[Misplaced Texan]

Hi,


Need to replace my 10yr old kenwood 8" sw. Budget is between 200-300. Use is for movies in my home theater mainly. It is a big room (22ft wide x 33ft long) so I think I need a 12" bass.


I am leaning towards the Polk psw125, it's like 250 and I am really happy with my Polk center.


What's the best bang for the buck here?


Thanks!

 

[Misplaced Texan]

Oh... One more quick note: I love bass and can't say am a good neighbor..

 

[matrixj3]

Hey Texan, that room is pretty big...can you up the budget to at least 1000?


Btw...waiting for some rain down here in Corpus. ;-)

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

With that much area to fill, I'd trade off extension and maximize output capabilities. Look for something strong down to 32-35hz but has good output above that. Also, if you can place the subwoofer in a corner, preferably a corner near the seating positions that may help too.


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

 

[Misplaced Texan]

Yikes! 1k may be above my budget... If 300 is not realistic then what choices do I have? I can place the sw close to the seating area...


Yeah - I do love my big man-cave!


Bump! Please help.

 

[mannoiaj]

maybe up it to $400 range and get a nice output 12"er and then when you have the funds down the road get another of the same sub for duals.

 

[Archaea]

you aren't a nice neighbor with a 8" sub? lol


I'm with the other guys here, you won't get deep bass at that pricepoint for so big a room, so you should concentrate on output if your budget remains lean.


If you were more or less happy with your 8" sub, but want more then that Klipsch rw-12d currently on 1/2 price sale for $350 might be your ticket -- it is loudest at 50hz (115dB), but does alright for movies overall.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1354213


Otherwise if you want the best coverage in your room (2 subs will make for smoother FR in most rooms) and if your primary purpose is movie watching you might pick up a couple of BIC F12's for about $180 each and still stay in your budget. The BIC F12 pair will do more for your movie watching than a single polk will by a long shot.

http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F1...3620175&sr=8-1

 

[eljaycanuck]

That is a huge room. My HT room is ~15' x 30' x 7.5' and I'm running dual 18" subs! If you can't make it up to $1,000, consider shopping the gently-used market.


For under $600, you should be able to get:

- an SVS PB12-NSD;

- an SVS PB10-NSD;

- a Paradigm Servo-15 v1;

- a Paradigm PW-2200 v1 (maybe a v2, if you're lucky); and

- plenty of other subs from other manufacturers.

 

[Misplaced Texan]

Ok so great point I had not considered. If I run dual subs, let's say 2 x 12", what are the tradeoffs versus having only one larger sub? Is installation just splitting the RCA cable to un to both (Y)? Am I over my head on this one.


Buying 2 180 subs is tempting I must say.

 

[Archaea]

yes you just use a y splitter at the receiver and run two cables.


The CLEAR benefit is that you get much smoother/even subwoofer sound smoothly filling your room --- that's pretty much universal - regardless of room.


The negative is that you will have two lesser capable subs, and typically the first thing to go with cheaper subs is the ability to produce 20hz and below or even 30hz and below frequencies at reasonable levels.


I recently heard one BIC F12 (corner loaded in a small unsealed room open to the rest of a small 1,000^2 foot house) and I'll be darned if it did'nt sound surprisingly good --- ESPECIALLY for ~$180 shipped. I'm no stranger to good subs either. At the time I had two PB13 Ultras ($1800 each new) and now I have two JTR Captivators. The BIC F12 didn't hit super low, but it was plenty loud and still had enough excursion and depth to make the movie watching quite fun. I've heard quite a few cheaper subs over the years and none held a candle to the BIC F12 for that bare bottom pricerange. There is a incredibly long BIC F12 thread in this forum if you want to read other's opinions. Two of those subs only hits about $360 shipped. You'll have smooth response in your room, still have plenty of volume and only be lacking the really low bass which you won't find in your huge room without spending significantly more money.

 

[Nosferatu]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Misplaced Texan /forum/post/20835836


Ok so great point I had not considered. If I run dual subs, let's say 2 x 12", what are the tradeoffs versus having only one larger sub? Is installation just splitting the RCA cable to un to both (Y)? Am I over my head on this one.


Buying 2 180 subs is tempting I must say.

