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I understand, but then do you also think Dolby Vision is not proper tone mapping? Although in this context the question is not as simple as that.
Agreed it's not that simple. I dunno...it seems the general consensus is those who own lumagen or envy don't bother with LLDV, which leads me to conclude LLDV isn't as ideal a solution.


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I am sure you know that the answer depends on who/where you ask the question. If you ask that question in a JVC echo chamber you will get one answer. Look at blind comparisons where the audience don't know which they are evaluating. Those comparisons are more likely to be unbiased:


For anybody who doesn't speak Italian and is wondering what they think (sorry for the copy-paste, but this is the content of the video): This is the second time they do this kind of survey, but in a different city. The first time, in Milan, the JVC has been a clear winner with ~90 votes against ~60 for Sony. This time, it's a tie between the two, with the Sony receiving more praise for detail while the JVC is regarded for its better contrast. However, this is what appears from the votes where the people were forced to choose between one or the other, while when they are asked what they think they all say that they're very much identical one to the other with little to no difference being noticeable between the two.

If you read the posts of folks who have owned and currently own both projectors the conclusion is both brand's current lineup is very close and the differences between them very slight. It will come down to personal preferences and the specific content that you watch.
I am Italian and I would like to add a detail from the video. I think an essential detail. For the blind shootout they created an external DTM so that both projectors could receive and display the ‘same’ signal. They don’t specify what they used for the DTM. The essential point is that the Sony doesn’t have an ‘internal’ DTM. In other words the projectors looked very close but only once the Sony had a help (big?) in handling HDR. I think this point should be considered once you compare one-to-one. We all know the jvc is just plug in and go, not the same for Sony
 

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I am Italian and I would like to add a detail from the video. I think an essential detail. For the blind shootout they created an external DTM so that both projectors could receive and display the ‘same’ signal. They don’t specify what they used for the DTM. The essential point is that the Sony doesn’t have an ‘internal’ DTM. In other words the projectors looked very close but only once the Sony had a help (big?) in handling HDR. I think this point should be considered once you compare one-to-one. We all know the jvc is just plug in and go, not the same for Sony
Jvc tonemapping isnt a panacea and isn't as good as lumagen or envy.


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Agreed it's not that simple. I dunno...it seems the general consensus is those who own lumagen or envy don't bother with LLDV, which leads me to conclude LLDV isn't as ideal a solution.


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Agreed... at best in some situations it might be redundant. I'd also concede, as both Lumagen and Envy continue to refine performance, greater nuance is being brought to bare on HDR mapping.
 

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They should have used the lens they used in the VW60 for the 4K units. That was a super sharp all glass lens of a similar size to the N5 and N7.
I don't remember if it was "all glass" but it was the same lens used in the VW100 which I owned. The lens from the VW60/VW100 could not properly resolve 4K from the larger 4K SXRD imager with the same MTF as the lens chosen. It was also not the same quality as the Zeiss used in the then flagship VW200. That Zeiss became the blueprint for the range topping 4K lens used in the VW1000.
 

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Jvc tonemapping isnt a panacea and isn't as good as lumagen or envy.


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Well, Jvc DTM is not a panacea. It really ‘cures’ HDR performance. I may agree that the HDR>SDR conversion is a panacea, but that’s another point. It’s a ‘reality’ that comparing the two projectors naked as the come from factory JVC will definitely beat the Sony as to HDR performance. And not only...
 

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I am Italian and I would like to add a detail from the video. I think an essential detail. For the blind shootout they created an external DTM so that both projectors could receive and display the ‘same’ signal. They don’t specify what they used for the DTM. The essential point is that the Sony doesn’t have an ‘internal’ DTM. In other words the projectors looked very close but only once the Sony had a help (big?) in handling HDR. I think this point should be considered once you compare one-to-one. We all know the jvc is just plug in and go, not the same for Sony
Appreciate the additional translation, thanks.

From what I have read, the JVC FA is not anymore plug and play than the Sony DHDRE but is slightly easier to use. They both require manual adjustments for each title (Low, Medium, High, ... ) to create the best HDR experience. The JVC appears to be better than the Sony but certainly not at the level of the Lumagen or madVR.

From the last VW915es review I read it suggests that you can get a good HDR result from the Sony if you set the levers correctly for difficult title you want to watch. A bit tedious but frankly I would start there knowing that I could add a LLDV, madVR, or Lumagen down the road if I did not want to set a few items before I watched a difficult movie.
 

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That is not what the @Kris Deering review concluded:
you are quoting archibald...but perhaps unaware of his post and perspective its coming from ... that of a current 760ES owner !

