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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
 http://www.broadcom.com/cgi-bin/pr/p...pr_id=PR010620


Rather than two HD signals per transponder this new development allows DISH to squeeze three HD signals on the same transponder with no degradation in picture quality or link budget. The only problem is that we will all have to upgrade our 6000's (according to Mark Jackson) and the 5000 's (I think) will be rendered obsolete, unable to receive this new format because the demod cannot be upgraded.


The Broadcom breakthrough centers on using 8psk instead of QPSK modulation and a higher level of error correction (turbo FEC).
 

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Hmmmmm . . . this will be interesting indeed. . . . On one hand, the possibility of more channels . . . on the other, obsoleting 2 very important pieces of hardware (I realize that the 6000 can be upgraded, but if I have to upgrade it to work, then it is rendered obsolete in its present form). Also, I didn't read anything about the 5000 being obsoleted at all. The 5000 also has an expansion port if I'm not mistaken, and I'm sure that (if they wanted to) they could make something that will allow the 5000 to work as well.


It also doesn't mention what happens if u don't upgrade. Will you still be able to watch HD from dish, or would u NEED this if they do a cutover.


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STOP DVI/HDCP!!!!!
 

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I think this may obsolete the 5000. I believe the 5000 only has one port and if that's used for the HDTV modulator, there's no place to add another adapter for this new modulation scheme, unless Dish comes out with a new adapter that will do both, and I doubt this would happen.


The 6000 could be updated with an adapter that would plug into the second expansion port.
 

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If I am not mistaken it has 2 ports actually which is why I think it won't be obsoleted. One port can ONLY fit the HDTV modulator, and the other seems smaller. I could be wrong though.


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Dish is supposed to be launching another satellite later this year. This should open up some bandwidth and hopefully reduce the level of compression. You are not going to build a customer base by making them purchase expensive equipment on a regular basis.



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-Glenn
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Unfortunately both DISH and DirecTV are about to have a major bandwidth crunch when the "must carry" rules for DBS go into effect for DBS local-into-local. Although they are both launching new birds . Bandwidth will continue to be in short supply and a competitive issue. Changing to 8psk for the relatively small number of people that have 6000's with a low cost upgrade module will give DISH a major competitive advantage. Mark Jackson would not have been quoted in this press release unless this was in the works.




[This message has been edited by DougTalley (edited 08-12-2001).]
 

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The post above addressed 61.5 & 148. I doubt Dish will be using those sats for locals (at least non-HD locals) again.


Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
What they would probably do, once this new module is available, is continue to offer the existing HD feeds in the QPSK format, but all new HD feeds would be in the 8psk mode. This would give people an incentive to upgrade. Once some time had passed, they would eventually transmit all HD in 8psk.


The 5000 (when used with DST -51 / HD1000 digital VCR) has been a problem for DISH and the HD copyright holders. What they could do is offer to swap obsolete 5000's for 6000's, or at least make the 6000's available at a deep discount to 5000 owners.
 

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DISH has a large amount of unused bandwidth on its 61.5 and 148 degree satellites. They won't be considering this technology until that bandwidth is exhausted.


 

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Wait a minute, I've got my father convinced to go for the 6000 and now he may have to upgrade it as soon as he gets it?! He's going to flip when I tell him and will just cancel the whole deal. This won't effect me, because I have not lived at home since I was a kid, but he was so close to getting rid of cable, which he hates, but my mom, his wife, will never ever allow this if he just has to spend more money down the road.
 

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I'm obviously missing something here...


I bought my 6000 to do HD from Dish Network. If it needs an "upgrade" because THEY choose to change formats, then that's their problem (read: expense) and not mine. I'm not panicing. It's probably a ways off anyway but I seriously doubt that we'll have to pay for these "upgrades" at least not if Dish has any business sense.





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Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket!
 

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Having been a Dish subscriber for several years now, I feel confident in predicting that Dish will want to start using the new format as soon as possible, but only on new channels.


