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Excellent question.

I do not like dynamic iris', and so far I do not like dynamic laser controls. They do not work well enough. These are both on my list of "Demo Features." What I mean is, like frame-interpolation, one can come up with a great demo, but they fall down on real content.

The Radiance Pro, since it has the best scene detection, and DTM, can do a much better job of controlling the laser level and in conjunction use the DTM to change the image transfer function to match the adjusted laser level. I know our RS4500 could be taken from very good contrast, to amazing real-world-content contrast. The Radiance Pro DTM would choose exactly the right laser-level, and exactly the right transfer function to match for each scene.

I actually suggested to JVC that if JVC gave the Radiance Pro HDMI Info-Frame control for the laser level it would allow the Radiance Pro to dramatically improve the real-content dynamic range and contrast. I was told "not going to happen." I figured as much but I wanted to make the offer.

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I will work with any projector company that is interested in much better real-world image dynamic range and contrast performance on the implementation of a laser-level control using the Lumagen DTM. This could improve SDR content as well as HDR content. This would technically be a dynamic-laser-level control (allow me to coin the acronym DLC for Dynamic Laser Control, or if already coined by someone else, refer to it), but it would be one that works a whole lot better than anything available. This is because the laser level needs to be chosen using the first frame after a scene cut, and not any where else. I think the lower native contrast of DLP's make them a great candidate for what the Radiance Pro could do for DLC using the Lumagen DTM technology.
I am in full agreement, hopefully a projector company bites on this offer. It would be such a synergistic approach.
 

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JVC Z1, SI PW 150", MX160, M.L. 535H, Meridian 559, 2 x Sherbourne 2-160, REVEL Studio2,Gem2,Voice2
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Excellent question.

I do not like dynamic iris', and so far I do not like dynamic laser controls. They do not work well enough. These are both on my list of "Demo Features." What I mean is, like frame-interpolation, one can come up with a great demo, but they fall down on real content.

The Radiance Pro, since it has the best scene detection, and DTM, can do a much better job of controlling the laser level and in conjunction use the DTM to change the image transfer function to match the adjusted laser level. I know our RS4500 could be taken from very good contrast, to amazing real-world-content contrast. The Radiance Pro DTM would choose exactly the right laser-level, and exactly the right transfer function to match for each scene.

I actually suggested to JVC that if JVC gave the Radiance Pro HDMI Info-Frame control for the laser level it would allow the Radiance Pro to dramatically improve the real-content dynamic range and contrast. I was told "not going to happen." I figured as much but I wanted to make the offer.

=====

I will work with any projector company that is interested in much better real-world image dynamic range and contrast performance on the implementation of a laser-level control using the Lumagen DTM. This could improve SDR content as well as HDR content. This would technically be a dynamic-laser-level control (allow me to coin the acronym DLC for Dynamic Laser Control, or if already coined by someone else, refer to it), but it would be one that works a whole lot better than anything available. This is because the laser level needs to be chosen using the first frame after a scene cut, and not any where else. I think the lower native contrast of DLP's make them a great candidate for what the Radiance Pro could do for DLC using the Lumagen DTM technology.
That's a shame JVC didn't want to get together on that one, what a fantastic way to enhance the RS4500. Maybe it was too much of an enhancement towards what they want to be able to promote when they finally come up with a RS4500 successor. Pity we don't have any guys who can 'hack' into the RS4500 firmware to write some code to enable this functionality with the Lumagen.
 

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That's a shame JVC didn't want to get together on that one, what a fantastic way to enhance the RS4500. Maybe it was too much of an enhancement towards what they want to be able to promote when they finally come up with a RS4500 successor. Pity we don't have any guys who can 'hack' into the RS4500 firmware to write some code to enable this functionality with the Lumagen.
At this point, isn't it more like "IF" JVC comes up with a successor to the RS4500? Or has anyone heard anything concrete about a successor?
 

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At this point, isn't it more like "IF" JVC comes up with a successor to the RS4500? Or has anyone heard anything concrete about a successor?
No Steve, no one has as yet. It is purely speculative still at this stage.
 
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I think all the manufacturers are really worried about the supply of chips and parts right now. Just making enough projectors to meet current demand is a big enough challenge without sweetening the deal with a new model.
 
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Following Problem:

I have a Radiance Pro 4242 and a Sony 870ES. Now when i view this test image on the Oppo 203 or a PC (resolution set to 3840x2160px) without the Lumagen it will display it 1:1 natively and you can see all the 1px vertical lines and 1px chess patterns just fine.

Once i connect the Lumagen to my chain i can't see the 1px lines and patterns anymore, they are just not visible anymore. (you can only see the bg) Also the fonts getting a little distorted and especially on a PC desktop you get the feeling that there is a little scaling added and it doesn't look as sharp anymore.

