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I can tell you in an objective sense that this is not true. Pull up any single pixel test pattern and it will clearly show the deficiencies I outlined above. All 4K SXRD projectors have this inherent flaw, though as I've mentioned, it's better than it used to be, but still there unfortunately. The problem is that they cannot map discreet pixel information found in the source to every pixel displayed on screen simultaneously. Because of this, there is a slight loss of digital resolution and image bit depth. And if you don't enable game mode, there is noise reduction as well that can't be turned off. This has the potential to wipe away film grain. I suspect this is why some feel the JVC's image is noisier, but that's only because it's showing all that's in the source, be it good or bad. The JVC models do not suffer these same problems. This is not bias towards JVC, it's simply the truth.

The same can be said about lens quality. The Sonys don't have "bad" lens quality. On the contrary. You still get a very sharp image overall. It's just that the lens used on the JVC models is simply a little better than what Sony is offering at comparable price points. They cannot focus down on pixels as well and focus uniformity across the image is not as impressive either. Again, this is not bias towards JVC, it's simply the truth. Though, I will add that it seems Sony bins their lenses. The more expensive models that share the non-ARC-F lens seem to get lens samples closer to spec. The lens on my 915ES review unit is pretty good, about as good as the lens found in the N5/NX7. But it's not as good as the lens on the similarly priced NX9. The lens used on the NX9 is pretty close to the ARC-F lens.

Part of the issue with these shootouts is that most of the ones I've attended have Reality Creation on the Sony projector set pretty high and the JVC's comparable smart sharpening is not set to a similar level. And this is more than likely the reason why the attendees saw the Sony as "sharper". Sharpness is not one of the bigger differentiating features that I'd even discuss between these two brands. Both are similar enough, but I think the JVCs have edge over the Sonys.

Sometimes I wish we all lived closer together. I would gladly invite people over to show you all of these differences and to finally put these arguments to bed. Both Sony and JVC make great projectors. Both brands have their pros and cons. But let's try and at least agree on some of these basic things. No reviewer I've met or talked to who has reviewed current Sony and JVC projectors will say Sony has the lead here. That's because it's not true.
Yep, seen the N7, NX9, 760 , Z1 9900, 7900, all in one go. The Sony had a very nice and shapr image but I do know what to look for to srutinise the image so JVC won every time especially when looking at PQ as a whole yet for the average consumer put on a nice and bright HDR source and they may say the Sony is better, just like in store shop floor where the TVs are set to display mode.
I like the JVC because "garbage in garbage out" you see exactly what you input without any artificial undefeatable processing.
 

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Agreed it's not that simple. I dunno...it seems the general consensus is those who own lumagen or envy don't bother with LLDV, which leads me to conclude LLDV isn't as ideal a solution.
An ex-patriot friend of ours would say...

I’m sorry but there’s no way a calculated algorithm from a video processor will outdo an actual colorist who mastered the DV trim pass of the movie the exact way the director intended and signed off on. If it’s not as good, then it isn’t setup properly.

LLDV from an original Dolby Vision mastered disc is superior. Whatever the processor is doing may be made to appear “better”, but it’s not what and how it was intended to look.


Here is an interesting test pattern that might help reveal subjective bias in our perceptions of tone mapping performance. :)

Do you see squares?

Do you see circles? If yes, how many?

3047679
 

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My problem is the comment "particularly LLDV". That makes it sound like LLDV Is better than proper tonemapping. I just don't agree with that.


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Maybe I should have clarified, but what I said was in the context of alongside the Contrast Enhancer, which LLDV works very well with in my experience.
And LLDV IS a proper solution. From Dolby. Like it or not, it is there and it works well.
 

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That is not what the @Kris Deering review concluded:

Given the limitations of the iris/laser dimming solution in the 915ES, its overall contrast performance was still quite good. Sony continues to make some of the best projectors at any price point when it comes to dynamic range, with only JVC's lineup delivering better performance, and even then, only when you get extremely close to absolute black.
...
Sony's new VPL-VW915ES may represent only a slight update of the company's recently upgraded (via a free firmware update) VPL-VW885ES, but it's a sizable improvement over the original version of the 885ES that I reviewed three years ago. The 915ES also showed significant improvement in color uniformity and contouring, two artifacts that I found particularly distracting on previous Sony projectors I've tested. This new laser-based 4K model's out-of-box color accuracy and contrast performance contribute to an image that will no doubt dazzle even the most discerning videophile.


