen video processors since he does the software/FPGA programming. However, in talking with Pat he is on the same path as me I believe. We both love our work and neither of us would be happy if our brains were left in idle by retirement. Even if something did happen to me, Lumagen would go on producing the models available at that time, and I believe Patrick, who is much younger than me, would continue software and algorithm improvements.

If we never upgraded the Pro again it would remain the best video processor on the planet for like ever. It can continue to be the central part of your 4k home theater for many years to come with the current software. I believe it would not become obsolete with current software for 4k, but again we plan on improving the software significantly in future releases. I was going to write on why 8K is a total waste, and that 4k is already beyond human visual acuity, as part of this answer but let me stop with just that comment. I will make more comments on 8k in a future posts.

No one can adequately predict the future, but my plan is to continue Lumagen for as long as I am capable (queue angelic voices and fade to black of no more than 0.001 nits).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,290 Posts
This is great to hear Jim. I am just wondering aloud, and this may be a very silly question, but could the dynamic tone mapping be advanced with the ability to assist laser projectors with dynamic dimming feature?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,823 Posts
This is great to hear Jim. I am just wondering aloud, and this may be a very silly question, but could the dynamic tone mapping be advanced with the ability to assist laser projectors with dynamic dimming feature?
Excellent question.

I do not like dynamic iris', and so far I do not like dynamic laser controls. They do not work well enough. These are both on my list of "Demo Features." What I mean is, like frame-interpolation, one can come up with a great demo, but they fall down on real content.

The Radiance Pro, since it has the best scene detection, and DTM, can do a much better job of controlling the laser level and in conjunction use the DTM to change the image transfer function to match the adjusted laser level. I know our RS4500 could be taken from very good contrast, to amazing real-world-content contrast. The Radiance Pro DTM would choose exactly the right laser-level, and exactly the right transfer function to match for each scene.

I actually suggested to JVC that if JVC gave the Radiance Pro HDMI Info-Frame control for the laser level it would allow the Radiance Pro to dramatically improve the real-content dynamic range and contrast. I was told "not going to happen." I figured as much but I wanted to make the offer.

=====

I will work with any projector company that is interested in much better real-world image dynamic range and contrast performance on the implementation of a laser-level control using the Lumagen DTM. This could improve SDR content as well as HDR content. This would technically be a dynamic-laser-level control (allow me to coin the acronym DLC for Dynamic Laser Control, or if already coined by someone else, refer to it), but it would be one that works a whole lot better than anything available. This is because the laser level needs to be chosen using the first frame after a scene cut, and not any where else. I think the lower native contrast of DLP's make them a great candidate for what the Radiance Pro could do for DLC using the Lumagen DTM technology.
 
12001 - 12020 of 12122 Posts
Top