Some things i noted / tested:
  • The Sony is connected directly to the output of the Lumagen (projector aspect ratio is set to normal so there is no zoom involved, RC is off, Automatic convergence on the sony is also off)
  • My Yamaha A2070 AVR outputs to the Lumagen input 1. Since it works over the AVR without the lumagen i don't think that the AVR messes something up.
  • Factory resettet my lumagen to make sure i didn't messed up somewhere
  • Tested various chroma settings on both the lumagen and pc / oppo to make sure its not a chroma subsampling problem. First i tested with 4:2:2 though as stated in the Lumagen manual.
  • If i set my PC and my lumagen both to 4096x2160 and display the image 1:1 in photoshop (since the image is UHD and therefore would get scaled for 4096) it will display just fine. It only happens for 3840x2160.

Any ideas would be highly appreciated. Really tested every setting i could think of but since it works just fine out of the box without the lumagen there has to be some setting iam not aware of.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #12,027 ·
So I started this thread back in 2015. I have and still use the old school Radiance XD and I just recently upgraded to a Pro unit this week. For the 1st time I see a significant improvement in 4k UHD/HDR over my 3 Plasma (Pioneer 141, Samsung F8500 and my Panasonic VT60) 1080P. I purchased a LG C6 in 2017 and a Sony A1E in 2018. These set to my eyes had only improved in terms of black level for the most part. 2 nights ago I slipped in the recently purchased 4242+ with my A1E via an Nvidia Shield Pro and the picture quality was fantastic. I selected a movie on Prime called "Without Remorse" and the detail was incredible. There were some scenes that looked somewhat "diffused" and not sure why... maybe those particle scenes were just bad shots ... Anyhow I will slip the Pro in with my LG OLED and my JVC projector and see it has the same affect as it did with the A1E. Eventually it will permanently used with my A1E and the JVC projector feed by an Oppo 203. Time to break out the calibration gear and tune it in and make it look even better. It's gonna take some time going through this thread to see what quirks users had with the 4xxx series of the Lumagen. It finally means I will finally offload my Plasmas at least 1 of them.
 

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Coming closer ...

When i input 3840x2160 with 25hz or below it will output everything correctly. (output same hz as input) If i use >25hz (no matter the input device) it looks like it will set a Hres of 1920px instead of 3840. At least thats what it tells me on Info pg4 and also thats what the scaling of the output kind of looks like. Once i go 25hz or below it shows 3840 for HRes and the image looks perfect.

Any suggestions or is this something that maybe got fixed already with a firmware update (if its a bug)?

Edit: Latest firmware doesn't help.
 

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Has anyone else had issues in upgrading to the new AppleTV through a lumagen?
 

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Has anyone else had issues in upgrading to the new AppleTV through a lumagen?
I have an ATV4KGen2 and in general it has been working well, not had anything significantly different to the ATV4KGen1 it replaced.
I've had a couple of audio glitches though recently with the advent of the Dolby Atmos / Spatial Audio update, and am in the process of trying to work out what is causing them - image is unaffected when they happen. They don't happen very often though which means I'm going to have to have a bit of a session to try figure out where it is happening.

I should say I'm sure I've seen at least one post in the ATV thread mentioning similar without Radiance (though I couldn't find it again, so re-posted a question there), so I don't think at this stage it is related to the Lumagen specifically, and might be more a question about the new ATV4KGen2. Given there are only some marginal performance gains to be had at the moment, plus a bit more HDR at 60Hz, I'm not sure it's worth upgrading...
 

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I should add, the Gen2 is running 14.7 beta software, which I guess could also be implicated. I'm probably going to spend a little while comparing apples-for-apples the ATV4kGen1 and 2 in use and see if I can see any pattern in the behaviour.
 

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Has anyone else had issues in upgrading to the new AppleTV through a lumagen?
Zero problem at all with my new Apple TV and Lumagen into RS4500. Changed over from existing 4K.
 
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Coming closer ...

When i input 3840x2160 with 25hz or below it will output everything correctly. (output same hz as input) If i use >25hz (no matter the input device) it looks like it will set a Hres of 1920px instead of 3840. At least thats what it tells me on Info pg4 and also thats what the scaling of the output kind of looks like. Once i go 25hz or below it shows 3840 for HRes and the image looks perfect.

Any suggestions or is this something that maybe got fixed already with a firmware update (if its a bug)?

Edit: Latest firmware doesn't help.
I’m sure you already have but your best bet is to email lumagen support. My first guess was Digital Focus optimiser on the Sony but you have RC disabled. Have you checked the signal type in the Sony info screen to see if with and without lumagen is the same format, e.g 2020 vs 709... also maybe check if Smooth Gradation is enabled, if so there might be something applied by the lumagen CMS that causes that to smooth out the lines. I have mine on and it does distort those fine calibration images, but it also cuts down banding.
Also I’d check the sharpening settings, press right arrow on the remote (I think, maybe left ;) )...
I’m no lumagen expert tho, best tho ask the man who is, Jim should respond to emails fairly quickly, normally does.
 

