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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/1020#post_23851898


Wondering is what keeps this forum alive. But our wonderment makes people worry needlessly. None of this makes very much difference. If the DI is keeping you up nights worrying why you do not see the bad effects or good effects other people see, just shut it off.

Wondering is not worrying:)


My remark was in fact positive, so if the above was addressed to me there must be some kind of misunderstanding. I was only saying that the addition of the new II might help us to find a better compromise between on/off and ANSI contrast, as we might be able to open the iris a bit more than we would with just the manual iris (to get better ANSI) while still getting a decent on/off (thanks to the II).
 

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I agree. My question is what will JVC choose as the default auto? It must be a default that is independent of the manual iris setting I would think. My guess is to open it up full
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/1040_40#post_23852265


Wondering is not worrying:)


My remark was in fact positive, so if the above was addressed to me there must be some kind of misunderstanding. I was only saying that the addition of the new II might help us to find a better compromise between on/off and ANSI contrast, as we might be able to open the iris a bit more than we would with just the manual iris (to get better ANSI) while still getting a decent on/off (thanks to the II).
Yes, I was think something similar....the new II may change the way I set the manual iris (when using the II).
 

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FWIW, from GaryB's picture of the II menu setting, it also seems like there is some level of control over the new Clear Black feature (it's set on "high" in the photo of the menu). I know not everyone is enthusiastic about

this feature, but I'm curious to see it.
 

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My comment about people worrying is related to how much we obsess and criticize implementations here. We say it should do this and it doesn't etc and then people say its no good and cross a projector off their list of candidates thinking its no good. we tend to be perfectionists here and many think they are smarter than company engineers and the people who price their products based on costs and needed margins. They should sell it for x, I often read. Price it like a no cost commodity and assuming people want it you can pretty much control demand. Sony could sell all the VPL-vw600ES they wanted to realistically make pricing it say below $1.5K.
 

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This forum is called av science and is one the few places where one can raise these questions and discuss these things. If these threads are just sales pitches for people who don't know the difference between ansi and on/off contrast and are not interested to find out, then maybe this is not the place anymore to discuss av science, which would be sad.
 

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I didn't say that either. AV Science serves many purposes for its users. Some come here to get simple questions answered, to get advice, to get recommendations, and to discuss the science, engineering, pricing, and durability of AV products. To ***** about how they were handled by somebody somewhere and to praise great service. Lots of other things. Some just social among AV friends.



Once again, the science is discussed by scientists and pretenders, and so is the engineering. This is good and this must be the place to do it. I am just concerned how the less obsessed and less versed users of this forum might take our debates and criticisms. We make minor things appear as deal breakers which they might be for a few but not for the vast majority. The sales guys here tend to put things into perspective without offending anyone. I don't have that restriction.
I obviously without any such intent have offended you. I just saying we need to step back on occasion and put our findings in proper perspective.


What would I summarize about our discussions of JVCs II. They are still tweaking it and we will have to wait to see how its implemented on production units. It looks like it will be useable even if you want to limit the maximum brightness that will hit your screen. It will be tweakable by the user. It will have some artifacts which can be reduced by tweaking and it will likely be even better in a year since this is JVC's first crack at doing something like this. For the non technically inclined, you can just turn it on in one of two modes and enjoy it without tweaking. Making your blacks darker. If you are a purist and have drunk the non DI cool aide that JVC used to pass out, you have the option of not turning it one. Its all good. And the sales guy in me says JVC has improved many things this year over last year's model and providing for an II, that the user can tweak if so inclined, or can be turned off is a good thing.


This summary leaves a lot of the technical stuff out but if you are so inclined you can read the full discussion by the nerds and turds, just kidding, and its not important that you understand everything they are saying. Some of them don't even understand it themselves.
 

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With the way JVC used to have the iris, to get the stated contrast spec, you had to mount the projector at long throw and close down the iris. When you used the projector with the iris open, you lost contrast. Now with the dynamic iris, using the projector with the iris open, allows you to still achieve the higher contrast. Since very few people use their JVC in long throw with the iris closed down, this looks like a win for most everybody. For those that do not like a dynamic iris, they have the option to turn it off. Lots of guessing here regarding the implementation, but those that went to CEDIA have all said how good the JVC's looked and this was with software that is still being tweaked. In fact the software for these projectors is tweaked and tested right up to the point that they are shipped to distributors because they are shipped to JVC USA and others without the software. The projectors are then flashed with the software right before going to distributors. So any review before the projectors are actually shipped will most likely not be the final configuration. This means for us to get clear answers on what exactly is going on will only come from an actual review of the product, once it starts shipping.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/1020#post_23853649


Now with the dynamic iris, using the projector with the iris open, allows you to still achieve the higher contrast.

