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New Pioneer 60" (6070HD) Plasma....WOW!

7043 Views 64 Replies 32 Participants Last post by  Pedro2
6070HD


Even though I knew Pioneer had just introduced this plasma, it hasn't really been on my radar in terms of my own quest for a bigger display, because I want more than 60."


However, I just encountered the new Pioneer 6070HD in my local Future Shop (a best-buy like shop in Canada). WOW! Holy cow did this thing impress me!


It was in a dimly lit "cove" with a Panasonic 50" (600 if I remember), LG 50" and Sony LCD playing the same familiar seen-it-a-bilion-times HD demo feed. And of course the feed is split among practically every display in the store. All the plasmas were clearly in out of the box torch mode. So I had to make mental allowances for the types of defects in each that can be attributed to the "vivid" modes, and to source problems.


But all that taken into account, the new Pioneer was absolutely stunning. The color was certainly pushed up, but nonetheless the color detail in general was incredible. So was the contrast! It looked like the ANSI contrast (ability to hold deep blacks/bright whites simultaneously) was tremendous. And in fact the black levels looked fantastic too! In fact, in staring at lots of different material which had many dark scenes (e.g. clips from the latest X-men movie), the Pioneer actually gave the subjective impression of as deep or often deeper looking blacks than the Panasonic. Only in between source feed changes, when the screens all went to black, did the Pioneer's black levels appear discernibly higher than the Panasonic.

But otherwise, the sense of rich contrast handily exceeded the Panasonic.


As did the over-all sense of dimensionality. In fact, this was perhaps the most realistically dimensional image I've seen on a plasma. It made all the other displays around it looked slightly artificially flattened. It just performed so impressively on a range of HD images that have, unfortunately for my sanity, been burned into my brain through repetition. Scenes that have always looked detailed, but flat (e.g. guys climbing on huge sheets of mountain ice, zoomed in images) on even good HD displays, found another level of dimensionality on the Pioneer.


And, again, those scenes from X-Men were just blow-away in terms of color richness, color detail, punch, sharpness and gorgeous-looking contrast over-all.

It's hard for me to think of a display that impressed me so much on those counts.


(Again, making allowances for the crushed blacks I was seeing, and I think there was likely some DNR setting on the Pioneer that was sometimes rubbing away finer details which were evident in the smaller plasmas. But aside from that, in this viewing set-up the big Pioneer spanked the Panny in almost every way).


Man, if this display came in 65" I'd be seriously tempted. And if it were 1080p...whew! But even though it's not 1080p I'm sure this plasma would look out-of-this-world with a good HD-DVD source.


I'd love to do a more controlled viewing of that display, but first impressions struck me as enormously promising.


It's too bad it doesn't come in 65", because for me 65" seems to be the threshold point that crosses from "watching a great TV" to a cinematic experience.


However, anyone considering a plasma around this size should check this thing out! (And yes, if this thing performed as I think it would when properly set-up, I have a feeling I'd take it over the Panasonic 50"....but I'd need to see a side-by-side for sure).
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Rich, I too saw this unit yesterday at BB, but I saw the 6071...not sure what the differences are. I too was wowed by the pictures, but I wasn't as fortunate in seeing it in a dimly lit area. But it had the typical Pioneer 'look', bright, beautiful colors and what seemed to be nice blacks given the room lighting.


However, since it was 'only' 60" and not 1080p, I didn't spend too much time with it. But I do agree with you, for someone that doesn't care about 1080p and is in the market for a 60" panel, this deserves serious consideration! Now, where do I find that Fujitsu 65" 1080p panel. The more I see, the more I think this may truly be the killer panel.
Yeah, the Fujitsu could be mind-blowing.


Does anyone have the story on this Pioneer panel in terms of who developed it? The previous 60" + Pioneer plasma used NEC glass (with Pioneer tweaks). Now that Pioneer/NEC has partnered, is this new 60" coming out of the mostly Pioneer-facilities, or from the NEC. Anyone know?


(And I continue to be puzzled as to why, after producing plasmas at 60" and 50" with such rich contrast, that Pioneer would have put out a new 42" "HD" model with clearly poorer contrast/black levels).
Thanks Rich, for sharing your insights on yet another display on my short list. :)


We have discussed (in the Panny PX65/600 thread) the idea that the new Panny 65 may be more of a 2-3 year display, with the current relative price-to-performance of the Panny falling enough short of greatness in terms of features (1080p/24 input) and performance, that some may want to wait for the next gen before paying the associated premium. I have been wrestling with this dilemma, as a wall mounted PDP will put my viewing distance right around twelve feet. After considering your recent post on the merits of 1080p (vs. 768) at farther viewing distances, I have been pondering a new 60" Pio as a possible transitional display.


Your comment about a 65" display being the "threshold point" for making your viewing a "cinematic experience" also resonated with me. Though at my viewing distance, I think my threshold point is more like 70". Last year I made a cardboard mockup of a 70" screen and what I discovered from contrasting this with 65" and 60" sizes, is that a 70" my eye muscles no longer have to 'flex' to focus on the screen area. For me, this was a "Gestalt ah-ha!" moment. I almost bought a 70" JVC 1080p for this very reason, but the SSE and shear mass of the cabinet moved me back to waiting on a 65" Panny 1080p.


