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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just recently picked up my first plasma, the LG 60PS11 I got for a great price at Fry's. Included a free BD370 player so I could not resist.


I got it home and with everything set up, decided to watch some TV. HD channels over Time Warner look pretty good, and BluRays look great. So far so good...


Next I decided to hook up the Xbox360 and see how that looked, connected via HDMI. I threw COD:WAW in and unfortunately I was less than impressed. The best way I can describe what I am seeing is that when looking around in the game, the background will go slightly out of focus, to where if you are running and looking around it's hard to focus on other players in the game that might be far away. This is not like LCD motion blur/ghosting, but I guess a slight blur would describe it pretty close. I've done a bit of research and I think I am seeing ever so slight phosphor lag, very minute but if I look hard I can see it, It's not even close to what Ive seen in online videos, but it's there a tiny bit. What I could not find out though, is if phosphor lag will cause blurred motion.


So my main question is can phosphor lag, if that's what I am seeing, cause the blur/out-of-focus condition that I am seeing? I'm concerned as one of the main reasons I've wanted to go plasma is to avoid the motion blur characteristics of LCD, however the funny thing is I don't have this problem playing the game on my 32" LCD in my room.


I'm hoping the experts here can guide me, I want to know if maybe I got a bad TV, or this isn't great model, or if this is just normal for a 60" plasma, or if I need to return it and get an LCD??? One thing is the TV hasn't been calibrated, I don't know if this would be changed via a calibration, but I did change between the available preset modes and none of them really made any difference.


Any help is greatly appreciated.
 

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i know excatly waht you're talking about. It doesn't bother me anymore because I'm use to it now. But yea it almost looks like lcd is still better for gaming.


give it some time. After awhile, you'll learn that it's not a big deal
 

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I cant comment on that particular set, but by blurred motion, do you mean yellow/green trails? That is the generic phosphor lag that I know. And outside of that, I was always incredibly impressed on how clear the screen/movement was in COD4 when i tested the panasonic and samsung plasma's against their LCD counterparts. I wonder if there is something in the picture settings that is causing the screen to "blur", otherwise im wondering if its defective (considering this is supposed to be an advantage of plasma, not a detriment)
 

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Test it on some other games first to see. Many games have motion blur, which would be what you're referring to.


Keep in mind you're also scaling 720P content (which your 32" was natively capable of most likely) to 1080P on a huge screen, at that. Depending on your viewing location you may notice some slight blurring due to the scaling. If your XBOX is doing the scaling at the moment, set it to 720P instead and see how your television does at scaling it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleh19 /forum/post/16896472


I cant comment on that particular set, but by blurred motion, do you mean yellow/green trails? That is the generic phosphor lag that I know. And outside of that, I was always incredibly impressed on how clear the screen/movement was in COD4 when i tested the panasonic and samsung plasma's against their LCD counterparts. I wonder if there is something in the picture settings that is causing the screen to "blur", otherwise im wondering if its defective (considering this is supposed to be an advantage of plasma, not a detriment)

I've heard many other folks make the same comments regarding how good their games looked, so this is part of what makes me a little concerned about this set.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 /forum/post/16896520


Do you have it in the proper mode? Not familiar with LG's but have you tried different settings to see if it helps any?

I tried all of the other factory settings, and all seemed to have the same condition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus /forum/post/16896671


Test it on some other games first to see. Many games have motion blur, which would be what you're referring to.


Keep in mind you're also scaling 720P content (which your 32" was natively capable of most likely) to 1080P on a huge screen, at that. Depending on your viewing location you may notice some slight blurring due to the scaling. If your XBOX is doing the scaling at the moment, set it to 720P instead and see how your television does at scaling it.

\\


You know I thought this might be an issue as well, however when I checked the settings on the xbox, it was already set to 720p. I went ahead and changed it to 1080p to see if there was any difference and it is the same.


I did try a couple other games that have less motion and they look fine, it mainly seems to be FPS and the fact that you change your field of vision so quickly.
 

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Yes, some features on these newer sets actually add motion blur to get rid of picture noise, ect. You should most of the time turn ALL of them off when you have a good signal(blu-ray, hd games, ect.) Also, I have found out with my 42" G10 that some games are actually 30fps, so the frame is doubled. I noticed it maybe twice or so before the new tv, but it is something seen on the new tv. It looks like judder, seen when the screen pans or crosses the screen from side to side. I've seen it on Fallout, Halo, and COD. Somewhere here is a thread about it....


COD so far is the worst case of phosphor lag I have seen on anything yet. I consider it The test for phosphor lag on newer sets.


And, wow. Gaming on a lcd is just plain awful. Blur and lag...if anything, its best on an old crt!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by markd27 /forum/post/16897700


I tried all of the other factory settings, and all seemed to have the same condition.

Phosphor artifacts cannot be eliminated by changing settings. It sounds like you have sensitive eyes, so that's why you observe this inherent issue with plasmas - Pioneer is the worst for this. The higher end 2009 plasmas from Panasonic and Samsung would show this issue less, but are not completely immune.


You'll either need to get used to seeing yellow/blue phosphor trails (less observable after >3000 hrs of use), or switch to a non-plasma display!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
There is some good info in that thread.