Kris' review all respect to him is from perspective of 760Es he originally reviewed (he clearly states that) which is distinctly different from Archibald's perspective of a current fully updated 760ES especially given the significant update it received since initial release...

if go back and read Archibald's posts you will see he cant understand the fluff because what is being talked about as new he is pretty sure was always there sine the last update :D
 

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From the last VW915es review I read it suggests that you can get a good HDR result from the Sony if you set the levers correctly for difficult title you want to watch. A bit tedious but frankly I would start there knowing that I could add a LLDV, madVR, or Lumagen down the road if I did not want to set a few items before I watched a difficult movie.
not exactly ... the sony as has been clearly shown by reviewers clips and crushes this has been shown many times...... and this is NOT what dynamic tone mapping does ? certainly not what JVC or add on devices do in lumagen or Madvr

do you have experience of JVCs dynamic tone mapping ? yes in current incarnation you will still need to setup your projector to suit setup. I reckon eg if you go with a massive screen and ending up with SDR level luminance for isntance there only SO much anything can do to save it ... projectors in general are NOT plug and play devices...

the JVC update coming will actually even look at your projectors parameters... eg lamp age...lamp settings screen size and gain that you put in physically ...it can work out throw from zoom. and it takes that in account to what is probably going to be best we get for plug and play...

my jvc since the dynamic tone mapping update has been set forget since initial setup...which was quite minimal... i can only wish every projector maker does incorporate something like this epson, sony. benq optoma etc... its what we should have had from day one of UHD and HDR... why any would not want that I dont know ...
 

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you are quoting archibald...but perhaps unaware of his post and perspective its coming from ... that of a current 760ES owner !

Kris' review all respect to him is from perspective of 760Es he originally reviewed (he clearly states that) which is distinctly different from Archibald's perspective of a current fully updated 760ES especially given the significant update it received since initial release...

if go back and read Archibald's posts you will see he cant understand the fluff because what is being talked about as new he is pretty sure was always there sine the last update :D
I don't believe that @archibald has even seen a VW915.

Perhaps you should read the review. It has a line which references the VW915 as an update of the updated VW885. Did you miss that? Kris mentioned very specific improvements over the updated VW760/885. Did you miss that part of the review.
 

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Perhaps you should read the review. It has a line which references the VW915 as an update of the updated VW885. Did you miss that? Kris mentioned very specific improvements over the updated VW760/885. Did you miss that part of the review.
gosh ! I have read the review ! he has been quite clear that the 760 he reviewed was the original one not the one more recently with the updates ! and he is talking about the 790ES and improvements from perspective of that original one he reviewed !

from the full review below

incase unclear, perhaps read through. you might read how time and time again how he compares it to the original version...

"Three years ago, Sony introduced the VPL-VW885ES, a 4K LCOS projector with a laser light engine. I found the 885ES to be capable of throwing high-quality images when I reviewed it, but in the end wasn't fully enamored with the new projector. Basically, I felt it had obvious shortcomings that were hard to ignore at the premium $25,000 price. And while the company issued a firmware update in 2019 that directly addressed some points I had complained about in my review, the 885ES is now being replaced in Sony's projector lineup with the VPL-VW915ES, a model that builds on the successful aspects of the previous design while coming in at a lower $20,000 price point.,.."

he even talks about stuff that was originally missing (and was appleid with the firmware update) on the 885ES... that he is glad to see...

"Going through the setup menus on the 915ES, I was glad to see that Sony now provides independent image settings for HDR inputs—the same feature that was brought to the 885ES in a 2019 firmware update..."

"When I first reviewed Sony's 885ES..."

"Another complaint I had with the 885ES was the lack of any iris support. The dynamic laser dimming system in that model did help with contrast, but it wasn't as effective as a dynamic iris, a feature included in Sony's lamp-based projectors...."

I believe archibald can confirm this was applied via firmware update to the 885ES...

and so on...am sure can read all the continual references to the original 885Es...

there are no doubt some improvements over the original released 885Es...but as Archibald has said time and again here ... with his fully updated 760ES things talked about he seems to have ... :D
 

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Jvc tonemapping isnt a panacea and isn't as good as lumagen or envy.


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not a panacea... but include with the projector and being improved on shortly at further no additional cost... something i wish all projectors have ...why not especially at the price things like sony go for ...
 