Charlie will than say there is no need to upgrade your equipment unless you want these new channels, if you are happy with the services you are currently receiving the upgrade is unnecessary. The early upgraders will have to pay the entire expense for the upgrade. New subscribers will automatically get the upgraded equipment.


After several months when Dish figures everyone who will pay full price for the upgrade has done so, they will make a special offer, 1/2 price upgrade with a 1 year commitment to the new channels.


Again,once nearly everyone has upgraded, Dish may finally offer the upgrade for free (with a 1 year continuation of services) while announcing that in 30-60 days you will no longer be able to receive HBO and Showtime in HD without the upgrade.
 

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Interesting hypothesis based on the Dish 500 experience, but it has no relevance to available capacity on 61.5 & 148. I can't see it happening until there is a need.


Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
First of all nobody should panic over this announcement or feel that somehow they made the wrong choice when they purchased a 6000. On the contrary, here are some reasons they should be happy that they have a 6000.


1. The conversion to 8psk should be phased-in in baby steps over a long time frame (maybe 18 months).


2. There should be a long period of simulcasting when both QPSK and 8psk will be available.


3. The upgrade 8psk module should be fairly inexpensive (possibly in the $99 region). The installation will be trivial.


4. Going to this technology will allow DISH to be the undisputed HD leader and offer more HD content than DirecTV. DirecTV cannot easily take advantage of this development because their HD receiver base is not upgradeable.


The satellites that DISH has at 148 and 61.8 cost the same to launch and operate as their full-conus birds. In order for them to get a return on their investment, they must fully utilize all of the bandwidth on these satellites. With the advent of must carry for local -into -local, DISH will be putting lots of new local content on these satellites. That is why they were launched. HD at the present is not a moneymaker and will not be for sometime to come. Going to 8psk is really good news for us HD folks, because it allows DISH to give us what we want without eating up much more valuable bandwidth.
 

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Thanks for your post, Doug.


I was about to put off a 6000 receiver purchase but if, in your opinion (and it seems sound), the only upgrade will be a new module, I could handle a $99 outlay in the near-future.


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Jerry D. Turner
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DougTalley:
The satellites that DISH has at 148 and 61.8 ...
Do both these have the HDTV channels? The reason I ask is because I do not have a good view of 61.8 but I do have a clear view of 148. I'm thinking about getting a DISH 6000 to go with my Mits 55807 HDTV, but I want to make sure I'll be able to get most HDTV programming.

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DougTalley:
The two satellites 61.5 and 148 both carry similar HD content. The only difference is that 61.5 carries the east coast feeds while 148 carries the West coast feeds of HBO, Showtime and CBS.
Where did you get this information? It's almost completely incorrect. 61.5 and 148 both have the East feeds of Showtime HD and HBO HD. No west feeds of Showtime or HBO on either bird. 148 has CBS HD West. 61.5 has CBS HD East. 61.5 also has the HD demo channel which is not on 148.
 

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I would think both providers have a NextGen DBS box in technology development. DVI/FireWire outputs, MPEG4 decoding, more secure CAS (conditional access system), and not 8PSK chipsets.


DVI/Firewire is the one to be seen on a produciton box next.
 

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A 35% increase in bandwidth won't buy Dish very much if they're only going to convert the HD channels (all 5 of them). Converting to 8-PSK will be a painfully slow process, years off I imagine. Of course the article demonstrates that Broadcom wants to sell millions of their new chipset. MPEG-encoder manufacturers will stall this transition by helping sat. broadcasters make better use of their existing bandwidth. New satellites and spot beam technology will also thwart the obsolescence of the installed base of Dish receivers.


If they want to phase out hardware by going to 8-PSK, I agree with ADent. They'll go all-out with MPEG-4, which provides a four-fold improvement in video compression.


-Dylan
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry G:
Where did you get this information? It's almost completely incorrect. 61.5 and 148 both have the East feeds of Showtime HD and HBO HD. No west feeds of Showtime or HBO on either bird. 148 has CBS HD West. 61.5 has CBS HD East. 61.5 also has the HD demo channel which is not on 148.
What channel number is the CBS HD feeds on? I don't see it in my listing.

 
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