[Gorilla83]

Guys - have any of you seem these yet? I'm not seeing any detailed specs yet, but check these out:


I know of a few vendors that use the plate amp version with good success, but have not seen anyone mention the rack mounted versions just yet, which appear to be new:

http://www.speakerpower.net/


4000 x 2 high efficiency design for 2495 that operates on 120v power. Wonder how this stacks up to the lg amps?


They also have 6000 x 2 that runs on 240v.


Wonder if these are American made too. Fan noise?


Not cheap, but worth investigating. Still much cheaper than a real Lab.

 

[gpmbc]

I think the 4000 watt plate amp is the one used in the JTR cap s2 (tweaked of course). So they're probably good for the claims. Still, for the larger offerings 2 clones for less just would seem to hard to ignore. Now vs a real Lab, like you said probably a good value.

 

[Gorilla83]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc  /t/1449918/new-speakerpower-rack-mounted-subwoofer-amps#post_22789797


I think the 4000 watt plate amp is the one used in the JTR cap s2 (tweaked of course). So they're probably good for the claims. Still, for the larger offerings 2 clones for less just would seem to hard to ignore. Now vs a real Lab, like you said probably a good value.

I know it will be hard sell when one can pick up three Sanway (or similar) FP14000's for the same 2500. But for those not willing to accept the risk of the clone amps and/or do not agree with the whole patent violation whole deal, this seems like a better option than the LG 14's at 6500 a pop.

It would be cool to see built in DSP in these and/or a quiet fan option if they are noisy.

 

[Aaron Smith]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 

Guys - have any of you seem these yet? I'm not seeing any detailed specs yet, but check these out:
http://www.speakerpower.net/

4000 x 2 high efficiency design for 2495 that operates on 120v power. Wonder how this stacks up to the lg amps?

They also have 6000 x 2 that runs on 240v.

Wonder if these are American made too. Fan noise?

Not cheap, but worth investigating. Still much cheaper than a real Lab.

Yep, Seaton, JTR, and Danley are three companies well known to us that use Speakerpower amps. I believe they've been selling to the general public for nearly 2 years now...the ones offered to the general public are the 'stripper' models without DSP. The owner of the company spent 11 years at QSC as director of engineering and 7 years at Renkus-Heinz doing the same thing; nice pedigree. Great amps, but as gpmbc said, not exactly the kind of deal that we are used to.

I do believe these are made here in the good 'ol USA (seen it mentioned in a few prosound news news blurbs). The ones I've looked at didn't have a 'made in China' sticker anywhere on them.

 

[Stereodude]

Of course they take the most useful feature out of them (the DSP) when they sell them directly to consumers.


Although, I have it on good authority directly from an OEM user of them that the DSP is the SpeakerPower amps would not be feasible for DIY'ers to use. I did not get an explanation as to what aspect of programming or controlling the DSP made it effectively unusable for a DIY'er though.

 

[Gorilla83]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith  /t/1449918/new-speakerpower-rack-mounted-subwoofer-amps#post_22790155


Yep, Seaton, JTR, and Danley are three companies well known to us that use Speakerpower amps. I believe they've been selling to the general public for nearly 2 years now...the ones offered to the general public are the 'stripper' models without DSP. The owner of the company spent 11 years at QSC as director of engineering and 7 years at Renkus-Heinz doing the same thing; nice pedigree. Great amps, but as gpmbc said, not exactly the kind of deal that we are used to.

I do believe these are made here in the good 'ol USA (seen it mentioned in a few prosound news news blurbs). The ones I've looked at didn't have a 'made in China' sticker anywhere on them.

Agreed JTR and the like have been using the plate amps, but I have yet to see anyone mention the rack mounted versions which I why I posted here.

Hopefully they are USA made as well.

 

[N8DOGG]

Funk Audio is selling the same kinda of amp WITH the dsp for around 2200

 

[Gorilla83]



Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG  /t/1449918/new-speakerpower-rack-mounted-subwoofer-amps#post_22790769


Funk Audio is selling the same kinda of amp WITH the dsp for around 2200

Do they have other amps besides those listed on their site?

http://www.funkaudio.ca/Amplifiers.html


I didn't see anything quite this powerful, but man they sure do have some nice stuff.

 

[N8DOGG]

It's the 2.4KW version x 2 in a rack mountable chassis. I wasn't saying it's better or worst, just that it's also and option with the DSP and good power. It's the same power as the ones that power JTR's subs, not sure if they are speakerpower though. 2.4KW and 4KW burst with DSP.