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gosh ! I have read the review ! he has been quite clear that the 760 he reviewed was the original one not the one more recently with the updates ! and he is talking about the 790ES and improvements from perspective of that original one he reviewed !
Archibald still has not seen a VW790 so not sure how he can opine a comparison. If you check the 885 and 995 threads Kris has seen the 885 update and reviewed the 995 which delivered said features! Here Kris' quote from the conclusion:

Sony's new VPL-VW915ES may represent only a slight update of the company's recently upgraded (via a free firmware update) VPL-VW885ES, but it's a sizable improvement over the original version of the 885ES that I reviewed three years ago. The 915ES also showed significant improvement in color uniformity and contouring, two artifacts that I found particularly distracting on previous Sony projectors I've tested.
 

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Sony's new VPL-VW915ES may represent only a slight update of the company's recently upgraded (via a free firmware update) VPL-VW885ES, but it's a sizable improvement over the original version of the 885ES that I reviewed three years ago. The 915ES also showed significant improvement in color uniformity and contouring, two artifacts that I found particularly distracting on previous Sony projectors I've tested.
good gosh man ! are you trying so desperately to convince yourself or something :O did you not read over and over and over again the the review what he has said !

even if you DONT want to read over and over again what is said ...perhaps READ what is said even in what you quote . I dont think Kris could be any clearer !

I bolded it for you ... maybe will then read it :D
but it's a sizable improvement over the original version of the 885ES that I reviewed three years ago
I'll leave it there as this is clearly a LOST CAUSE ! :D
 

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Why cant we just accept that certain brands have flaws, as do other brands? Everyone has a gripe. Thats ok, that can be allowed.
So, you're saying: what's good for the goose? ...you don't mean like when a JVC dealer or JVC owners used to pop into the DLP threads and didn't talk about convergence errors, yellowing DI-caused text, blue stripes, gamma droop but basically threw shade on the DLPs at hand and then just exited the thread. 😄 You wonder why some of the DLP guys got defense. 😏
 

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So, you're saying: what's good for the goose? ...you don't mean like when a JVC dealer or JVC owners used to pop into the DLP threads and didn't talk about convergence errors, yellowing DI-caused text, blue stripes, gamma droop but basically threw shade on the DLPs at hand and then just exited the thread. 😄 You wonder why some of the DLP guys got defense. 😏
Or you mean when I had an actual LK990 here and spent 40 hours with it, that I was reduced to a fan boy who didnt know what I was doing because I threw shade at things I was actually looking at with my own two eyes and the other guy didnt agree?

Same thing happened merely a week ago with another stout DLP advocate, because I dont have his 700 lumen masterpiece, my opinion isnt worth a damn because I highlighted flaws in the laser DLP I have here when I actually have a two projector stack and not looking at white paper impulse measurements?.

The merry goes round!
 

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Or you mean when I had an actual LK990 here and spent 40 hours with it, that I was reduced to a fan boy who didnt know what I was doing because I threw shade at things I was actually looking at with my own two eyes and the other guy didnt agree?

Same thing happened merely a week ago with another stout DLP advocate, because I dont have his 700 lumen masterpiece, my opinion isnt worth a damn because I highlighted flaws in the laser DLP I have here when I actually have a two projector stack and not looking at white paper impulse measurements?.

The merry goes round!
I'm not referencing you. You have a DLP now so you're in the club. 😄😄
 

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I'm not referencing you. You have a DLP now so you're in the club.
Touche! I dont like being left out.

I do love it by the way. It's a hell of a machine. I'm under no illusions about it's contrast though which brings me back to my previous point.
 

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Well, Jvc DTM is not a panacea. It really ‘cures’ HDR performance. I may agree that the HDR>SDR conversion is a panacea, but that’s another point. It’s a ‘reality’ that comparing the two projectors naked as the come from factory JVC will definitely beat the Sony as to HDR performance. And not only...
I had both the Sony 695 and the JVC NX7. The NX7 looked cleaner and had better contrast down low. Its dynamic iris also was very effective when compared with the Sony's. But the 695 in True Cinema had excellent motion appearance which in my opinion bested the JVC's when the Sony was in that mode.
 

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I had both the Sony 695 and the JVC NX7. The NX7 looked cleaner and had better contrast down low. Its dynamic iris also was very effective when compared with the Sony's. But the 695 in True Cinema had excellent motion appearance which in my opinion bested the JVC's when the Sony was in that mode.
good on you Az !

being able to talk about pros and cons of these things is what its all about... unless someone is just here to fog something or a brand defender or something makes no sense to just bang on with pros and put head in sand on the cons :D

this forum would be a pretty boring place if it was just a flog fest ! :D
 
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