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Has anyone else had issues in upgrading to the new AppleTV through a lumagen?
No problems for me going from 4k gen 1 to 4k gen 2 (Netflix, iTunes, dis+, Apple TV+, prime)
 
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Hi folks…I’m having an issue with NLS…clearly some settings I have wrong…when I hit the 1.85 button and then NLS, shouldn't my scope screen fill? Actually my normal non NLS 1.85 looks vertically stretched and when I hit the NLS button it does stretch horizontally but does not fill the screen…perhaps someone could point me to the proper areas in the manual as AR control appears to be in a few different sections…thanks

edit…I’ve gone back to factory defaults and will wait for input from someone…thanks

edit 2…working now after some tweaks…Interesting stretch for sure…may take a bit of getting use to
 

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Random comment of the day:

For NLS, the "center section stretch" values were not optimal for all source aspects (all were 18% center-section-stretch). In the last release or two, we have changed the default center-section-stretch percentage. If you do a Factory Reset with the latest release you will get the new NLS center-section-stretch amounts. If you want to just enter them, here is the new list of default values for center-section-stretch. Note that these assume a screen aspect of 2.40. Here they are:

Input Aspect Percent
1.78 18%
1.85 15%
1.90 13%
2.00 10%
2.20 7%
2.35 0% Not sure NLS is even allowed for 2.35
2.40 n/a

The idea I used for these is the center-section-stretch is roughly half of the linear-stretch output-aspect to source-aspect ratio.

Since these are a per source aspect, per input, per input memory, this is of course some work. If you have not modified input settings, you can instead do a "Factory Reset" in the Save menu, but select "all input memories" (not sure of the exact name) for the scope to factory reset.

Make sure to Save your changes.
 

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I am really disappointed to learn today that the Lumagen RP cannot properly display 3D content with a Panamorph DCR lens in place. At least with my JVC RS4500 which doesn’t have internal anamorphic scaling. I didn't ever think I would need internal video scaling from my projector, with an expensive external video processor attached !

The Lumagen is such a powerful video processor. I am surprised it can’t scale 3D content (which, after all , is only 1080p). Is this a technical limitation, or something that Lumagen did not have time or desire to implement yet ? If the latter, please add this support ! I understand the competitor product out there is adding full 3D support soon.
 

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I am really disappointed to learn today (from Kris Deering) that the Lumagen RP cannot properly display 3D content with a Panamorph DCR lens in place. At least with my JVC RS4500 which doesn’t have internal anamorphic scaling. I didn't ever think I would need internal video scaling from my projector, with an expensive external video processor attached !

The Lumagen is such a powerful video processor. I am surprised it can’t scale 3D content (which, after all , is only 1080p). Is this a technical limitation, or something that Lumagen did not have time or desire to implement yet ? If the latter, please add this support ! I understand the competitor product out there is adding full 3D support soon.
That is not what I said. The Lumagen can process 3D without ANY issues at all. YOUR projector (the RS4500) is the problem here, not the Lumagen. The JVC cannot take a scaled 3D image and it won't take a 2140x1080 image, which is what would be required from the Lumagen to display it properly with the DCR lens in place. On top of that, the RS4500 lacks ANY processing for a DCR lens internally, so you can't work around it if you want the full performance of the lens (you can just output 1080P 3D, and the Lumagen will do the vertical stretching required, but the image will not fill the full width of your screen with the DCR).

So saying this is a limitation of the Lumagen is wrong, it is a limitation of your projector. There are better work arounds in the RS1000/2000/3000 as they have DCR processing, so you can work around this easier. Sony has this as well.
 

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That is not what I said. The Lumagen can process 3D without ANY issues at all. YOUR projector (the RS4500) is the problem here, not the Lumagen. The JVC cannot take a scaled 3D image and it won't take a 2140x1080 image, which is what would be required from the Lumagen to display it properly with the DCR lens in place. On top of that, the RS4500 lacks ANY processing for a DCR lens internally, so you can't work around it if you want the full performance of the lens (you can just output 1080P 3D, and the Lumagen will do the vertical stretching required, but the image will not fill the full width of your screen with the DCR).

So saying this is a limitation of the Lumagen is wrong, it is a limitation of your projector. There are better work arounds in the RS1000/2000/3000 as they have DCR processing, so you can work around this easier. Sony has this as well.
Sorry- thanks for clarifying this.

I assume there is no way for JVC to upgrade the firmware on the 4500 to allow it to ex. accept 2140x1080 from a Lumagen since presumably they would have done this already, if it were that simple.

I guess there is no way to view 1080p 3D content with the 4500 and dcr in place, without its proportions being distorted ? Do you envision any type of solution in the future ?
 

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That is not what I said. The Lumagen can process 3D without ANY issues at all. YOUR projector (the RS4500) is the problem here, not the Lumagen. The JVC cannot take a scaled 3D image and it won't take a 2140x1080 image, which is what would be required from the Lumagen to display it properly with the DCR lens in place. On top of that, the RS4500 lacks ANY processing for a DCR lens internally, so you can't work around it if you want the full performance of the lens (you can just output 1080P 3D, and the Lumagen will do the vertical stretching required, but the image will not fill the full width of your screen with the DCR).

So saying this is a limitation of the Lumagen is wrong, it is a limitation of your projector. There are better work arounds in the RS1000/2000/3000 as they have DCR processing, so you can work around this easier. Sony has this as well.
I'm curious what the solution for the RS3000 is. I initially reported the issue when these projectors first came out and never circled back to it after their fix wasn't a true fix, specifically for scope 3D content as you still wind up iwth black bars on the side.
 
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