 

[SpeakerPower]

Hi All. I am the owner of SpeakerPower. I just found this thread and thought I would answer a few questions.


Made in USA. Yes all assembly and test is in Santa Ana California. Some of my smaller amps use oem amp modules but in these high power sub amps every circuit board is assembled locally.


Low noise fans are available for noise sensitive applications. Also high noise, high output fans for pro sound users who want to wring every bit out of their subs doing electronic music shows.


DSP is not available in the amps for retail sale now. They have a analog sub bandpass filter which can be switched to flat if signal processing is done upstream. I don't think DSP is the "most useful feature" when for HT at least, most preamp processors have this built in. This amp is most useful when you need solid power to very low frequencies at high duty cycles.


Comparisons to other amps on the market must be done carefully since many amps have specs that are uhhh optimistic at best. Especially at low frequencies, some amps just don't hold up. I have benchmarked my amps against the real Lab Gruppen FP14000 and the Pascal Xpro "2400W" amps used by FW. Here is what I measured.


Pascal Xpro3 CH1 only 120VAC mains

1400W/4 1KHz 1% for 2 seconds, dropping to 223W after that

730W/4 40Hz 1% for 10 seconds dropping to 223W after that. Lower frequencies are even worse.


Lab Gruppen FP14000 120VAC mains

3000W/4 for 200 milliseconds dropping to 1500W/4.

4800W/2 for 80 milliseconds dropping to 1500W/2

Yes that's right. Milliseconds. Thousandths of a second.


SpeakerPower SP1-4000 120VAC mains

2400W/4 40Hz 1% indefinitely

4000W/2 40Hz for 4 seconds, dropping to 2000W/2


As you can see, almost all amps these days have a short term power which finds its way onto the spec sheet, and a long term power that you can't find anywhere. This is a valid design strategy, but any burst power spec shorter than 50ms at 40 Hz (2 cycles, sounds like a kick drum thump) is useless IMHO.


Thank you for your interest. Let me know if you have any other questions.


Brian Oppegaard

President

SpeakerPower Inc.
www.speakerpower.net

 

[N8DOGG]

A couple SP2-8000 would be something I'd love to get my hands on if my clones ever fail me.

So Brian, Funk audio uses the Pascal Xpro3?

The DSP is a nice but like you say, is really not needed in most situations. What is the warranty on the amps??

 

[Gorilla83]

Brian - Thanks for posting additional information regarding your amps. They do seem like a great product for DIY-ers such as ourselves looking for very potent amplifiers.


Do you have any details and additional information on the test including the Lab 14K's?

 

[popalock]

Great find Rilla!


Last I visited the SpeakerPower site (few months back) I didn't see these...

 

[Mark Seaton]

Hi guys,


As you can see, the SpeakerPower 2400 & 4kW amps are serious amplifiers. Jeff & I have both tested these amps against similarly powered amplifiers and the comparison is more appropriate to amplifiers like I-Tech's, the big QSC amp, and other such competitors when you are interested in useful low frequency delivery. As an example, while my own upgrade from the original 1000W ICEpower based SubMersive to the HP model is ~2.4x maximum power, but 5-7x the higher duration power. Of course that's harder to explain vs. "2400W!"

They do cost more, but if you have a problem, at worst you ship it back to southern CA and Brian's team takes care of you. For DIY use, my suggestion to Brian was to look at adding a MiniDSP to the front end with appropriate gain and clipping points.


Brian, I didn't see it mentioned above, but am I correct that the fan only kicks on beyond a temperature threshold, so at idle or low level, it is silent?

 

[N8DOGG]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton  /t/1449918/new-speakerpower-rack-mounted-subwoofer-amps#post_22863865


Hi guys,


As you can see, the SpeakerPower 2400 & 4kW amps are serious amplifiers. Jeff & I have both tested these amps against similarly powered amplifiers and the comparison is more appropriate to amplifiers like I-Tech's, the big QSC amp, and other such competitors when you are interested in useful low frequency delivery. As an example, while my own upgrade from the original 1000W ICEpower based SubMersive to the HP model is ~2.4x maximum power, but 5-7x the higher duration power. Of course that's harder to explain vs. "2400W!"