Hmmm, he himself admitted that he was comparing to the original version of the 885 before iris activation and other improvements. It is very easy to get confused, but I am only ever talking in relation to a fully updated 760/885.
All Kris's comments relate to an 885 unit that had original release firmware that has been improved upon greatly since.
I don't have any issues with colour uniformity or contouring either.
 
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I understand, but then do you also think Dolby Vision is not proper tone mapping? Although in this context the question is not as simple as that.
I am sure Dolby would think it is.
 
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Agreed it's not that simple. I dunno...it seems the general consensus is those who own lumagen or envy don't bother with LLDV, which leads me to conclude LLDV isn't as ideal a solution.


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I would say that the only ideal solution is one where the display in question does not have to tone map at all. :)
 

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Maybe I should have clarified, but what I said was in the context of alongside the Contrast Enhancer, which LLDV works very well with in my experience.
And LLDV IS a proper solution. From Dolby. Like it or not, it is there and it works well.
We can agree to disagree. I don't think dolby thinks injecting an hd fury into the chain and spoofing edid is something they would support, since they're so stringent about what gets dolby certification.


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Maybe I should have clarified, but what I said was in the context of alongside the Contrast Enhancer, which LLDV works very well with in my experience.
And LLDV IS a proper solution. From Dolby. Like it or not, it is there and it works well.
Given, the CE and DHDRE might both want to work within a 1000-2000 nit reference curve range, and DV LLDV is a DV trim pass targeted in that range, it would seem like a marriage made in heaven. Even HDR10, if it's not a crazy SDR grade in an HDR wrapper like Blade Runner 2049, does quite well.
 

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I don't remember if it was "all glass" but it was the same lens used in the VW100 which I owned. The lens from the VW60/VW100 could not properly resolve 4K from the larger 4K SXRD imager with the same MTF as the lens chosen. It was also not the same quality as the Zeiss used in the then flagship VW200. That Zeiss became the blueprint for the range topping 4K lens used in the VW1000.
How do you know that? Did you try? I wish I had now, but it would have been a right palaver getting my 760 down from the ceiling just to check something which I had no real incentive to do at the time.
The lens on my VW60 was incredibly sharp. So sharp it would have been easy to make out 4 pixels for every one that was there if the panel had been the relevant resolution.
Of course the Zeiss lens would have been better, but they stopped using those didn't they.
I am merely reporting what I saw with my own eyes with what I had in front of me.
 
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gosh ! I have read the review ! he has been quite clear that the 760 he reviewed was the original one not the one more recently with the updates ! and he is talking about the 790ES and improvements from perspective of that original one he reviewed !

from the full review below

incase unclear, perhaps read through. you might read how time and time again how he compares it to the original version...

"Three years ago, Sony introduced the VPL-VW885ES, a 4K LCOS projector with a laser light engine. I found the 885ES to be capable of throwing high-quality images when I reviewed it, but in the end wasn't fully enamored with the new projector. Basically, I felt it had obvious shortcomings that were hard to ignore at the premium $25,000 price. And while the company issued a firmware update in 2019 that directly addressed some points I had complained about in my review, the 885ES is now being replaced in Sony's projector lineup with the VPL-VW915ES, a model that builds on the successful aspects of the previous design while coming in at a lower $20,000 price point.,.."

he even talks about stuff that was originally missing (and was appleid with the firmware update) on the 885ES... that he is glad to see...

"Going through the setup menus on the 915ES, I was glad to see that Sony now provides independent image settings for HDR inputs—the same feature that was brought to the 885ES in a 2019 firmware update..."

"When I first reviewed Sony's 885ES..."

"Another complaint I had with the 885ES was the lack of any iris support. The dynamic laser dimming system in that model did help with contrast, but it wasn't as effective as a dynamic iris, a feature included in Sony's lamp-based projectors...."

I believe archibald can confirm this was applied via firmware update to the 885ES...

and so on...am sure can read all the continual references to the original 885Es...

there are no doubt some improvements over the original released 885Es...but as Archibald has said time and again here ... with his fully updated 760ES things talked about he seems to have ... :D
Absolutely. Seems that point is lost on some.
I don't think one has to see a 790 to be able to ascertain that is it basically a 760 with a new coat.
 