All of this has me thinking a 60" Pio just might make a great transitional display, until such time as the 70"+ 1080p PDPs hit the market; which I read rumors speculating that they are coming sometime in '07. If that is so, then I might buy a 60 for now, with the idea of moving it to the bedroom, when it can be replaced with a 70"+ PDP. But instead of getting a 6070, I may spring for the Elite 1540 instead.


The 1540 brings better processing (Active DRE, Intelligent DRE, Intelligent Color Enhancement), filtering (First-Surface PRO Color Filter), tweakability (ISFccc day & nighttime calibration, Color Temp Adj, Color Management System) and available user modes (PURE). Both displays offer dual NTSC and ATSC tuners, as well as 1080p/24 inputs, but only the Elite offers networking capabilities. And unlike the big Panny, you don't have to spend 2k to get (removable) speakers and a stand. At the south of six price I was offered, the Elite 1540 just may be *the one*' for now.
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Don't forget the 1540 has networking capabilities :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness
Yeah, the Fujitsu could be mind-blowing.


Does anyone have the story on this Pioneer panel in terms of who developed it? The previous 60" + Pioneer plasma used NEC glass (with Pioneer tweaks). Now that Pioneer/NEC has partnered, is this new 60" coming out of the mostly Pioneer-facilities, or from the NEC. Anyone know?


(And I continue to be puzzled as to why, after producing plasmas at 60" and 50" with such rich contrast, that Pioneer would have put out a new 42" "HD" model with clearly poorer contrast/black levels).
The 60" is coming from a brand new line. neither companies had a 60" plasma prior to these panels, so....who developed it......Pioneer.
R Harkness


The new 6070 is indeed a stunner. I have heard varying accounts but the panel is new and a result of Pioneer’s takeover of NEC’s plasma technologies. Hence the size change from 61 to 60. I believe it incorporates the new technologies of its’ little brothers.

I bought my 6071 at Best Buy, only difference is a second smaller remote. I experienced an issue with three panels that has been reported on other threads. On a light/white background there is a noticeable grid that can be seen. It is most apparent on a break-in DVD where I can bring up a white screen. Would like to know next time you look at this panel if it some thing you notice. All of them also had from 3 to five stuck/dead pixels.

It seems to be that most suffering from this issue got the 6071 from Best Buy. I was going to get the 58 600u but after living with the 6071(yes even with a grid) the Panny picture looks duller to me, almost like a grey film or dirty whites. Yes this was after adjusting the Panny while killing time waiting on the paper work for my second 6071.

So am trying to decide if I should give the 6070 another shot and hope it was a bad batch Best Buy got or move on. I do think this panel is one of the best at its’ size and price point.
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I guess we were all out cruisin PDP shops yesterday, looked at the Pio60 in a FShop in Newmarket late pm, there was a 50" and 58" Panny in the vicinity, the rich colors of the Pioneer and sizing sort of steal the show. In terms of blacks and sharpness the 50" Panny has it but then you lack the size. After seeing the 65 Panny earlier in the day and the FHD1 you do tend to overload your visual senses. I do agree with some of the comments on the 65Panny first impression thread, as size goes up you better have much improved source material otherwise I think you reach diminishing returns. Weighing everything I've seen this past weekend I'd have to say the FHD1 stands out to yours truly but only because I am the type that 'best picture' does not necessarily equate to size. Why else would I have hummed and hymned over the old 34CRTSony vs 42Panny plasma. It's a great time for enthusiasts good to know there's other eccentrics like me running around looking at plasmas !
What's the difference between the Pioneer Elite 6070 and the Pioneer Elite 1540?
I'd get a plasma without hesitation if I had the $$$ :( and yes, Pioneer would be on top of my list 2nd by Panasonic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spur
R Harkness


The new 6070 is indeed a stunner. I have heard varying accounts but the panel is new and a result of Pioneer’s takeover of NEC’s plasma technologies. Hence the size change from 61 to 60. I believe it incorporates the new technologies of its’ little brothers.

I bought my 6071 at Best Buy, only difference is a second smaller remote. I experienced an issue with three panels that has been reported on other threads. On a light/white background there is a noticeable grid that can be seen. It is most apparent on a break-in DVD where I can bring up a white screen. Would like to know next time you look at this panel if it some thing you notice. All of them also had from 3 to five stuck/dead pixels.

It seems to be that most suffering from this issue got the 6071 from Best Buy. I was going to get the 58 600u but after living with the 6071(yes even with a grid) the Panny picture looks duller to me, almost like a grey film or dirty whites. Yes this was after adjusting the Panny while killing time waiting on the paper work for my second 6071.