Plus tuning a sub is much harder when you have two. You'd be really going over budget then because you'd likely want to invest in something like an SMS-1 by Velodyne. Anyways, if you go to the thread that Archea linked to you'll hear my $0.02 regarding sub options.

Good luck in your search...just I feel you will have to up your budget considering your goal and room size.

Just to give you an idea my room is 28 x 14 approximately and had to spend over $500 to get good bass in there. My parents have a larger room than that plus it's an open area into a kitchen and dining room...they spend about $1000 to fill that room up nicely with bass.

 

[Archaea]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu /forum/post/20836017


Plus tuning a sub is much harder when you have two. You'd be really going over budget then because you'd likely want to invest in something like an SMS-1 by Velodyne. Anyways, if you go to the thread that Archea linked to you'll hear my $0.02 regarding sub options.

Good luck in your search...just I feel you will have to up your budget considering your goal and room size.

Just to give you an idea my room is 28 x 14 approximately and had to spend over $500 to get good bass in there. My parents have a larger room than that plus it's an open area into a kitchen and dining room...they spend about $1000 to fill that room up nicely with bass.

Tuning is much harder with two?


This fellows scenario doesn't look to be tuned. I've never heard a single room or enviornment where I prefered a single sub over dual subs. Without tuning two subs will sound better, smoother, and 50% to 100% (3-6dB) louder in the same room every time -- assuming equadistant placement from the listening position.


I've owned these four pairs of subs: (among many other singles)

Dual Infinity HPS-1000

Dual Jamo D7 Subs

Dual SVS PB13 Ultras

Dual JTR Captivators


In every instance two subs sounded better than one - no tuning required... Noticeably better


Keep in mind his claimed budget is $200 - $300 for a huge space. A single $350 sub, even of a higher class like one of the used suggestions is going to have nulls/modes like crazy in that big a space. Two BIC F12s would solve that problem. BIC F12's aren't the end all sub by any means, but they are very good for the price -- and highly recommended in these forums. I didn't believe how reasonably good a $200 sub could sound until I heard that one in the last couple months at a friends house. (he bought it based on the BIC F12 thread and all the positive feed back in that thread)


I would also agree --- as I mentioned earlier --- that uping the budget would be advisable, but if it's not possible - I suggest two BIC F12s and am sure he'll be plenty happy with preformance to cost ratio.


Our back and forth in the other thread was getting tiresome for a couple folk so I didn't respond to your last reply, but you should note that while ULF sub 20hz frequencies are awesome and I agree in every way well worth the cost, you can't get to them at any volumes that matter worth a darn without spending a ton of money in a situation with that much airspace. Also sub 20hz frequencies aren't required to enjoy a subwoofer (though I really do prefer them myself). The Yamaha CW218V placed very well in our movie competition at the KC sub meet despite not being able to much of anything but distort at frequencies below 30hz. It placed fourth of eight subs for movies, ahead of the HSU VTF-15, ahead of the SVS PB12+, ahead of the Jamo D7 --- according to our collective votes. Now also note that the SVS PB12 + was ranked 3rd for depth of note during controlled music listening collectively by the group -- it was the only sub during the day that gave me a tactile feeling/clothes vibration feeling besides the number 1 and number two slot subs. Despite the SVS PB13 placing 3rd in the deep notes category, it placed sixth of eight subs in the movie watching vote?!?!?! The reason was the extra headroom of the other subs. Given two subs playing at different SPL levels, most people will choose the louder sub as the preferable sub --- disregarding most of the other valid measurements like flat frequency response, or ultra deep hz reproduction. See my signature link for details, votes, charts etc...

 

[Misplaced Texan]

Looks like I gotta up the budget then... and get 2 subs. Problem solved.


Now the real issue and perhaps more difficult, talking to the wife..


Thanks for all your help guys! This amateur audiophile with a huge room (everything is in Texas) sure appreciates it!

 

[Nosferatu]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea /forum/post/20836060


Two BIC F12s would solve that problem. BIC F12's aren't the end all sub by any means, but they are very good for the price -- and highly recommended in these forums.

I've never heard this sub before but I checked out your Amazon link. Seems like a decent deal. You should recommend it to the guy in the other thread.

