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Discussion Starter #1
Say goodbye to the color wheel and yes, it has 1080p inputs! It says "true 1080p", anyone have word on a new DLP chip?


Here are the highlights:
  1. HL-S5679W available April 1 for $4,199
  2. First Ever LED Light Source DLP
  3. No color wheel (no rainbows)
  4. 2 1080P HDMI inputs
  5. Improved bulb life


Las Vegas, NV – Samsung, a world leader in HDTV display technology and innovation, introduces the first ever LED light sourced DLP rear projection HDTV. The HL-S5679W’s unique LED light source engine offers a host of benefits, including significantly improved longevity, increased color gamut reproduction, quicker turn-on time, and greater environmental friendliness. See Samsung’s HL-S5679W along with the full award-winning DLP line during CES 2006 at the Samsung booth, #11033 in the Central Hall of the Las Vegas Convention Center from January 5th – 8th.


The HL-S5679W replaces the current UHP bulb with a high-powered LED light source. The LED light sourced single chip DLP light engine does not require a color wheel and provides improved longevity. Red, green and blue laser LEDs sequentially fire to produce smooth, stable color. The “LumiLit†light engine ensures a longer lamp life (20,000 hours without brightness degradation) and a shorter turn-on time (7 seconds). The engine is also mercury-free making it more environmentally friendly.


“The LED Light Sourced DLP RPTV once again demonstrates Samsung’s commitment to advancing the boundaries of technology innovation and design excellence,†said Dan Schinasi, Senior Marketing Manager for Projection TV for Samsung Electronics America. “With improvements in lamp life, picture stability, turn-on time and Mercury free, the HL-S5679W launches a new era for DLP HDTVs.â€


The HL-S5679W operates longer and quieter than previously designed light engine based rear projection TV sets. The LED light sourced DLP RPTV provides natural color, with an improved color gamut versus traditional CRT televisions. Featuring true high definition 1920 x 1080p resolution and Samsung’s Cinema Smooth™ light engine with Texas Instruments™ DLP technology, the HL-S5679W displays picture with breathtaking clarity and vividness. Two 1080p HDMI inputs that are compatible with the latest 1080p source content, provides plug and play connectivity for digital devices. And the black glossy finish and integrated ATSC and NTSC tuner ensure that the HL-S5679W will be an elegant addition to any living room, and the Cable Card feature allows the TV to be used without a cable box.


The HL-S5679W will be available in April 2006 at MSRP $4,199.


About Samsung Electronics America, Inc.

Headquartered in Ridgefield Park, NJ, Samsung Electronics America, Inc. (SEA), a wholly owned subsidiary of Samsung Electronics Co., markets a broad range of award-winning, advanced digital consumer electronics, information systems and home appliance products. The SEA organization oversees the North American operations of Samsung including Samsung Telecommunications America, LP, Samsung Electronics Canada, Inc. and Samsung Electronics Mexico, Inc. Please visit www.samsung.com for more information.


About Samsung Electronics

Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. is a global leader in semiconductor, telecommunication, digital media and digital convergence technologies with 2004 parent company sales of US$55.2 billion and net income of US$10.3 billion. Employing approximately 113,600 people in over 90 offices in 48 countries, the company consists of five main business units: Digital Appliance Business, Digital Media Business, LCD Business, Semiconductor Business and Telecommunication Network Business. Recognized as one of the fastest growing global brands, Samsung Electronics is a leading producer of digital TVs, memory chips, mobile phones, and TFT-LCDs. For more information, please visit www.samsung.com .
 

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I can't wait to see it, hopefully no color wheel means no rainbows.
 

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Here is some infor on the new TI chips you asked about:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...g+DLP+CES+2006



================================


Originally Posted By:KWhite


TI Unveils Breakthrough DLP(R) HDTV Innovations With LED Technology and New Chipsets at 2006 International CES

Thursday January 5, 6:05 am ET

DLP(R) HDTVs Lead Microdisplay Category, Dominate 1080p Sales



LAS VEGAS, Jan. 5 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Texas Instruments (NYSE: TXN - News; TI) at 2006 International CES today announced technology innovations that will drive industry-leading DLP® HDTV technology to new, ground-breaking levels of picture quality, and more affordable solutions for manufacturers and ultimately consumers. With the introduction of a new DLP HDTV solution that supports LED light sources, and new HDTV chipsets with BrilliantColor(TM) color processing technology, consumers will benefit from even more high- quality viewing choices from DLP HDTV manufacturers.

ADVERTISEMENT



Samsung will ship the first commercially available DLP HDTV with an LED light engine in 2006. The integration of highly-efficient LED technology for DLP HDTVs offers the ability to display a wider NTSC color gamut at approximately 130%. The unit also provides Instant On/Off functionality, and expands DLP technology's leadership in Samsung's high performance HDTV solutions. LED light sources unshackle the inherent speed advantage of DLP technology and increase the color refresh rate to 48x the standard TV frame rate, further accelerating DLP technology's speed leadership position and providing the best TV technology solution for watching fast motion sports and video games. Samsung expects to begin shipping these sets by mid-2006.