I am glad JVC finally included a DI, we are going to see some truly amazing low APL scenes I imagine, but I still say mount that sucker as far back as you possibly can...


Not to ruin the party, but as you know the dynamic on/off measurement only measures the DI's reaction to pure black, this is not the same as how much the black level is affected in mixed scenes by the DI vs. Native, as the DI is forced to lower the reaction amount in mixed scenes due to unsightly side effects.


Some experiments in the forum would show that on a Sony IRIS, the actual effects of the DI in mixed contrast scenes are approximately 1/2 to 1/4 of what a native on/off would do regarding black levels. So if you can do 30,000:1 on/off with a DI, the equivalent black level in any "mostly low APL scene" but with a few bright whites is usually only half as good as a projector that can do 30,000:1 Natively on/off, but in the lowest APL scenes where there are no whites and only muddy grays, it may get very close to native though.
 

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Plus all things being equal, the lens will perform best optically in most regards at long throw. BUT The choice of mounting points is often dictated by the amount of light one needs with a projector normally putting out about 30% or so more light at short vs long throw.
 

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Lots of speculation here. Fun stuff. I'm looking foward to what this new iris system can or can't do. One thing I have said to other is even though there is a chance this iris system is crap (first time around you just never know) at least with the JVC stuff you'll still end up with class leading contrast with it off. We've seen so many projector manufacturers claim obscene contrast ratios using dynamic systems that don't even approach a fraction of the claimed contrast leaving you with mid grays as black at best. In the case of the JVCs you'd end up with the best contrast performance of any projectors on the market, even with the dynamic system off. I am really hoping this system finally allows you to wring out every bit of the contrast potential of their projectors while still managing some bright images, but I never set my hopes too high for a first generation dynamic system.
 

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JVC seems to specialize in obtaining improved performance in a multitude of areas each year. Some might consider this as great and others might question why the couldn't get it right the first time. Sight even think they could but need to hold it back to provide for improvement and next year to act as an incentive to upgrade yearly.


I think in the area of e-shift and II technology, there is a tremendous learning curve and JVC on a yearly basis is not holding back anything. No matter how good the II is this year, like Chris I would expect even better performance next year.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/1040_40#post_23854598


JVC seems to specialize in obtaining improved performance in a multitude of areas each year. Some might consider this as great and others might question why the couldn't get it right the first time. Sight even think they could but need to hold it back to provide for improvement and next year to act as an incentive to upgrade yearly.


I think in the area of e-shift and II technology, there is a tremendous learning curve and JVC on a yearly basis is not holding back anything. No matter how good the II is this year, like Chris I would expect even better performance next year.
One might argue that what needs refining in the II implementation are the algorithms that make all the hardware pieces work together. Algorithms are implemented in firmware so it would seem possible to improve II performance via a firmware update....without waiting until next year.



hahaha - what an insane thought......
 

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Slap yourself hard boy. Its JVC and they historically have not done that. I will take any bet that next year's models will have what I will call a MII. No prizes for guessing what the M stands for. The year after it will be an EMII.
 

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***** slapping in progress......
:)
 

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So no one really knows when this new line will debut hey right? I'm planning on building a theater in my new house (we move in 2 weeks) and I'm currently stuck on what to do as far as buying a projector... I want JVC but I don't want to wait months... I want to have this theater finished in a month or so and I don't care all that much about 4 since there isn't any content or for it right now anyway...


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

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Historically, JVC makes an initial shipment for the US by Nov 30. Its usually a small shipment that hits the distributor AVAD on the west coast and shows up in east coast AVADS about one week latter. Usually supply catches up with demand by about Xmas time. Sometimes it takes until mid January. I think this year will not huge numbers year for JVC. So if you preorder now you might be able to snatch one in time to meet your schedule.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrt2  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/1050#post_23855833


So no one really knows when this new line will debut hey right? I'm planning on building a theater in my new house (we move in 2 weeks) and I'm currently stuck on what to do as far as buying a projector... I want JVC but I don't want to wait months... I want to have this theater finished in a month or so and I don't care all that much about 4 since there isn't any content or for it right now anyway...


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

In our hands the first week of December. In customers hands the second week of December. That is the current time frame. Call us for pricing and to get on the list.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/1050#post_23855852


Historically, JVC makes an initial shipment for the US by Nov 30. Its usually a small shipment that hits the distributor AVAD on the west coast and shows up in east coast AVADS about one week latter. Usually supply catches up with demand by about Xmas time. Sometimes it takes until mid January. I think this year will not huge numbers year for JVC. So if you preorder now you might be able to snatch one in time to meet your schedule.

For the last three years in a row, JVC has gotten nearly all (more than enough to fill preorders) of our projectors to us before Christmas.
 
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