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Absolutely. Seems that point is lost on some.
I don't think one has to see a 790 to be able to ascertain that is it basically a 760 with a new coat.
But you yourself have admitted you don't know this for certain.

I think it's dangerous to spread opinions as facts.


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We can agree to disagree. I don't think dolby thinks injecting an hd fury into the chain and spoofing edid is something they would support, since they're so stringent about what gets dolby certification.


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In this case, it is a work around, a mod, a hack. It is allowing those without endless cash to be able to get at least some form of dynamic mapping that is an actual Dolby system.
And as you can use the Vertex2 to tell the DV string what luminance your PJ display actually is, you can get it to tone map exactly to the right level.
Looks spectacular if done right.
 

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Yep, seen the N7, NX9, 760 , Z1 9900, 7900, all in one go. The Sony had a very nice and shapr image but I do know what to look for to srutinise the image so JVC won every time especially when looking at PQ as a whole yet for the average consumer put on a nice and bright HDR source and they may say the Sony is better, just like in store shop floor where the TVs are set to display mode.
I like the JVC because "garbage in garbage out" you see exactly what you input without any artificial undefeatable processing.
I don't want anyone to think the lens found on the 915ES is bad. It's very, very good. Convergence on my review unit is probably the best I've seen from any Sony projector to date. I had to make one small adjustment and it's now essentially perfect. Pixel delineation is quite good too. As is focus uniformity. See the attached photo of the 915ES.

My NX9 is just a little better at focusing down on pixels. Convergence on my NX9 is not as good as this 915ES. But from a seated distance back you can't see the small deficiency in convergence, so it's a non-issue. It's also a bit difficult to post comparison pictures because the JVC models have better pixel-fill performance. It's to the point where you can't really see much of a pixel grid. The pixels sort of just meld into each other, with almost no black boarder. The Sony's have a more distinct pixel grid upon close inspection.

 

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But you yourself have admitted you don't know this for certain.

I think it's dangerous to spread opinions as facts.


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If it was something life or death, maybe.... This is only about big TVs in essence.
For the record, I have never said it was a fact, I have read and watched and listened and have concluded what I have.
Many agree with me.
I am confident I am right and sooner or later I will see if I am.
 

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Given, the CE and DHDRE might both want to work within a 1000-2000 nit reference curve range, and DV LLDV is a DV trim pass targeted in that range, it would seem like a marriage made in heaven. Even HDR10, if it's not a crazy SDR grade in an HDR wrapper like Blade Runner 2049, does quite well.
Indeed. In my first hand experience with it, it works superbly well. But I only use it for native Dolby sources, I do not convert anything to DV.
 
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An ex-patriot friend of ours would say...

I’m sorry but there’s no way a calculated algorithm from a video processor will outdo an actual colorist who mastered the DV trim pass of the movie the exact way the director intended and signed off on. If it’s not as good, then it isn’t setup properly.

LLDV from an original Dolby Vision mastered disc is superior. Whatever the processor is doing may be made to appear “better”, but it’s not what and how it was intended to look.


Here is an interesting test pattern that might help reveal subjective bias in our perceptions of tone mapping performance. :)

Do you see squares?

Do you see circles? If yes, how many?

View attachment 3047679
So I see squares on my monitor. What does that tell me?
 

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I don’t see circles or squares on my phone, I only see rectangles and lines.
Yes, technically they are rectangular, but I didn't want to say in case I fell in to some sort of trap. ;)
Suffice to say I see no curves in that image whatsoever.
 

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Archibald still has not seen a VW790 so not sure how he can opine a comparison. If you check the 885 and 995 threads Kris has seen the 885 update and reviewed the 995 which delivered said features! Here Kris' quote from the conclusion:

Sony's new VPL-VW915ES may represent only a slight update of the company's recently upgraded (via a free firmware update) VPL-VW885ES, but it's a sizable improvement over the original version of the 885ES that I reviewed three years ago. The 915ES also showed significant improvement in color uniformity and contouring, two artifacts that I found particularly distracting on previous Sony projectors I've tested.
It sounds like you are reading this sentence and saying it is for a fact an improvement, but that is not what it says.

"Sony's new VPL-VW915ES may represent only a slight update of the company's recently upgraded (via a free firmware update) VPL-VW885ES"

That little word may, It might be a slight update and it might not be any improvement at all. You can't take that sentence and change it to it is an improvement for sure.
 
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