To continue offering consumers the best visual experience at an affordable price, TI is introducing two new chipsets: the .45" 720p DLP chip and the .65" 1080p DLP chip. Both chipsets feature BrilliantColor(TM) technology optimized for DLP HDTV applications to extend DLP color processing from 3 colors up to 6 colors, increasing the number of producible color shades to an astonishing 200 trillion, and providing an up to 50% total screen brightness increase. This translates to incredible new levels of color saturation and overall image enhancement from very affordable chipsets, allowing manufacturers to maintain the DLP HDTV price advantage on large screen TVs for years to come.


DLP HDTV technology is leading the industry in maximum-HD 1080p resolution as the number one selling 1080p TV technology in 2005, according to The NPD Group. 1080 resolution is the high-definition standard which content is moving towards, from broadcast standards to gaming devices such as Xbox 360, to the HD-DVD standard supported by TI. DLP was also the number one microdisplay technology used by TV manufacturers in 4Q05 through November (Source: The NPD Group).


"We strive to provide our customers with performance innovations, while also continuing to ensure a price competitive solution for the market," said Adam Kunzman, Business Manager, DLP HDTV Products, Texas Instruments. "Ultimately, it is about delivering the best HDTV at an unmatched value for the consumer, and DLP is determined to win against plasma."


CES attendees can experience DLP 1080p technology for both TV and front projection applications at TI DLP Products booth #8602 in the Central Hall.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
UCSB, thanks for the info.


I cannot find if the new chip is native 1920 x 1080 or just the current chip with BrilliantColor(TM) technology.
 

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If it has one chip it will produce rainbows. Remember the old one chip Phillips Lcos set, it did not have a color wheel but it produced the rainbow effect.
 

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I can recall during the past year many members on this forum saying LED would not be harnessed for many years to come and it looks like this proves them wrong. LED is much purer light source running cooler and much longer lasting and has too many benefits for it not to migrate into TV technology.


We wondered what they'd shoot for next and this does look promising in many ways now if they could make the form factor a bit thinner without sacrificing PQ. This means a Powerbuy is in the works at TVA? It also means that if it debuts in April BB may not have it until 2007 as they have been nearly six months behind on the current 1080P panels. Good News for DLP with no RBE - If there's no wheel and pure light is projected like an LCD how can RBE occur, removing the wheel removes the source of RBE doesn't it? No RBE on an SXRD or and LCD so how does the RBE remain? :D
 

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More than a little disappointed that a manufacturing process that is significantly cheaper yields an MSRP that's a premium product. This seems like it's gonna defiantly give DLP a major boost, but as someone who hasn't been a huge DLP fan, I was hoping they'd use this new tech to get more people to consider DLP tech. But I guess I'm not the typical BB customer, and since this will be a good bullet point on the sales brochure, they can use the tech to just have even fatter margins.
 

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I think "CInemaSmooth" from Samsung means it's wobulated, right?


What does the "48X" color refresh rate mean? Is that 48x30 = 1440 times per second? With the current color wheel, I think the color refresh rate is 180 revs per second * 2 segments per rev = 360 times per second . I wonder how much that helps with the rainbow effect.
 

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Paul,

Why would you care about their margins? Competition establishes margins and creates innovation to generate profits - for the shareholders that own the company, we're consumers but why would I give a hoot about margins since this is product not a public service item.


Market Supply/Demand - The American Way - If they don't make money we get the SOSO - if they make money and the better mousetrap we benefit. As a result we have hundreds if not thousands of choices in a TV today versus a dozen flavors/sizes/formats 20-30 years ago. They aren't trying to save taxes or cure diseases or present us a Public Service they are creating what they hope the market wants to ENTERTAIN US to MAKE MONEY!!! :D
 

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I care about the huge margins because you're still making sacrifices with each technology you choose. And the cheaper a product is, the more forgiving I am of flaws. 2000-3000 was what I was expecting. Now if 4000 is pocket change, then I guess it doesn't matter.


Maybe I'm also operating under the misguided notion that a lot of this LED research has been done by the outside. That a company like (Just an example) http://www.lumileds.com/index.html are the ones that were driving LED tech. And that the fact the LED companies having advanced the tech to today's level is why they're now being implemented by the TV companies. Are fat margins really gonna drive future advances like these? Now maybe HP, TI, Samsung, etc. are solely responsible for LEDs advancing to their current state and I'm completely off base. I've just been operating under the assumption they piggybacked this technology and am disappointed they're just using its advantages it to bleed more blood from the stone.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
If it has one chip it will produce rainbows. Remember the old one chip Phillips Lcos set, it did not have a color wheel but it produced the rainbow effect.
According to this article:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1153392,00.asp
Quote:
According to a talk I had with Gene O'Donnell, Director of Advanced Displays and Systems at Thomson (RCA), he said an Air Force study of DLP color breakup determined that 2500 sub-frames per second would be required in a sequential color display single-chip DLP system in order to totally avoid color breakup effects. The Air Force was analyzing different display technologies for avionics systems, and fighter pilots cannot tolerate any artifacts or flashes of color in their peripheral vision due to display deficiencies.