As for the two subs with tuning, I've found it a double edge sword in that w/o tuning you can have the two canceling each other out in certain frequencies but at the same time you can help minimize those null spaces you were just mentioning.


Anyways, good luck to the OP we're all here to help if ya need it. Just remember what I said earlier, go for the highest amount you can afford.

I would almost recommend getting one sub at that amount and then save up for a second identical one.

Lastly, Archea I read that thread when you first posted it...sounds like it was a fun time at that KC meet.

 

[Archaea]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu /forum/post/20836160


I've never heard this sub before but I checked out your Amazon link. Seems like a decent deal. You should recommend it to the guy in the other thread.

As for the two subs with tuning, I've found it a double edge sword in that w/o tuning you can have the two canceling each other out in certain frequencies but at the same time you can help minimize those null spaces you were just mentioning.


Anyways, good luck to the OP we're all here to help if ya need it. Just remember what I said earlier, go for the highest amount you can afford.

I would almost recommend getting one sub at that amount and then save up for a second identical one.

Lastly, Archea I read that thread when you first posted it...sounds like it was a fun time at that KC meet.

I've never heard the BIC F12 and the Klipsch rw-12d side by side. I've got to believe/hope the Klipsch would be noticably better. If not then all those $700 dollar subs in the Sound and Vision shootout have the BIC F12 nipping at their heels. I plan to try to hear the BIC F12 and Klipsch RW-12D side by side within the next month or two in the same room, same equipment and hopefully with enough different people to put the question to bed in a future thread here on avsforum. My brother has the Klipsch, purchased for $350 late last year, my friend recently bought that BIC F12 off amazon. My brother lives in an apt, so he's never stretched that Klipsch's legs when I've been around. But I have heard that BIC F12 going full bore at my buddies house and you could easily hear it outside the closed house and still quite loud when we did a courtesy walk around his place while the movie was on to see what the neighbors were hearing at the yards edge. Hopefully they'll both agree to come over to my place for a go round of testing similar to what we did at the KC meet. I may involve an Onkyo HTIB type sub another friend has in this roundup as well so we can kinda encompass a typical spattering of available and typical cheaper subs. The Onkyo sub is going to get destroyed because even in a small room it is not impressive.

 

[Misplaced Texan]

Bought the bic 12. Don't get this the wrong way guys, but this advice is coming from serious audiophiles

I think I'll be pleased. Not even sure I can hear below 30hz.


Now gotta save up for my 2 front speakers!

 

[Nosferatu]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Misplaced Texan /forum/post/20839065


Bought the bic 12. Don't get this the wrong way guys, but this advice is coming from serious audiophiles

I think I'll be pleased. Not even sure I can hear below 30hz.


Now gotta save up for my 2 front speakers!

Congrats! Let us know how it turns out!

As for being a "serious audiophile" I'm hardly that. I'm somewhat on a budget myself until I'm done with residency. Click my sig you'll see my "rig" it's not too insane...maybe compared to my real world friends but not compared to others on AVSForums.

 

[Archaea]

Buy that second f12 Texan. With as big of a room as you have, your going to enjoy the experience that much more.

 

[bigyela]

damn that's a big room, almost 6k cubed!


get 8 of those bic 12's and stack 2 in each corner. joke, kind of

 

[Misplaced Texan]

Hey Guys,


Got the BIC12 and hooked it up. Nice recommendation.


Having a little hard time setting the room to my taste, maybe I should just let audyssey do the work, but I kinda like doing this..


- I have to turn down the volume of the SW and the crossover or otherwise it'll rumble quite a lot while it plays. I like bass, but its more the tight thump that a rumbling that just seems to be in the background. Is this a volume, Hz or location play?


- The reason I did not want to buy 2 of this is that now I have another huge gap in my sound system. I am slowly replacing old kenwood speaker (10yrs old to be exact). Now I have a CS10 center (which I really like), the SW but the two front speakers are still not replaced. They are book shelf style speakers so kinda small for the room. However I think I am hearing an evident gap in the room as the center and SW are quite good but it feels like there is a gap between 100hz and mid tones. I think this is where the front are supposed to kick in. Am I mistaken? Do i need to buy the matching polk for the CS10?


Please dont badger me about this combo, I have 3 hobbies/passions and not enough time/money to do any of them right..


Please help. Thanks!!