They do cost more, but if you have a problem, at worst you ship it back to southern CA and Brian's team takes care of you. For DIY use, my suggestion to Brian was to look at adding a MiniDSP to the front end with appropriate gain and clipping points.


Brian, I didn't see it mentioned above, but am I correct that the fan only kicks on beyond a temperature threshold, so at idle or low level, it is silent?

The minidsp is a good idea. Those knuckle heads just need to make a proper XLR version. I've seen a 500 watt SP but those big ones look pretty sweet. I've love to see how one performs vs the fp14 clones (in real time, not on paper of course)

 

[Stereodude]



Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakerPower  /t/1449918/new-speakerpower-rack-mounted-subwoofer-amps#post_22860826


I don't think DSP is the "most useful feature" when for HT at least, most preamp processors have this built in. This amp is most useful when you need solid power to very low frequencies at high duty cycles.

Sorry, but I don't exactly see how you can make that statement. The most unique features the OEM SpeakerPower amps have over pretty much any other amp in the DIY space is the tightly integrated DSP. The integrated limiting, EQ, Filters, etc. We can get high power pro amps with big output from companies like QSC. But they lack any sort of customizable current and voltage limiting to protect a driver from the careless guest or relative with their hands on the volume knob (unless the amp, driver, and enclosure are very carefully matched). Sure you can slap a MiniDSP in the system and use it for EQ, HPF, LT, etc (assuming you can set it up to not clip the signal chain which is a whole other problem), but it can't protect the a driver like your OEM products do.


While you see the power output as the selling feature, I don't see it. The DIY crowd chases cheap power. Look at how popular the Behriger and the Sanway Lab Gruppen clones are. Your plate amps don't deliver there except perhaps the biggest 4kW model which is more rare air. You amps could market themselves in how polished and idiot proof they can make a DIY creation which is why I don't see why you felt the need to remove perhaps the most compelling and market differentiating feature of your amps from your non OEM customers.

 

[DS-21]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude  /t/1449918/new-speakerpower-rack-mounted-subwoofer-amps/0_100#post_22865574


While you see the power output as the selling feature, I don't see it. The DIY crowd chases cheap power. Look at how popular the Behriger and the Sanway Lab Gruppen clones are. Your plate amps don't deliver there except perhaps the biggest 4kW model which is more rare air. You amps could market themselves in how polished and idiot proof they can make a DIY creation which is why I don't see why you felt the need to remove perhaps the most compelling and market differentiating feature of your amps from your non OEM customers.

The Berries are one thing, but most people don't have the appetite for needless risk that using the counterfeit Lab Gruppens requires. (And they have more honor than to knowingly purchase counterfeit product.)


The power, efficiency, and general "doing things right-ness" (NRTL safety certification, etc.) are all big selling points for this amp. I wish SpeakerPower the best with it. (Though I won't be buying one, simply because my ElectroVoice CPS-8.5 meets the needs of my multisub system, and has the same virtues as the SpeakerPower amps but with more channels and less power per channel.)

 

[chargedmr2]



Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakerPower  /t/1449918/new-speakerpower-rack-mounted-subwoofer-amps#post_22860826


Hi All. I am the owner of SpeakerPower. I just found this thread and thought I would answer a few questions.


Made in USA. Yes all assembly and test is in Santa Ana California. Some of my smaller amps use oem amp modules but in these high power sub amps every circuit board is assembled locally.


Low noise fans are available for noise sensitive applications. Also high noise, high output fans for pro sound users who want to wring every bit out of their subs doing electronic music shows.


DSP is not available in the amps for retail sale now. They have a analog sub bandpass filter which can be switched to flat if signal processing is done upstream. I don't think DSP is the "most useful feature" when for HT at least, most preamp processors have this built in. This amp is most useful when you need solid power to very low frequencies at high duty cycles.


Comparisons to other amps on the market must be done carefully since many amps have specs that are uhhh optimistic at best. Especially at low frequencies, some amps just don't hold up. I have benchmarked my amps against the real Lab Gruppen FP14000 and the Pascal Xpro "2400W" amps used by FW. Here is what I measured.


Pascal Xpro3 CH1 only 120VAC mains

1400W/4 1KHz 1% for 2 seconds, dropping to 223W after that

730W/4 40Hz 1% for 10 seconds dropping to 223W after that. Lower frequencies are even worse.


Lab Gruppen FP14000 120VAC mains

3000W/4 for 200 milliseconds dropping to 1500W/4.