So am trying to decide if I should give the 6070 another shot and hope it was a bad batch Best Buy got or move on. I do think this panel is one of the best at its’ size and price point.
The 58 panny at magnolia i seen did seem to have a "cloud' like appearance over the picture, hard to explain.. The pioneer also seemed "soft" to me when i first laid eyes on the 5070. Also the skin tones seemed to have alot of red push to them, the panasonic seemed better but also has a somewhat unrealistic tone to the tones. Either way it's hard to judge at the stores unless you can play with the remotes and play certain dvd's to try to compare. I reckon both tv's look better in the home than in the stores. For pure pQ i think the panasonic is a little better compared to the pioneer 6070, the elite version i think will be better than both.
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I am looking to update in the near future from my 50" to a 60" model.


The Pioneer 6070HD is nice, but I am going to hold out. The 60XR5A will be out soon and I am thinking with basically the same panel and NEC scaling/electronics this unit will be worth seeing. Also interested in seeing the 607CMX with a Key Digital Card.
Rich, I agree, I own the 6070. Stunning, simply stunning. Even after all this time, it still stops me in my tracks when something comes across a HD channel. Gorgeous set.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma
The Pioneer 6070HD is nice, but I am going to hold out. The 60XR5A will be out soon and I am thinking with basically the same panel and NEC scaling/electronics this unit will be worth seeing. Also interested in seeing the 607CMX with a Key Digital Card.
Will the NEC 60" be more/less/same as the 6070 in terms of price?


Any new info on the 607cmx?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbd90
Will the NEC 60" be more/less/same as the 6070 in terms of price?


Any new info on the 607cmx?
It might be more respectful to the thread starter, were you to either send Chris a Private Message or start your own thread on NEC displays, as the subject of this thread is Pioneer displays. Better still, why don't you just call Chris at Cleveland Plasma; he is the resident NEC spokesperson here and I'm sure he would be quite happy to answer all your questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaracsan
It might be more respectful to the thread starter, were you to either send Chris a Private Message or start your own thread on NEC displays, as the subject of this thread is Pioneer displays. Better still, why don't you just call Chris at Cleveland Plasma; he is the resident NEC spokesperson here and I'm sure he would be quite happy to answer all your questions.
I don't think it is out of line to discuss the natural alternatives to the 6070HD.

You yourself brought up the Panasonic 65" 1080P and a 70" JVC rear projection.


Both the 607cmx and 60XR5 have the potential to be better options for wall mounters and those with surround systems.


It also has been speculated that the Key Digital processing on the 607cmx add on board (hopefully there will be one) is superior to even the Elite version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbd90
I don't think it is out of line to discuss the natural alternatives to the 6070HD.

You yourself brought up the Panasonic 65" 1080P and a 70" JVC rear projection.


Both the 607cmx and 60XR5 have the potential to be better options for wall mounters and those with surround systems.


It also has been speculated that the Key Digital processing on the 607cmx add on board (hopefully there will be one) is superior to even the Elite version.
The big difference is: while I did mention the two displays you cited to illustrate my point about what leads me to possibly buying a 6070 or 1540 -- your questions only serve to derail the discussion of Pioneer displays. While an NEC may share glass (and some parts) with a Pioneer; it is not the subject of this thread. Discussion of an add on processor (which can never be used with a 6070 or 1540) for a commercial PDP takes the discussion further off course.


While it is somewhat amusing to watch people rise to Chris' sales bait (on the commercial NEC and Key Digital processor), it is especially irksome that is is done at almost every opportunity afforded in a Pioneer thread. You got played. Now would you please just let it go and we will try to get back to discussing the original topic? Please don't reply here. If you must continue this, please PM me instead.


My apologies to the group for the interruption.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaracsan
The big difference is: while I did mention the two displays you cited to illustrate my point about what leads me to possibly buying a 6070 or 1540 -- your questions only serve to derail the discussion of Pioneer displays. While an NEC may share glass (and some parts) with a Pioneer; it is not the subject of this thread. Discussion of an add on processor (which can never be used with a 6070 or 1540) for a commercial PDP takes the discussion further off course.


While it is somewhat amusing to watch people rise to Chris' sales bait (on the commercial NEC and Key Digital processor), it is especially irksome that is is done at almost every opportunity afforded in a Pioneer thread. You got played. Now would you please just let it go and we will try to get back to discussing the original topic? Please don't reply here. If you must continue this, please PM me instead.


My apologies to the group for the interruption.
In case you didn't know, the 607cmx is a Pioneer display, the commercial version of the 6070HD.


The Key Digital add card is for Pioneer displays that includes processing and extra inputs.


If you want to talk about the 6070HD only, I suggest you move over to the two or so threads already started on the subject.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbd90
In case you didn't know, the 607cmx is a Pioneer display, the commercial version of the 6070HD.


The Key Digital add card is for Pioneer displays that includes processing and extra inputs.


If you want to talk about the 6070HD only, I suggest you move over to the two or so threads already started on the subject.
Clearly, reading and comprehension isn't your strong suit. :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaracsan
While it is somewhat amusing to watch people rise to Chris' sales bait (on the commercial NEC and Key Digital processor), it is especially irksome that is is done at almost every opportunity afforded in a Pioneer thread. You got played. Now would you please just let it go and we will try to get back to discussing the original topic? Please don't reply here. If you must continue this, please PM me instead.
Amen!
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