I wouldn't describe what I am seeing as judder, the image is not jumpy or anything like what I associate with judder. It's slightly blurry and out of focus when panning around.


I tried a few different games last night and I actually found another issue that I only see in one or two games, specifically the Lego games on the 360. When walking side to side causing the screen to have to scroll right or left, if you jump causing an upward or downward movement, a line will come down the screen.


It's transparent and the best way to describe it is like a visual crease that extends from the left to the right side of the screen and goes all the way down or sometimes halfway down and then back up the screen. I only saw this on the Lego games my kid has, didn't see this happening in COD or GOW.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb32 /forum/post/16902139


Phosphor artifacts cannot be eliminated by changing settings. It sounds like you have sensitive eyes, so that's why you observe this inherent issue with plasmas - Pioneer is the worst for this. The higher end 2009 plasmas from Panasonic and Samsung would show this issue less, but are not completely immune.


You'll either need to get used to seeing yellow/blue phosphor trails (less observable after >3000 hrs of use), or switch to a non-plasma display!

So phosphor lag will in fact appear as blurred/out-of-focus motion?


I can barely see the green if at all when moving very quickly. The main reason I was a little doubtful it was phosphor lag, was I can even pan slowly to my right or left and the background will still go out of focus, and in the slower movement condition there is zero phosphor lag green that I can see.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by markd27 /forum/post/16902448


So phosphor lag will in fact appear as blurred/out-of-focus motion?
You are absolutely correct. You'll also really notice the effect when receiving damage when playing Bioshock (another example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by markd27 /forum/post/16902448


I can barely see the green if at all when moving very quickly. The main reason I was a little doubtful it was phosphor lag, was I can even pan slowly to my right or left and the background will still go out of focus, and in the slower movement condition there is zero phosphor lag green that I can see.

There are other ways that it will manifest itself. Do yourself a favor and not watch any black and white content... as you'll see other colors as well..


EDIT:

As a disclaimer, if you do not see phosphor lag/trails with your particular PDP, then you simply cannot see them. They still exist for those who can observe them...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb32 /forum/post/16902630

You are absolutely correct. You'll also really notice the effect when receiving damage when playing Bioshock (another example).




There are other ways that it will manifest itself. Do yourself a favor and not watch any black and white content... as you'll see other colors as well..


EDIT:

As a disclaimer, if you do not see phosphor lag/trails with your particular PDP, then you simply cannot see them. They still exist for those who can observe them...

Thanks for the info. Seems I may need to think about going a different direction. I never intended on this being my main gaming TV anyways, but I think knowing I paid that much money for it and I can't even game on it if I need to will just bother me continually.
 

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Ouch... I did not want to hear this about gaming with the 360 on this set. I am about to pick this 60"er from Frys too for the master bedroom for us but I game quite a bit. This won't be my main set either but i feel you with wanting to be able to game on it if I wanted to.


It won't be a deterrent for me for picking this set as more than likely the fiance will not want me gaming in the bedroom anyways. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDoor /forum/post/16904587


Ouch... I did not want to hear this about gaming with the 360 on this set. I am about to pick this 60"er from Frys too for the master bedroom for us but I game quite a bit. This won't be my main set either but i feel you with wanting to be able to game on it if I wanted to.


It won't be a deterrent for me for picking this set as more than likely the fiance will not want me gaming in the bedroom anyways. LOL

Well, if and when you do pick pick it up, try out COD4 or COD:WAW and let me know how it looks for you. I don't think what I am seeing is just my eyes, so if it's just the quality of the set then you'd concur with what I am seeing. I'm still holding out a little bit of hope, albeit it small, that maybe I got a bad set and can exchange it for a better one.


I tell you what though, everything else looks great so far with this TV, I'm watching the Rangers-Tigers game as I type this on FSNHD and it looks awesome. One other downside though is the reflection on this thing, as someone else said this screen is like a mirror, so we have a couple of curtains to put up on windows that are behind our sofa opposite the TV.
 

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"Phosphor Lag"


Start the game as usual. Turn the color all the way down until the picture is completely Black & White. Start playing the game, if you see a greenish or yellowish trail on either side of any moving scene during game play than that is phosphor lag.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by markd27 /forum/post/16904658


Well, if and when you do pick pick it up, try out COD4 or COD:WAW and let me know how it looks for you. I don't think what I am seeing is just my eyes, so if it's just the quality of the set then you'd concur with what I am seeing. I'm still holding out a little bit of hope, albeit it small, that maybe I got a bad set and can exchange it for a better one.


I tell you what though, everything else looks great so far with this TV, I'm watching the Rangers-Tigers game as I type this on FSNHD and it looks awesome. One other downside though is the reflection on this thing, as someone else said this screen is like a mirror, so we have a couple of curtains to put up on windows that are behind our sofa opposite the TV.

I dont have COD: WAW but have COD4 packed away somewhere. The main game I still play is Halo3 and should be able to see any kind of lag with the set with that game as I play H3 pretty much on a semidaily basis. I'll report back when I get things hooked up but that may not be for a little while as we're painting the master bedroom right now.


How does the set look with FSNHD when the players are running? Are you noticing any kind of blur with sports? Does the set have a "gaming" setting by chance?
 
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