With six color segments spinning at 9000rpm, or 150rps, the HLN4365W delivers 900 sub-frames per second (150 x 6), which is about 3X slower than what would be required to totally eradicate the rainbow effect. Each color (R, G, and B) is drawn 300 times per second, and in a 60 frame per second display scenario, each color is drawn five times per frame, so the Samsung DLP color wheel is considered a 5X system.
If this is correct, a "~14X 60fps" color system is required to eliminate RBE and TI's "48X 30fps(?) (or 24X 60fps?)" claim exceeds that. On the other hand, if the calculation is as in my earlier post, the 1440 color refresh rate is still short of 2500. Anyone know more about this Air Force study?
 

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The whole point of introducing new technologies in a business is either to capture more market share or get premium pricing. Business is a bout growing profits. As Plasma and LCD prices drop RP technology like DLP have started to loose their predominate market share. They may gain a minor increase by eliminating RBE but their probably focusing this on better spec's longer life without lamp i.e. premium technology so higer price. The price will come down as competition increases and someone else comes out with premium technology that reduces the value proposition. But if you want high end early your going to pay for it with more money and probably more agravation i.e. quality issues.
 

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Isn't the 5678W still at a MSRP of $3999? True you can find it cheaper, but you will also not pay the MSRP for this new unit. Doesn't seem like this is priced *that* much more for new technology.


Let's hope it gets rid of video lag and perhaps the 720P units will have the blacks that the 1080Ps do.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spear
According to this article:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1153392,00.asp



If this is correct, a "~14X 60fps" color system is required to eliminate RBE and TI's "48X 30fps(?) (or 24X 60fps?)" claim exceeds that. On the other hand, if the calculation is as in my earlier post, the 1440 color refresh rate is still short of 2500. Anyone know more about this Air Force study?



You guys are missing the point here. LEDs are NOT sequential. They can be switched individually b/t colors in any order - unlike a colorwheel. This is a really big deal and unlike the prism in the 1 chip lcos set, this will (or should) completely eliminate rainbows. Check the thread in the FP forum about this for the most educated peeps perspective about this.


TM
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody
You guys are missing the point here. LEDs are NOT sequential. They can be switched individually b/t colors in any order - unlike a colorwheel. This is a really big deal and unlike the prism in the 1 chip lcos set, this will (or should) completely eliminate rainbows. Check the thread in the FP forum about this for the most educated peeps perspective about this.
Thanks for the pointer. Is this the thread you're referring to?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=626515

I don't see where they indicate that the ability to switch colors non-sequentially helps eliminate RBE. In fact, the posts there seem to reinforce the point that LEDs let you have what is effectively a higher speed color wheel. (The additional benefits of lack of spoke time and no scattered light are appreciated.) Is there another thread that discusses this?


Thanks.
 

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This sounds pretty cool.

HP also announced their LED DLP TV for later this year. So, it definitely looks like LED is the future for DLP. I am not sure what they mean when they say "LED Laser"?

Does it mean it is a laser (which they have red, green and blue also), or is it LED?


Quote from above:

"Red, green and blue laser LEDs sequentially fire to produce smooth, stable color."
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul33993
More than a little disappointed that a manufacturing process that is significantly cheaper yields an MSRP that's a premium product. This seems like it's gonna defiantly give DLP a major boost, but as someone who hasn't been a huge DLP fan, I was hoping they'd use this new tech to get more people to consider DLP tech. But I guess I'm not the typical BB customer, and since this will be a good bullet point on the sales brochure, they can use the tech to just have even fatter margins.
That is the nature of business... Did JVC make their second generation LCOS sets cheaper than the first?? NO... they are there to make a profit. They are debuting at prices cheaper than the originals though... and that is a GOOD thing. With every generation the prices will trickle down further and furter, until they are total commodities like current CRT tube TV's are. If companies weren't allowd to make fat profit margins off of new technologies there would be no incentive to produce them, and we would be stuck with the same old technology.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969
I can recall during the past year many members on this forum saying LED would not be harnessed for many years to come and it looks like this proves them wrong. LED is much purer light source running cooler and much longer lasting and has too many benefits for it not to migrate into TV technology.
And I have been one of them. I am very surprised by this and would like to know more about how this technology works. I wonder how bright they are and how hight the gain of the screen is.


BTW, the purity of LED (or the novalux laser) light source is not without its down-side.


Anyone, like me, with high-index plastic lenses, will find it quite annoying with three discrete images (like a badly converged RPTV) unless you look directly through the center of your glasses.
 
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