4800W/2 for 80 milliseconds dropping to 1500W/2

Yes that's right. Milliseconds. Thousandths of a second.


SpeakerPower SP1-4000 120VAC mains

2400W/4 40Hz 1% indefinitely

4000W/2 40Hz for 4 seconds, dropping to 2000W/2


As you can see, almost all amps these days have a short term power which finds its way onto the spec sheet, and a long term power that you can't find anywhere. This is a valid design strategy, but any burst power spec shorter than 50ms at 40 Hz (2 cycles, sounds like a kick drum thump) is useless IMHO.


Thank you for your interest. Let me know if you have any other questions.


Brian Oppegaard

President

SpeakerPower Inc.
www.speakerpower.net

Would there be a noticeable advantage from using the SP1-4000 to drive a single LMS 5400 (sealed in 3 cu ft) for home theater use as compared to the Pascal amps you mentioned above. On paper I see the substantial difference you point out, but what would the real life differences look like?

 

[Stereodude]



Quote:
Originally Posted by chargedmr2  /t/1449918/new-speakerpower-rack-mounted-subwoofer-amps#post_22867203


Would there be a noticeable advantage from using the SP1-4000 to drive a single LMS 5400 (sealed in 3 cu ft) for home theater use as compared to the Pascal amps you mentioned above. On paper I see the substantial difference you point out, but what would the real life differences look like?

Well that depends on the recovery profile / characteristics of the amplifier and how you're using it. Unfortunately Brian didn't list and recovery information for any of the amps.

 

[FOH]

this is an edit, as the previous post got away unintended

"I don't think DSP is the "most useful feature" when for HT at least, most preamp processors have this built in. This amp is most useful when you need solid power to very low frequencies at high duty cycles."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude  /t/1449918/new-speakerpower-rack-mounted-subwoofer-amps#post_22865574


Sorry, but I don't exactly see how you can make that statement. The most unique features the OEM SpeakerPower amps have over pretty much any other amp in the DIY space is the tightly integrated DSP.

I believe you're both likely right. Brian doesn't think the most useful aspect is the DSP. Stereodude, I agree that the DSP is the most unique feature.


Ever since I stumbled across these amps a few years ago, I thought the entire on-board DSP concept was ideally suited for the DIY crowd. Not as much for subs, as I thought they'd be ideal for mains. For a sub system, I believe outboad DSP is best. A more global approach, akin to a 2x4, or a 4x8 processor.


I've been an audio enthusiast, and a hifi loud-speaker fanatic ever since the 70's. A few years ago I found myself in a search for new LCR mains. In addition to being a longtime enthusiast, I'm also coming from a FOH pro-audio background, with a bit of studio exposure too. Stereodude's right, availing a high quality, multi-way, programable DSP, high power plate or "torpedo" amp for the DIY crowd would be fantastic. Like everyone, I know that an active design can have inherent advantages over other approaches, and that's the direction I wanted to pursue for my new LCRs, .... and I was considering a DIY project.


Subs, I could do. A simple, yet robust IB system was designed and eventually pulled off. Now I fully regognize that a DIY mains effort is one thing, but properly measuring, designing, and executing a multi-way active X-over isn't a trivial exercise. So after much experimentation and istening, everything pointed to Seaton's Catalyst, which is the avenue I ultiately took. The big Catalysts are many things, but the essence of what you get is Mark's outstanding design choices, and optimization skill-set and prowess. This, is the ideal execution of the high power/on-board DSP plate amplifier.


Conversely, for subwoofers, I think that the DSP component is optimal as a centralized hub, in a multi-element sub system (ie, multiple discrete processing channels, multiple amplifier channels, multiple subwoofer locations, and lastly multiple locations). Sure, perhaps a single powered sub is best executed with onboard LT'ing, general EQ'ing, limiting, etc. But if I was designing a DIY multi-sub system, the power and contouring would be performed outboard.



Stereodude makes some solid points. The DIY crowd chases cheap power, ... and these days it is plentiful. But back to the specs, and spec'manship stuff and exagerated numbers, real-world power, etc. Nothing seems to be as good as actual empirical, in use measurments. Due to the incredible transient demands that's associated with a great deal of the material we encounter, I think everbody would agree that an ideal amp is one with phenomenal peak capability, in addition to the normal, long term power that is needed for a given platback level.


Good amplifier testing, is such a hard thing to come across these days.



Thanks